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Post by orion09 on Aug 26, 2021 18:51:23 GMT -5
When are we going to splash in on a top international player like we did Moncada? I would expect it to be on a case-by-case basis like all players, but based on the last few years personally I wouldn’t expect it. They’ve been doing, for lack of a better word, quantity over quality and it’s been really working out for them. Is it? It seems to me like the shotgun approach is leading to a lot of depth in the system, a lot of potential 1.5-2.5 WAR players. Obviously not a bad thing. But I don’t see the next Bogaerts/Iglesias/Devers/Moncada in the system. Bogaerts had the lowest bonus (400k), but they were all basically big ticket signings. It’s a shame we’ll never know what Daniel Flores would have done. He’s also the last big ticket guy they signed.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 26, 2021 19:04:48 GMT -5
I would expect it to be on a case-by-case basis like all players, but based on the last few years personally I wouldn’t expect it. They’ve been doing, for lack of a better word, quantity over quality and it’s been really working out for them. Is it? It seems to me like the shotgun approach is leading to a lot of depth in the system, a lot of potential 1.5-2.5 WAR players. Obviously not a bad thing. But I don’t see the next Bogaerts/Iglesias/Devers/Moncada in the system. Bogaerts had the lowest bonus (400k), but they were all basically big ticket signings. It’s a shame we’ll never know what Daniel Flores would have done. He’s also the last big ticket guy they signed. Bleis
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 26, 2021 20:36:49 GMT -5
Guess it does happen more often now. Interesting. Although my guess is that part happens before we know about it typically (although obviously not always). I'd guess that the most common reason for it is probably kids who either grow less or more than expected which is normally before they would hit most people in the states' radar. That being said, those ripple effects can cause some deal-changing for other prospects - like the Yankees seeing the strength/power Dominguez added and then having to process out this other prospect. Guessing how young teenagers (and younger apparently) are going to turn out physically cannot be a very exact science for international scouts.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 26, 2021 22:14:08 GMT -5
The younger you are, the further away from the majors you are, the more that can go right/wrong.
We’re talking about teenagers who often would be sophomores/juniors in high school when they sign.
It’s what makes the international pipeline so intriguing to me, there’s so much to dream on with these guys. It’s like heroine for prospect loving folks. This is why I get excited every time the Sox go heavy on quantity I’m the market, there’s just a much higher chance of striking gold with an off the radar name (although the hit rate overall is going to be lower).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 27, 2021 9:40:55 GMT -5
A few assorted thoughts/reminders that are probably in order:
1) The IFA signing structure has changed so rapidly that it's folly to compare the current classes to anything before 2017. In the last CBA, you went nuts one year and sat out the next two. Prior, you just gave out as much money as you wanted. There is now a hard cap, and in this class, you couldn't trade for more cap space either.
2) Pre-signing rankings of IFAs are kind of nonsense. That's why BA stopped doing them, instead just going strictly by signing bonus. We know VERY little about these kids. There are probably a handful of Dominguez-esque studs in each class and beyond that it's silly to try and rank guys.
3) While the upside might seem better on big bonus guys (looking at MLB.com's rankings, Rodriguez, Luciano, Alvarez, Marte, and of course Dominguez all got 7 figures), that's not the only way to find a stud. After that top 5, you've got Keibert Ruiz who got $140k and Vidal Brujan who got $15k. Sixto Sanchez got $35k.
4) Regarding the temptation to say "it's been X years since" the Red Sox made a splash in IFA. It's too soon to know much about the 2018-202021 classes because of the lost season. In 2017 they signed three seven-figure guys, one of whom passed away and the other two whose stars have fallen hard. In 2016 they literally couldn't sign anyone and in 2015 they were limited, and then lost five guys they signed (including Simon Muzziotti, who'd be top 30 in this system right now, although he hasn't played this year apparently because of visa issues?). So yeah, it'd make sense they have not seemingly made a huge splash since 2014 - that was in part by design and in part because they didn't get a stud out of the Floreses (Flori?) and Danny Diaz.
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Post by ramireja on Aug 30, 2021 11:46:45 GMT -5
The potential to have both a Johanfran and a Johnfrank in the system is bonkers
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Post by jmei on Sept 13, 2021 11:00:00 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on Dec 2, 2021 13:14:50 GMT -5
Can we assume this upcoming signing period will be unaffected by the lockout since there is no involvement of the 40-man roster? That's my belief, but throwing it out there in case anyone knows otherwise.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 2, 2021 13:39:32 GMT -5
I think it's still on.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 2, 2021 14:34:21 GMT -5
Yeah the only stuff that gets frozen is 40-man roster stuff.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 3, 2021 13:12:54 GMT -5
The potential to have both a Johanfran and a Johnfrank in the system is bonkers Some sort of voodoo genius scouting strategy?
This from Eric Longenhagen's FG chat today:
Dave 1:09 I know it's coming out on Monday, but are there any top international prospects tied to the Red Sox? Eric A Longenhagen 1:09 Feyli Encarnacion and Fraymi De Leon, both for about 1mil
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 4, 2021 0:48:30 GMT -5
The potential to have both a Johanfran and a Johnfrank in the system is bonkers Some sort of voodoo genius scouting strategy?
This from Eric Longenhagen's FG chat today:
Dave 1:09 I know it's coming out on Monday, but are there any top international prospects tied to the Red Sox? Eric A Longenhagen 1:09 Feyli Encarnacion and Fraymi De Leon, both for about 1mil
Feyli- Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 60 | Run: 50 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55 De Leon-Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 4, 2021 13:06:47 GMT -5
Some sort of voodoo genius scouting strategy?
This from Eric Longenhagen's FG chat today:
Dave 1:09 I know it's coming out on Monday, but are there any top international prospects tied to the Red Sox? Eric A Longenhagen 1:09 Feyli Encarnacion and Fraymi De Leon, both for about 1mil
Feyli- Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 60 | Run: 50 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55 De Leon-Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50 De Leon video with scouting notes: www.mlb.com/es/video/top-int-l-prospects-de-leon-ss
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 4, 2021 13:10:27 GMT -5
Feyli- Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 60 | Run: 50 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55 De Leon-Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50 De Leon video with scouting notes: www.mlb.com/es/video/top-int-l-prospects-de-leon-ss vermontsox1 quoted Badler's write-ups of both guys in the Spring: forum.soxprospects.com/post/454280#30: Fraymi de Leon, SS, DR De Leon is one of the best defensive shortstops in the class. He's a quick-twitch athlete who is light on his feet with smooth actions and good body control at shortstop. De Leon has soft hands, a strong arm and good instincts, reading the ball well off the bat with a good internal clock for his age. All of that was true when de Leon stood out at an MLB Trainer Partnership Program showcase in Arizona in Nov. 2019 when was 5-foot-9, 130 lbs. While he's up to 5-foot-11, 157 pounds now, getting stronger will be crucial for his offensive development, as he's a switch-hitter with a repeatable swing but will need more strength to be able to do more damage. De Leon trains with Banana and is expected to sign with the Red Sox. #35: Freili Encarnacion, SS, DR The Red Sox are expected to sign Fraymi de Leon, a Dominican shortstop who sticks out for his glove. Encarnacion, another Dominican shortstop the Red Sox are expected to land, is an offensive-minded infielder. Encarnacion is strong for his age and drives the ball with impact for extra-base and over-the-fence juice. He's not a dead pull hitter either, with a sound approach for his age and the ability to hit to all fields. Encarnacion has trained as a shortstop, though he might end up sliding over to third base. Encarnacion trains with Nube. www.baseballamerica.com/rankings/2021-22-mlb-international-prospects-big-board/
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Post by soxaddict on Dec 4, 2021 19:42:15 GMT -5
The potential to have both a Johanfran and a Johnfrank in the system is bonkers Some sort of voodoo genius scouting strategy?
This from Eric Longenhagen's FG chat today:
Dave 1:09 I know it's coming out on Monday, but are there any top international prospects tied to the Red Sox? Eric A Longenhagen 1:09 Feyli Encarnacion and Fraymi De Leon, both for about 1mil
Does this mean the Sox are out on Johanfran Garcia previously tied to the Red Sox?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 4, 2021 21:22:32 GMT -5
Some sort of voodoo genius scouting strategy?
This from Eric Longenhagen's FG chat today:
Dave 1:09 I know it's coming out on Monday, but are there any top international prospects tied to the Red Sox? Eric A Longenhagen 1:09 Feyli Encarnacion and Fraymi De Leon, both for about 1mil
Does this mean the Sox are out on Johanfran Garcia previously tied to the Red Sox? I guess we'll find out Monday.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 5, 2021 0:44:54 GMT -5
No, I don't think it means they're out on Johanfran Garcia. Freili and Fraymi might come with the biggest bonuses though. For what its worth, Johanfran is Jhostynxon's younger brother.
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Post by borisman on Dec 5, 2021 10:25:27 GMT -5
From that jimoh video De Leon looks exactly like Jose Iglesias when he first signed with the Sox. Seems like he's a defensive wiz (well, "one of the best in this class") from the scouting report. I'll take half of Iglesias' glove/field/throw and see where the bats leads.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 5, 2021 14:23:21 GMT -5
From that jimoh video De Leon looks exactly like Jose Iglesias when he first signed with the Sox. Seems like he's a defensive wiz (well, "one of the best in this class") from the scouting report. I'll take half of Iglesias' glove/field/throw and see where the bats leads. I had that same thought about DeLeon’s hands being like Iglesias’
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 6, 2021 9:46:49 GMT -5
From that jimoh video De Leon looks exactly like Jose Iglesias when he first signed with the Sox. Seems like he's a defensive wiz (well, "one of the best in this class") from the scouting report. I'll take half of Iglesias' glove/field/throw and see where the bats leads. I had that same thought about DeLeon’s hands being like Iglesias’ Just to make sure I'm not missing something, we're talking about the video that's a bunch of Ken Burns'ed photos?
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 6, 2021 10:01:58 GMT -5
I had that same thought about DeLeon’s hands being like Iglesias’ Just to make sure I'm not missing something, we're talking about the video that's a bunch of Ken Burns'ed photos? No, there are others, with actual video. This is the best one, from Feb of 2020 when he was smaller: https://www.tiktok.com/@benbadler/video/6790429887866916101
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Post by borisman on Dec 6, 2021 10:25:15 GMT -5
I had that same thought about DeLeon’s hands being like Iglesias’ Just to make sure I'm not missing something, we're talking about the video that's a bunch of Ken Burns'ed photos? I was only remarking on the pics of De Leon and facially he looks like Iglesias when Sox signed him. I didn't see any actual video footage like the one jimoh posted. I don't know how he looks now at SS but Iglesias was such a natural and could've played defensively in the MLB by age 19. It's why I said I hope he is half as good as Candelita. It's a tough position to hit on so the more SS's we sign the merrier.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2021 10:31:43 GMT -5
De Leon was 5’9” 130 when scouts started watching him? Amazing. They are on these kids early. That’s a few days of celery away from runway model dimensions.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 6, 2021 11:07:47 GMT -5
Freili Encarnaction was added to Fangraph's international prospects board, with a 35+ FV: "Encarnacion has a big, projectable frame that lets you dream on his solid, if unspectacular current toolset."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 6, 2021 11:32:45 GMT -5
Just to make sure I'm not missing something, we're talking about the video that's a bunch of Ken Burns'ed photos? No, there are others, with actual video. This is the best one, from Feb of 2020 when he was smaller: https://www.tiktok.com/@benbadler/video/6790429887866916101 Nice. I don't see Iglesias at all but that's also like saying I don't see Ozzie Smith at all, so it's certainly not a knock. As for a facial resemblance, maybe squinting?
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