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Chaim Bloom and the Red Sox Rebuild
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Post by fanofredsox on Jul 21, 2021 20:20:50 GMT -5
I agree, I could see a team going 6yrs $100m Then I'm very confused as to why you would say to sign erod to 3 years 36 million deal if it's not even half of what you think he could get...? I told you… it’s what I think he’s worth. I think who ever signs him for your suggestion ( or more ) will be very disappointed
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 21, 2021 20:26:50 GMT -5
Then I'm very confused as to why you would say to sign erod to 3 years 36 million deal if it's not even half of what you think he could get...? I told you… it’s what I think he’s worth. I think who ever signs him for your suggestion ( or more ) will be very disappointed I very much disagree that erod is only worth 3 years 36 million. He's at least a number 3 starter and only 28 years old. He's definitely worth 18+ million over 4-5 years.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jul 21, 2021 22:43:56 GMT -5
Then I'm very confused as to why you would say to sign erod to 3 years 36 million deal if it's not even half of what you think he could get...? I told you… it’s what I think he’s worth. I think who ever signs him for your suggestion ( or more ) will be very disappointed …yet your own list of priorities had re-signing E-rod ABOVE extending Devers… If you think he's only worth a small percentage of his possible market value, why did you list re-signing him as a higher priority than a Devers extension? These certainly seem like conflicting ideas.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 22, 2021 7:31:21 GMT -5
Red Sox fan on October 3rd "Wow, what an amazing season, I hope we can go all the way in the playoffs. I just hope the Sox unexpected level of success didn't screw up their long term rebuild plans"
Bloom on November 4th "ughhhh, that was the rebuild. You're welcome for another World Series"
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Post by tjb21 on Jul 22, 2021 13:32:36 GMT -5
I'm not sold on rushing to sign Vazquez. Definitely pick up the option, but he's been consistently bad each month which would make me want to buy some time to see if he can show that he's not impacted by the 2021 baseball. He hasn't had one of his typical hot streaks yet this year. View AttachmentHis 2019 and 2020 seasons far exceeded his xWOBA, likely due to these streaks, but this year his wOBA is back in line with his xWOBA, which is only slightly worse than his career numbers. My guess: if Bloom wants to go the cheaper route at any position, it's catcher.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 23, 2021 13:55:33 GMT -5
Just moved posts from this thread that were about ERod, Whitlock, and the 2022 rotation.
I kind of have half a mind to close the thread because I think 90% of what's going to come up is less about Bloom than about what posters think Bloom should do. Leaving it for now - the discussion is fine, but let's put discussions that have nothing to do with Bloom elsewhere.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 23, 2021 14:15:52 GMT -5
Just moved posts from this thread that were about ERod, Whitlock, and the 2022 rotation. I kind of have half a mind to close the thread because I think 90% of what's going to come up is less about Bloom than about what posters think Bloom should do. Leaving it for now - the discussion is fine, but let's put discussions that have nothing to do with Bloom elsewhere. On that note let me say I think the Sox have it really good with Cora and Bloom, they are both difference makers. With what I have seen from Bloom so far I can actually see a future that has the system consistently churning out players that keep the Sox on top. Maybe their is some luck involved but so many decisions have turned into gold already that you have to give him credit. Not just that but he is creative about it, he always seems to get something extra. It certainly helps to have had a terrible season last year or they wouldn't have been in the position to take Whitlock or have the 4th, 40th etc. picks in the draft but their are many other moves outside of the obvious also. Who knows the Sox could be looking at a long run of success, how about the record from last yr to this yr to start things off. I give Cora the lions share of the credit for that but Bloom is right there, he put the roster together.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2021 14:21:44 GMT -5
Just moved posts from this thread that were about ERod, Whitlock, and the 2022 rotation. I kind of have half a mind to close the thread because I think 90% of what's going to come up is less about Bloom than about what posters think Bloom should do. Leaving it for now - the discussion is fine, but let's put discussions that have nothing to do with Bloom elsewhere. On that note let me say I think the Sox have it really good with Cora and Bloom, they are both difference makers. With what I have seen from Bloom so far I can actually see a future that has the system consistently churning out players that keep the Sox on top. Maybe their is some luck involved but so many decisions have turned into gold already that you have to give him credit. Not just that but he is creative about it, he always seems to get something extra. It certainly helps to have had a terrible season last year or they wouldn't have been in the position to take Whitlock or have the 4th, 40th etc. picks in the draft but their are many other moves outside of the obvious also. Who knows the Sox could be looking at a long run of success, how about the record from last yr to this yr to start things off. I give Cora the lions share of the credit for that but Bloom is right there, he put the roster together. When you get 18 options for everything, we don't really care if 2/3rds of them don't work out at all. I love that strategy. Throw 100 players at the wall and see who sticks.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 23, 2021 15:28:51 GMT -5
On that note let me say I think the Sox have it really good with Cora and Bloom, they are both difference makers. With what I have seen from Bloom so far I can actually see a future that has the system consistently churning out players that keep the Sox on top. Maybe their is some luck involved but so many decisions have turned into gold already that you have to give him credit. Not just that but he is creative about it, he always seems to get something extra. It certainly helps to have had a terrible season last year or they wouldn't have been in the position to take Whitlock or have the 4th, 40th etc. picks in the draft but their are many other moves outside of the obvious also. Who knows the Sox could be looking at a long run of success, how about the record from last yr to this yr to start things off. I give Cora the lions share of the credit for that but Bloom is right there, he put the roster together. When you get 18 options for everything, we don't really care if 2/3rds of them don't work out at all. I love that strategy. Throw 100 players at the wall and see who sticks. I was going to use the same analogy but figured I was long enough already. Great thing is lots seem to be sticking.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 23, 2021 21:07:48 GMT -5
Has there ever been any reports or news on if the Red sox have ever actually approached rafi about an extension? I sure hope they have otherwise that's grounds for being locked up for malfeasance.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2021 21:39:12 GMT -5
Actually this may fit better here as a catch all ( kind of a future of the sox thread) I can kind of see why Bloom did not go all in this year at the trade deadline. Say Sale comes back and does not pitch well and the rest of the rotation continues to struggle ( ie Eduardo Rodriguez, Perez and Richards) We would have needed to trade for 3 or 4 different SP by the trade deadline along with a 1B. And we have nowhere near the capital to do that. On top of that I am pretty positive that Sale is going to be on a pitch count as well as an IP limit as he works his way back from TJ... While E-rod is 8-2 since the start of June he has a 5+ ERA Richards since June has a 6.65 ERA Pérez has a close to 5 ERA since the start of June so thats three SP spots that Bloom would have needed to fix at the trade deadline (on top of RP/ and 1B help) however our lineup has more issues than that Christian Vázquez stats the last 14/28 days here are Xander Bogaerts here are Hunter Renfroe and here is J.D. Martinez
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 30, 2021 21:48:51 GMT -5
JD and Xander look positively anemic at the plate - thanks for posting the numbers that bear that out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 30, 2021 21:50:27 GMT -5
JD and Xander look positively anemic at the plate - thanks for posting the numbers that bear that out. Xander's wrist must be bothering him. The power hasn't been there. He and Devers are irreplaceable.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 30, 2021 21:53:36 GMT -5
so thats three SP spots that Bloom would have needed to fix at the trade deadline (on top of RP/ and 1B help) "Fix"? Man the fact that the Red Sox are a good team and not stuck in rebuild mode should not dissuade you from the fact that Bloom was brought in with long term goals. The farm system was non existent, his job is to fix THAT and not finish it off.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2021 21:55:34 GMT -5
so thats three SP spots that Bloom would have needed to fix at the trade deadline (on top of RP/ and 1B help) "Fix"? Man the fact that the Red Sox are a good team and not stuck in rebuild mode should not dissuade you from the fact that Bloom was brought in with long term goals. The farm system was non existent, his job is to fix THAT and not finish it off. That’s my point. I’m more speaking to the people who are complaining that bloom didn’t pull a DD and sell the whole farm for this year. We want to build long term success where we make the playoffs every year. And not what has happened the past few seasons.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 30, 2021 21:59:21 GMT -5
That’s my point. I’m more speaking to the people who are complaining that bloom didn’t pull a DD and sell the whole farm for this year. We want to build long term success where we make the playoffs every year. And not what has happened the past few seasons. Oops, my bad my man. Yeah, I definitely agree with you, I don't understand the negativity either. I'm still salty over the Mookie trade, but we have to be reasonable about the state of the Sox and it's not "win now". We're recuperating from win now.
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Post by manfred on Jul 30, 2021 22:17:24 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years?
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 30, 2021 22:38:54 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? If they were a single move away? Sure, I'd do that. But they're clearly not one move away. They had a LOT of good bounces and some Cora magic to be at the position they're in right now. They need to build a sustainable winning team instead of going all in at a mirage season.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2021 22:59:25 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? If they were a single move away? Sure, I'd do that. But they're clearly not one move away. They had a LOT of good bounces and some Cora magic to be at the position they're in right now. They need to build a sustainable winning team instead of going all in at a mirage season. Yup.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2021 23:24:35 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? Win now means you are at most one or two pieces from possibly winning it all (and again that is not even guaranteed, just ask the dodgers) We have so many issues with this team right now. From the rotation to almost half our our lineup in a slump. That it would be stupid to go all in.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,753
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Post by mobaz on Jul 31, 2021 3:45:18 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? Win now means you are at most one or two pieces from possibly winning it all (and again that is not even guaranteed, just ask the dodgers) We have so many issues with this team right now. From the rotation to almost half our our lineup in a slump. That it would be stupid to go all in. I said something similar about the rotation 400 pages ago in the trade strategy thread. We either get lucky and Sale comes back impactful and a majority of the rest hit their 75th percentile outcomes (like 2013) or we are no where near a real contender. We could have gotten a fifth #4 starter type but it's just as likely that Perez or Richardson go on a run. Not getting a 1b is frustrating but the rotation was in a tough spot to guarantee an improvement at a palatable cost.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2021 11:23:42 GMT -5
Win now means you are at most one or two pieces from possibly winning it all (and again that is not even guaranteed, just ask the dodgers) We have so many issues with this team right now. From the rotation to almost half our our lineup in a slump. That it would be stupid to go all in. I said something similar about the rotation 400 pages ago in the trade strategy thread. We either get lucky and Sale comes back impactful and a majority of the rest hit their 75th percentile outcomes (like 2013) or we are no where near a real contender. We could have gotten a fifth #4 starter type but it's just as likely that Perez or Richardson go on a run. Not getting a 1b is frustrating but the rotation was in a tough spot to guarantee an improvement at a palatable cost. Yup.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 31, 2021 12:32:10 GMT -5
That’s my point. I’m more speaking to the people who are complaining that bloom didn’t pull a DD and sell the whole farm for this year. We want to build long term success where we make the playoffs every year. And not what has happened the past few seasons. Oops, my bad my man. Yeah, I definitely agree with you, I don't understand the negativity either. I'm still salty over the Mookie trade, but we have to be reasonable about the state of the Sox and it's not "win now". We're recuperating from win now. So well said, guys! It has been an exciting season, but "man" there are lots of holes and weaknesses on this team. I'm amazed that Cora and the players are where they are. I believe they will definitely get in the playoffs but throwing out the prime directive immediately is wrong. Let's get this right and build something that lasts year after year. The spare parts Bloom has brought together have done a great job but we will not be anywhere near a favorite with us relying on guys like Santana and Marwin. We need LOTS of pitching, not one starter. If Houck and Sale come through, we have a chance to make some noise, but we have lots of "black-holes" in our line-up and in our rotation. I, for one, don't want them throwing all their gains at the Farm away. Bloom has a vision I agree with. I love the draft, even if Fabian doesn't sign. Some of our kids are looking like keepers. Be patient little grasshopper! Bloom sees all!!
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,699
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Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2021 12:56:57 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? If they were a single move away? Sure, I'd do that. But they're clearly not one move away. They had a LOT of good bounces and some Cora magic to be at the position they're in right now. They need to build a sustainable winning team instead of going all in at a mirage season. Totally agreed. If you took this rotation and lineup and simulated 100 seasons, this result would probably be top 5% at minimum. People just need to appreciate the fact we’re watching a team with a chance rather than what we thought we’d be watching on April 1st.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 31, 2021 13:03:51 GMT -5
If they were a single move away? Sure, I'd do that. But they're clearly not one move away. They had a LOT of good bounces and some Cora magic to be at the position they're in right now. They need to build a sustainable winning team instead of going all in at a mirage season. Totally agreed. If you took this rotation and lineup and simulated 100 seasons, this result would probably be top 5% at minimum. People just need to appreciate the fact we’re watching a team with a chance rather than what we thought we’d be watching on April 1st. Agree!! Appreciate what has transpired. Good (Great?) times are ahead
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