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4/5-4/7 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 7, 2021 16:39:20 GMT -5
Fair point but are they allowed to play today with 25? If so then it makes perfect sense. www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3508You're right. Rule REQUIRES 26. Unless unusual circumstances. Maybe they announced the option, but the transaction is recorded after today's game. No they optioned him after last night's game. They wouldn't have put it that way if he were still on the roster. Maybe it's this?
They can't call anyone up because nobody is hurt and the 10-day rule, but they also didn't NEED to option Houck.EDIT: Found it: www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/26-man-roster
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 7, 2021 16:41:28 GMT -5
For me this message board is exponentially more enjoyable after a Sox sweep. It’s wonderful when the sky is NOT falling on us. I’m not trying to give a subtle admonition to the more pessimistic among us. You gotta be you, and it’s a better board with a wide variety of opinions and points of view. I’m genuinely just saying it’s fun to be happy. The bats absolutely came to life and the pitching was fantastic. Great series! Nate Eovaldi has now had 6 straight great starts, interrupted by an injury and then an off-season. He really seems to have figured something out. Tomorrow I may run every conceivable stat on this stretch versus some appropriate baseline.
Meanwhile, YouTube TV, which I finally got working, costs $65 a month, and is a nearly complete cable replacement, with unlimited cloud DVR service. Small problem ... no NESN, which they apparently had but dropped. And no way to get it on FireTV.
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Post by foreverred9 on Apr 7, 2021 16:46:45 GMT -5
ERod heading off 3 games vs the Orioles and we avoid Means... if Richards isn’t awful again hopefully we’re looking at 6-3. Since I was vocal in the Orioles thread that the sweep was more about a historically bad outlier offensive series and they still feel like an 83-win team to me, I'll say the same thing today. They still look like an 83-win team, so I'm not jumping on that 6-3 train but let's try and get 2 back from the Orioles. Eric - if you're reading this thread, I'd be curious to see the expecting batting averages for this series vs. the Orioles series. It seems like things looked a lot more normal, if not above normal, from our batters.
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 7, 2021 17:19:35 GMT -5
ERod heading off 3 games vs the Orioles and we avoid Means... if Richards isn’t awful again hopefully we’re looking at 6-3. Since I was vocal in the Orioles thread that the sweep was more about a historically bad outlier offensive series and they still feel like an 83-win team to me, I'll say the same thing today. They still look like an 83-win team, so I'm not jumping on that 6-3 train but let's try and get 2 back from the Orioles. Eric - if you're reading this thread, I'd be curious to see the expecting batting averages for this series vs. the Orioles series. It seems like things looked a lot more normal, if not above normal, from our batters. I’m still with you on the mid 80’s win team. Just figure with our ace going in a 3 game series vs one of the worst teams in baseball, and ducking their ace, a sweep would be nice.
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Post by southernredsoxality on Apr 7, 2021 18:15:28 GMT -5
ERod heading off 3 games vs the Orioles and we avoid Means... if Richards isn’t awful again hopefully we’re looking at 6-3. 159-3.
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 7, 2021 18:19:17 GMT -5
This Rays team will probably be decent but I do think the Red Sox will finish ahead of them this year. After Glasnow (and I guess Yarborough), there are a lot of starting pitching question marks.
I mean, the fortunate Yankees get to go into the next series to feast on the corpses of Rich Hill, Chris Archer, and Michael Wacha. I foresee another sweep of the Rays.
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Post by manfred on Apr 7, 2021 18:38:38 GMT -5
For me this message board is exponentially more enjoyable after a Sox sweep. It’s wonderful when the sky is NOT falling on us. I’m not trying to give a subtle admonition to the more pessimistic among us. You gotta be you, and it’s a better board with a wide variety of opinions and points of view. I’m genuinely just saying it’s fun to be happy. The bats absolutely came to life and the pitching was fantastic. Great series! Nate Eovaldi has now had 6 straight great starts, interrupted by an injury and then an off-season. He really seems to have figured something out. Tomorrow I may run every conceivable stat on this stretch versus some appropriate baseline.
Meanwhile, YouTube TV, which I finally got working, costs $65 a month, and is a nearly complete cable replacement, with unlimited cloud DVR service. Small problem ... no NESN, which they apparently had but dropped. And no way to get it on FireTV. Eovaldi through two starts is the biggest positive so far. He looks like a real front-end starter. Smoltz was talking about his planes, I think. Eric can tell me if I’m wrong, but just from watching, I think Eovaldi is changing planes much more than he used to, between cutter, curve, and is it a split? Change? Dunno. His fastball is blistering — but just a touch straight — so he seems to be giving batters enough to think about that he’s never allowing them to get on the fastball. And... best of all.... he is fun to watch.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 7, 2021 19:19:49 GMT -5
Vazquez has been so impressive. Christian Vazquez is a professional hitter. He made himself that way just as did Bogaerts, who's in the same class. They worked to figure out how to hit to the opposite field first. Bogaerts did that for an entire year! Once that skill was in the toolkit they felt free to use their power stroke and club pitches middle in. It seemed like half the board was in on a Vazquez trade over the winter. Good defensive catchers aren't that common. Good hitting catchers are rare. To have a guy who is both on an ultra-reasonable contract is a gift, one I don't believe the team will be trading anytime soon. As his value on the field and apparently in the clubhouse soars, if anything they should rip the old one up and get him a new one that keeps him around longer. Catchers are in that rare group that age well. Years back, Yadier Molina made the point of asking people to be patient, that Vazquez would hit. He knew something we're all seeing now.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 7, 2021 19:49:44 GMT -5
I’ve always thought the Benny trade was a great deal but with the way Franchy is playing I think the rest of the crowd will come along very soon. I have no idea what the Royals were thinking. Franchy, Lee, and 2 PTBNL for Benny? Oof. I wrote this several days ago.... The whole trade with corresponding moves was Benintendi (saved $3.8 million) for Cordero (cost $800,000), Winckowski, three prospects (which I think will be better than people think as I do not buy into the RS thinking Cordero is any kind of long term answer), and the other $3 million saved and used for M. Gonzalez. The net effect is Benintendi for six players!! It would be assumed that the 3 yet named players are minor leaguers and have extended controllability as with Winckowski, and Cordero for two years controllability for Beni...... If Cordero turns out to be serviceable then the trade is a total steal. The Royals must have totally given up on Cordero to trade him, Lee, and two PTBN FOR Beni.
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Post by blizzards39 on Apr 7, 2021 19:50:22 GMT -5
This Rays team will probably be decent but I do think the Red Sox will finish ahead of them this year. After Glasnow (and I guess Yarborough), there are a lot of starting pitching question marks. I mean, the fortunate Yankees get to go into the next series to feast on the corpses of Rich Hill, Chris Archer, and Michael Wacha. I foresee another sweep of the Rays. Rays definaty have a lot of pitching on the shelf. Anderson is a huge loss. Chirinos and roe to. But let’s not forget there is another tier of prospects that they will eventually turn to this year including mcclanahan, patino, Honeywell, Macay and Baz
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 7, 2021 20:38:39 GMT -5
Rays definaty have a lot of pitching on the shelf. Anderson is a huge loss. Chirinos and roe to. But let’s not forget there is another tier of prospects that they will eventually turn to this year including mcclanahan, patino, Honeywell, Macay and Baz Wait, Chaz Roe is a huge loss? Am I on an alternate dimension?
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 7, 2021 22:25:36 GMT -5
ERod heading off 3 games vs the Orioles and we avoid Means... if Richards isn’t awful again hopefully we’re looking at 6-3. Since I was vocal in the Orioles thread that the sweep was more about a historically bad outlier offensive series and they still feel like an 83-win team to me, I'll say the same thing today. They still look like an 83-win team, so I'm not jumping on that 6-3 train but let's try and get 2 back from the Orioles. Eric - if you're reading this thread, I'd be curious to see the expecting batting averages for this series vs. the Orioles series. It seems like things looked a lot more normal, if not above normal, from our batters. I just figured out how to make grabbing the data for a game that much quicker ... but Search can grab the data very easily, the impediment being that you have to wait a day!
What might be interesting is the slash lines, actual and expected, by the hitters and given up by the pitchers, for each series. It should be fairly simple to convert them to expected wins.
Wow ... the formula for translating BA, OBP and SA into RS, done correctly, should answer our question about lineup balance and imbalance. Have to do that very soon!
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Post by jkfer98 on Apr 7, 2021 22:34:44 GMT -5
I still miss the Bullpen Band Anyone got the photo of the bullpen with "Lil" and "-ly" taped on their jackets during the ALCS? 4:47 (I’m struggling with posting a screenshot on here lol)
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 7, 2021 23:23:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the video link. Here you go (click to expand)...
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Post by johnsilver52 on Apr 7, 2021 23:48:00 GMT -5
Vazquez has been so impressive. Christian Vazquez is a professional hitter. He made himself that way just as did Bogaerts, who's in the same class. They worked to figure out how to hit to the opposite field first. Bogaerts did that for an entire year! Once that skill was in the toolkit they felt free to use their power stroke and club pitches middle in. It seemed like half the board was in on a Vazquez trade over the winter. Good defensive catchers aren't that common. Good hitting catchers are rare. To have a guy who is both on an ultra-reasonable contract is a gift, one I don't believe the team will be trading anytime soon. As his value on the field and apparently in the clubhouse soars, if anything they should rip the old one up and get him a new one that keeps him around longer. Catchers are in that rare group that age well. Years back, Yadier Molina made the point of asking people to be patient, that Vazquez would hit. He knew something we're all seeing now. Board was ate up with multiple folks wanting him moved for prospects, mostly after it was rumored he was available last year towards the deadline. i stand by same line you don't move one of the very best, all around catchers in the league, who is underpaid unless get back a whole lot more than he is really worth and by that? A supposed front end SP prospect, or star level regular prospect as part of the return. Guys like CVaz, because he's a 30yo catcher seem to be under valued and under appreciated and guys like Dalbec over hyped and too many think is some next Dave kingman.
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Post by soxinsf on Apr 7, 2021 23:58:51 GMT -5
With apologies for seeming to change the subject, it is the high importance of Vasquez, that makes consideration of Henry Davis so pertinent re this year’s draft. Top-notch catchers are hard to find.
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Post by blizzards39 on Apr 8, 2021 0:17:02 GMT -5
With apologies for seeming to change the subject, it is the high importance of Vasquez, that makes consideration of Henry Davis so pertinent re this year’s draft. Top-notch catchers are hard to find. Top notch anything. I’m good to draft whoever the FO thinks has the highest reasonable ceiling. Be Leiter Davis rocker or one of the highschool SSs
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 8, 2021 9:54:15 GMT -5
Going back to the Houck option/25-man roster thing... if Rodriguez had a setback and couldn't be activated, they wouldn't be able to recall Houck, right? The injury exception doesn't apply to players already on the injured list. Seems like an awful risk just to screw Houck out of one day of service time and MLB pay.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 8, 2021 10:42:23 GMT -5
Going back to the Houck option/25-man roster thing... if Rodriguez had a setback and couldn't be activated, they wouldn't be able to recall Houck, right? The injury exception doesn't apply to players already on the injured list. Seems like an awful risk just to screw Houck out of one day of service time and MLB pay. I think the point was rather being able to recall him sooner. After tomorrow's off day, they have 16 games in a row. I wouldn't be surprised if he came back to make a start during that time. It's looking more and more like Whitlock might slide into a late-inning role if he keeps this up, and Andriese might be the ERod handcuff for a while. 8 ERod 9 off 10 Richards 11 Pivetta 12 Perez 13 Eovaldi 14 ERod 15 Richards 16 Pivetta 17 Can maybe go Houck here now? 18 Perez 19 Eovaldi 20 ERod 21 Richards 22 Pivetta 23 Perez 24 Eovaldi 25 ERod 26 off day That said, I'm not sure the 17th versus the 18th makes all that much of a difference. In either case, inserting him keeps the starters from making consecutive starts on 4 days' rest. It would not surprise me if that's the plan and they sent him down to keep their options open.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 8, 2021 10:50:41 GMT -5
Christian Vazquez is a professional hitter. He made himself that way just as did Bogaerts, who's in the same class. They worked to figure out how to hit to the opposite field first. Bogaerts did that for an entire year! Once that skill was in the toolkit they felt free to use their power stroke and club pitches middle in. It seemed like half the board was in on a Vazquez trade over the winter. Good defensive catchers aren't that common. Good hitting catchers are rare. To have a guy who is both on an ultra-reasonable contract is a gift, one I don't believe the team will be trading anytime soon. As his value on the field and apparently in the clubhouse soars, if anything they should rip the old one up and get him a new one that keeps him around longer. Catchers are in that rare group that age well. Years back, Yadier Molina made the point of asking people to be patient, that Vazquez would hit. He knew something we're all seeing now. Board was ate up with multiple folks wanting him moved for prospects, mostly after it was rumored he was available last year towards the deadline. i stand by same line you don't move one of the very best, all around catchers in the league, who is underpaid unless get back a whole lot more than he is really worth and by that? A supposed front end SP prospect, or star level regular prospect as part of the return. Guys like CVaz, because he's a 30yo catcher seem to be under valued and under appreciated and guys like Dalbec over hyped and too many think is some next Dave kingman. Well, I would like CVaz moved if they're not competing this year mainly because he is 30 and the return should be astronomical. I like the player, but if they're not competing he's a guy who can help reload the system and catchers don't age as well as other positions.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 8, 2021 11:23:56 GMT -5
Board was ate up with multiple folks wanting him moved for prospects, mostly after it was rumored he was available last year towards the deadline. i stand by same line you don't move one of the very best, all around catchers in the league, who is underpaid unless get back a whole lot more than he is really worth and by that? A supposed front end SP prospect, or star level regular prospect as part of the return. Guys like CVaz, because he's a 30yo catcher seem to be under valued and under appreciated and guys like Dalbec over hyped and too many think is some next Dave kingman. Well, I would like CVaz moved if they're not competing this year mainly because he is 30 and the return should be astronomical. I like the player, but if they're not competing he's a guy who can help reload the system and catchers don't age as well as other positions. You'll want to read this... blogs.fangraphs.com/catcher-aging-is-a-curve-not-a-cliff/
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 8, 2021 12:19:13 GMT -5
I think the point was rather being able to recall him sooner. After tomorrow's off day, they have 16 games in a row. I wouldn't be surprised if he came back to make a start during that time. It's looking more and more like Whitlock might slide into a late-inning role if he keeps this up, and Andriese might be the ERod handcuff for a while. 8 ERod 9 off 10 Richards 11 Pivetta 12 Perez 13 Eovaldi 14 ERod 15 Richards 16 Pivetta 17 Can maybe go Houck here now? 18 Perez 19 Eovaldi 20 ERod 21 Richards 22 Pivetta 23 Perez 24 Eovaldi 25 ERod 26 off day That said, I'm not sure the 17th versus the 18th makes all that much of a difference. In either case, inserting him keeps the starters from making consecutive starts on 4 days' rest. It would not surprise me if that's the plan and they sent him down to keep their options open. Yeah, it would make sense to call him up 4/17 then to get the whole staff an extra day of rest. I guess I just feel like the reward here for optioning him early (Perez gets another day of rest after his second start rather than after his third) is outweighed by the risk that, if Rodriguez had a setback before he was activated, the Red Sox are starting Andriese tonight and probably piggybacking Whitlock, and they're calling up Brewer.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 8, 2021 13:01:27 GMT -5
Well I guess the other question is what would've changed from Tuesday after the game until today to change the Eddie decision, right? Do we know when he threw last? If it was Monday and he'd been fine for a couple weeks, it seems unlikely something happens yesterday that changes everything.
I don't disagree with the point though, to be clear. I think in a normal season (or maybe even just later in this one) they option him after the start and bring up a bullpen arm for 4 days. It was a bit weird - you're right that the 17th versus the 18th isn't much different.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Apr 8, 2021 14:10:43 GMT -5
Well I guess the other question is what would've changed from Tuesday after the game until today to change the Eddie decision, right? Do we know when he threw last? If it was Monday and he'd been fine for a couple weeks, it seems unlikely something happens yesterday that changes everything. I don't disagree with the point though, to be clear. I think in a normal season (or maybe even just later in this one) they option him after the start and bring up a bullpen arm for 4 days. It was a bit weird - you're right that the 17th versus the 18th isn't much different. It's a shame they couldn't keep him there as a swingman now. I understand the reasons why not, he's potentially to valuable as a really decent starter down the line and no club would want to chance wrecking that having a kid both start and pitch relief.. Like Whitlock probably will and not said with malice. Years ago this would have been how a guy like houck was introduced to the bigs.. Time has changed.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 8, 2021 15:09:02 GMT -5
Well, I would like CVaz moved if they're not competing this year mainly because he is 30 and the return should be astronomical. I like the player, but if they're not competing he's a guy who can help reload the system and catchers don't age as well as other positions. You'll want to read this... blogs.fangraphs.com/catcher-aging-is-a-curve-not-a-cliff/That's indeed an interesting curvature. It's interesting how they got this stigma, but it certainly feels real when I think of the likes of Brian McCann, Russell Martin, Joe Mauer, Buster Posey was trending downward, but off to a good start this year, and Jonathan Lucroy it makes me feel like there's validity to it. But the numbers are the numbers.
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