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Post by patford on May 5, 2021 8:09:53 GMT -5
Well, it's only 3 games and 12 PA, but in them Hunter Renfroe has matched his TB for his previous 16 games and 57 PA. 6/12, 2B, 2 HR.
If indeed Renfroe has been fixed, it simplifies things quite a bit. Santana, when ready, either replaces Franchy or the 9th reliever. Ultimately there's a roster spot that's either Franchy or Arroyo, if everyone is healthy. They may trade Arroyo if they feel that Arauz is next year's backup MI.
3 games... against the Rangers and Tigers. Honestly, I’d go the other way and say if he *didn’t* play better against them then there is literally nothing in the tank. But this was about the equivalent of a rehab assignment to AA. Jury is still out. Detroit is horrendous. The Rangers pitching isn't all that bad. Their top three SP are good or better and their bullpen is solid with Kennedy, King, Rodriguez, Yang all pitching well.
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Post by manfred on May 5, 2021 8:27:46 GMT -5
3 games... against the Rangers and Tigers. Honestly, I’d go the other way and say if he *didn’t* play better against them then there is literally nothing in the tank. But this was about the equivalent of a rehab assignment to AA. Jury is still out. Detroit is horrendous. The Rangers pitching isn't all that bad. Their top three SP are good or better and their bullpen is solid with Kennedy, King, Rodriguez, Yang all pitching well. His home run was off Jordan Lyles, who was awful and has a 7+ ERA (career 5.28). The guys you name... he didn’t hit. He got a hit off Brett Martin Sunday. Maybe he is totally fixed! But, as I wrote, feasting on some of the worst pitching the Sox have seen this year is not enough to convince me.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 6, 2021 10:36:04 GMT -5
From 4/16 to 4/26, Renfroe had one 100+ MPH exit velo.
From 4/27 to 5/5, he has 9 of them.
Hopefully a good sign.
Compare with Franchy who has 2 of them since 4/11.
Fun with arbitrary endpoints, to be sure, so who knows?
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 10:44:51 GMT -5
From 4/16 to 4/26, Renfroe had one 100+ MPH exit velo. From 4/27 to 5/5, he has 9 of them. Hopefully a good sign. Compare with Franchy who has 2 of them since 4/11. Fun with arbitrary endpoints, to be sure, so who knows? Well.... 4/27 he was 1-2 against the Mets. Didn’t play the second game against the Mets (dodging de Grom). And since he’s played the Rangers and Tigers who are 12th and last respectively in ERA in the AL. I am not getting too excited about a Renfroaissance. Add: also of interest, TX and Detroit are at the bottom in hits-per-9. They are (oddly, with Oakland) the most hittable staffs in the AL.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 7, 2021 5:27:19 GMT -5
From 4/16 to 4/26, Renfroe had one 100+ MPH exit velo. From 4/27 to 5/5, he has 9 of them. Hopefully a good sign. Compare with Franchy who has 2 of them since 4/11.Fun with arbitrary endpoints, to be sure, so who knows? And who immediately went out and had 104.2, 106.8, and 110.2!
Our long unnatural nightmare may be ending ... or maybe not.
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Post by jbsox on May 7, 2021 8:47:25 GMT -5
From 4/16 to 4/26, Renfroe had one 100+ MPH exit velo. From 4/27 to 5/5, he has 9 of them. Hopefully a good sign. Compare with Franchy who has 2 of them since 4/11.Fun with arbitrary endpoints, to be sure, so who knows? And who immediately went out and had 104.2, 106.8, and 110.2!
Our long unnatural nightmare may be ending ... or maybe not.
Franchy, even before his 3 hit game yesterday, seemed to be striking out a lot less recently (seems like last 5 games or so). I don’t have any numbers to get it back, but I was noticing it. I was happy he was at least hitting the ball making his outs in the field rather than striking out. Lol Maybe he has been making progress with yesterday finally showing results of his progress. Hopefully yesterday is his breakout game, and he can go on a little bit of a streak.
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Post by joshuacoffee on May 7, 2021 9:31:34 GMT -5
I think a lot of the issue people are having with some of the OF (Renfroe especially) is a simple misalignment of expectations. Renfro is a solid 9, maybe even 8, hitter with above average defense. If you are expecting more than that out of him, you're likely to be disappointed in the long run. Sure, he's going to go on some mediocre to good runs every now and then, but he's likely to always fall back. The expectations issue is probably exacerbated by the makeup of the position player portion of the roster though. There's not a true leadoff hitter (unless you count Verdugo, who says he doesn't want to leadoff and Cora doesn't seem to want him there either) and there feels like there is a dearth of 6-7 hitters. If you broke the lineup down into 1-2 (On base guys), 3-5 (RBI guys), 6-7 (competent hitters), and 8-9 (if you play defense it's required that you take at bats), this is how I see the current roster (admittedly I'm leaning more on how I feel things look than analytics or stats)-
1-2 Verdugo 3-5 Bogey, JDM, Devers 6-7 Vazquez, maybe Kiki 8-9 Renfroe, Arroyo Guys you don't want starting unless you have to Plawecki (the definition of a good backup catcher), Franchy, Gonzalez, and I'm putting Dalbec here for now
A couple of things to note- 1. Renfroe does have a split issue. 2. The Sox have a great luxuary in having a catcher who is not in the 8-9 (or worse) category. Probably less than half of the teams in the league have that. 3. I might be too generous to Kiki and too harsh for Arroyo and Dalbec. 4. Someone's got to play first, so I guess at least getting Dalbec more at bats beats a steady diet of Gonzalez there since Dalbec does have the potential for a brighter future. 4. Its still a young season and this will likely change.
Is there somewhere to find stats based on lineup position? I see all kinds of places for stats based on defensive position played, but it would be interesting to see how our lineup positions 1 through fare against the league.
(This might not belong in an OF specific thread since it really covers all of the position players on the 26 man roster, but I couldn't find another place for it. If a mod wants to move this somewhere, I'm ok with that.)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 7, 2021 10:39:29 GMT -5
And who immediately went out and had 104.2, 106.8, and 110.2!
Our long unnatural nightmare may be ending ... or maybe not.
Franchy, even before his 3 hit game yesterday, seemed to be striking out a lot less recently (seems like last 5 games or so). I don’t have any numbers to get it back, but I was noticing it. I was happy he was at least hitting the ball making his outs in the field rather than striking out. Lol Maybe he has been making progress with yesterday finally showing results of his progress. Hopefully yesterday is his breakout game, and he can go on a little bit of a streak. B-Ref Game Logs are your friend! 4/1-4/28: 49% k rate (25 in 51 PA) 4/30-5/6: 11% K rate (2 in 18 PA) Does kind of feel like he hit the K brakes beginning with Texas. His only two PA against the Mets were Ks and he'd struck out in 5 of 7 PA the prior series with Seattle. Again, we'll see if it's real or not though.
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Post by incandenza on May 7, 2021 10:49:47 GMT -5
And who immediately went out and had 104.2, 106.8, and 110.2!
Our long unnatural nightmare may be ending ... or maybe not.
Franchy, even before his 3 hit game yesterday, seemed to be striking out a lot less recently (seems like last 5 games or so). I don’t have any numbers to get it back, but I was noticing it. I was happy he was at least hitting the ball making his outs in the field rather than striking out. Lol Maybe he has been making progress with yesterday finally showing results of his progress. Hopefully yesterday is his breakout game, and he can go on a little bit of a streak. You're right! Franchy from:
4/3-4/19: 41 PA, .243/.317/.297, 41.5% K rate 4/21-4/28: 10 PA, .000/.000/.000, 80.0% K rate
4/30-5/6: 18 PA, .176/.176/.235, 11.1% K rate
Given the way he stung the ball yesterday, on a day he (coincidentally??) wasn't even supposed to play, it'll be interesting to see what he does in the next week or so.
On Renfroe: he's got a 106 wRC+ vs. lefties, which is fine for a platoon outfielder with good defense. The problem continues to be his being used in a role that exceeds his capabilities.
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Post by manfred on May 7, 2021 11:00:31 GMT -5
Franchy, even before his 3 hit game yesterday, seemed to be striking out a lot less recently (seems like last 5 games or so). I don’t have any numbers to get it back, but I was noticing it. I was happy he was at least hitting the ball making his outs in the field rather than striking out. Lol Maybe he has been making progress with yesterday finally showing results of his progress. Hopefully yesterday is his breakout game, and he can go on a little bit of a streak. You're right! Franchy from:
4/3-4/19: 41 PA, .243/.317/.297, 41.5% K rate 4/21-4/28: 10 PA, .000/.000/.000, 80.0% K rate
4/30-5/6: 18 PA, .176/.176/.235, 11.1% K rate
Given the way he stung the ball yesterday, on a day he (coincidentally??) wasn't even supposed to play, it'll be interesting to see what he does in the next week or so.
On Renfroe: he's got a 106 wRC+ vs. righties, which is fine for a platoon outfielder with good defense. The problem continues to be his being used in a role that exceeds his capabilities.
Very interesting to see going forward, especially given that Detroit is last in staff Ks. Franchy needs a sample that isn’t heavy on baseball’s worst staff.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 7, 2021 12:02:31 GMT -5
Detroit is horrendous. The Rangers pitching isn't all that bad. Their top three SP are good or better and their bullpen is solid with Kennedy, King, Rodriguez, Yang all pitching well. His home run was off Jordan Lyles, who was awful and has a 7+ ERA (career 5.28). The guys you name... he didn’t hit. He got a hit off Brett Martin Sunday. Maybe he is totally fixed! But, as I wrote, feasting on some of the worst pitching the Sox have seen this year is not enough to convince me. The thing is, guys are bad pitchers because they have a high percentage of crap pitches. But even good pitchers make mistakes.
Renfroe went through most of the season without ever hitting a single mistake hard, from any kind of pitcher. So it's unquestionably a good sign that he was able to hit a bunch of them hard.
As a matter of fact, his going 0/10 since the three-game splurge might be that he happened to not see any mistakes.
Each pair of lines is actual, then expected:
Vs. RHP
4/4 - 4/25
.171 / .171 / .205 = .171 wOBA (39 PA)
.176 / .222 / .228 = .225 xwOBA
4/27 - 5/6
.200 / .200 / .550 = .314 (20 PA) .230 / .230 / .535 = .314
Vs. LHP
4/2 - 4/20
.200 / .250 / .467 = .306 (16 PA) .171 / .223 / .380 = .255
4/23 - 5/6
.250 / .400 / .333 = .340 (15 PA) .386 / .508 / .590 = .469
Overall expected
.183 / .234 / .337 = .248 to 4/22 .280 / .303 / .553 = .357 since 4/27
The two days in between split the difference almost exactly.
For the last 10 or 12 days, he's been exactly as hoped: a lefty-killer who can put the occasional big hurt on RHP. I's just 32 or 40 PA, so cross you fingers and hope to cheer.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 7, 2021 12:26:54 GMT -5
I would bet a Brice DFA is the Santana countermove, for now. They need a spot on the 40 anyway and Brice strikes me as the 26th man on the 26-man roster right now. Might depend on how much they can loosen the reins on Whitlock at this point though, but that 3-man bench has been kind of tough when guys get dinged up. With Cordero, perhaps they try to work with him in MLB for a little while longer before swapping him out with Duran. That said, wouldn't bet against them doing something with Wilson either to free up the 40-man spot. I believe you have stated earlier that you did not see the Red Sox rushing Duran to the mlb, and i must agree. He is 0 for his first three games in AAA as is Downs. IMO neither is likely to come up before the all-star break. The more logical choices are Santana, Munoz, Chavis, or bringing back Cordero or Renfroe if they even do get sent down which at this point no one has except Houck (place holder for E-Rod) and the 27th player for DHers....not a single DL/IL or demotion.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 19, 2021 6:31:32 GMT -5
The performances from Santana and Duran thus far is giving me hope that the answers to the OF are in the system.
Hunter coming around along with those two could turn a negative into a positive, it would be a nice way for that story to unfold. A productive Santana along with Kiki and MG could be a great trio of super utility guys.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2021 10:02:29 GMT -5
The performances from Santana and Duran thus far is giving me hope that the answers to the OF are in the system. Hunter coming around along with those two could turn a negative into a positive, it would be a nice way for that story to unfold. A productive Santana along with Kiki and MG could be a great trio of super utility guys. It could be. I wonder if Cora would sit down Kiké or even Renfroe if it came down to it. I'm wondering if he'd stop playing Marwin so often. I mean if Duran came up he'd at least be the strong half of a platoon, if not more. And if Santana hit well, that also has to cut into Renfroe's or Hernandez's time, too? Sure Hernandez and Gonzalez can handle 2b, especially with it going to take some time for Arroyo to come back. I just wonder how Cora juggles this scenario or is he wedded to the idea that Kiké Hernandez must lead off and play every day and that Marwin Gonzalez has to play regularly.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 19, 2021 16:59:44 GMT -5
The performances from Santana and Duran thus far is giving me hope that the answers to the OF are in the system. Hunter coming around along with those two could turn a negative into a positive, it would be a nice way for that story to unfold. A productive Santana along with Kiki and MG could be a great trio of super utility guys. It could be. I wonder if Cora would sit down Kiké or even Renfroe if it came down to it. I'm wondering if he'd stop playing Marwin so often. I mean if Duran came up he'd at least be the strong half of a platoon, if not more. And if Santana hit well, that also has to cut into Renfroe's or Hernandez's time, too? Sure Hernandez and Gonzalez can handle 2b, especially with it going to take some time for Arroyo to come back. I just wonder how Cora juggles this scenario or is he wedded to the idea that Kiké Hernandez must lead off and play every day and that Marwin Gonzalez has to play regularly. I would hope and think that Cora has been around long enough to not be wedded to any idea. Those guys have been utility guys most of their careers for a reason. Find a balance that works is the answer.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 21, 2021 7:56:37 GMT -5
The top 3 centerfield prospects are all having great starts to their seasons, to me that has been the story of the year. It will be interesting to watch what happens when they all advance a league when Duran gets the call. Jimenez and Rosario will be very young for those levels so it could be rough and might not happen right away but if they continue to get on base and adjust to the competition it will be a major plus for the system.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2021 3:02:14 GMT -5
With the arrival of yet another 2B / OF, this really is becoming an OF / 2B thing. And Santana also provides another option at 1B against RHP that project to be tough on Dalbec.
So, vs. RHP you're going to see Verdugo, Cordero, and Santana except when banged up or needing a rest, plus a choice of Kiké, Arroyo, Renfoe, or Gonzalez, and sometimes two of those four with Dalbec sitting.
This is of course the spot that you hope Duran seizes around mid-year. That will require moving either Gonzalez or Arroyo. Marwin will be a FA but is a great clubhouse guy and is more versatile; Arroyo might be their best defensive 2B, is under team control through 2024, and looks like a nice guy to have on the bench as the backup skill infielder for at least some of those years; there's no guarantee Arauz will be better. You almost hope that one or the other needs a few weeks on the IL at the point where Duran looks ready. If there's a contender that's weak at 2B (or 3B) both in MLB and the high minors, they might be interested in Arroyo and give you someone of value. That seems like a longshot, though, and there may be better guys on the market even if a team like that exists.
Vs. LHP, it's Verdugo, Renfoe, Kiké, Santana on most days.
Looking at performance vs. RHP, according to xwOBA (mostly):
Kiké the previous 3 years was .301 xwOBA. This year he's .318 and I believe that may well be for real, in part because it seemed to be the team's belief that he could be better. Interestingly, he's .340 on the road but with a .298 wOBA, while at Fenway he's .299 but with a .376 wOBA. He has looked like a legit Fenway hitter, and his overall wOBA, .339 may have a real component as well. He definitely looks like the best option of the four, but the overall difference isn't big enough to make him a default; they'll look at the matchups ever day..
Renfroe is both tantalizing and discouraging.
.327, 2018
.295, 2019 .267, 2020 .188 (16 PA) through April 14 .263 (28 PA) from then to end of April .350 (30 PA) May 1 to 10
OMG, they fixed him!
.181 (26 PA) since. So now he's .256 for the season, and .269 since that equally brutal start. He's .169 at Fenway, with a .210 wOBA, and .361 on the road, with a .272 wOBA. That split wasn't supposed to happen.
I would declare with confidence that they haven't fixed him at all if it weren't for the fact that they are treating him as if they did. Whether he continues to muddle around .265 - .270 or has another great stretch will be telling.
I'll do Marwin (who surprises me by being right in this mix) and Arroyo next.
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Post by manfred on May 25, 2021 9:02:43 GMT -5
With the arrival of yet another 2B / OF, this really is becoming an OF / 2B thing. And Santana also provides another option at 1B against RHP that project to be tough on Dalbec.
So, vs. RHP you're going to see Verdugo, Cordero, and Santana except when banged up or needing a rest, plus a choice of Kiké, Arroyo, Renfoe, or Gonzalez, and sometimes two of those four with Dalbec sitting.
This is of course the spot that you hope Duran seizes around mid-year. That will require moving either Gonzalez or Arroyo. Marwin will be a FA but is a great clubhouse guy and is more versatile; Arroyo might be their best defensive 2B, is under team control through 2024, and looks like a nice guy to have on the bench as the backup skill infielder for at least some of those years; there's no guarantee Arauz will be better. You almost hope that one or the other needs a few weeks on the IL at the point where Duran looks ready. If there's a contender that's weak at 2B (or 3B) both in MLB and the high minors, they might be interested in Arroyo and give you someone of value. That seems like a longshot, though, and there may be better guys on the market even if a team like that exists.
Vs. LHP, it's Verdugo, Renfoe, Kiké, Santana on most days.
Looking at performance vs. RHP, according to xwOBA (mostly):
Kiké the previous 3 years was .301 xwOBA. This year he's .318 and I believe that may well be for real, in part because it seemed to be the team's belief that he could be better. Interestingly, he's .340 on the road but with a .298 wOBA, while at Fenway he's .299 but with a .376 wOBA. He has looked like a legit Fenway hitter, and his overall wOBA, .339 may have a real component as well. He definitely looks like the best option of the four, but the overall difference isn't big enough to make him a default; they'll look at the matchups ever day..
Renfroe is both tantalizing and discouraging.
.327, 2018
.295, 2019 .267, 2020 .188 (16 PA) through April 14 .263 (28 PA) from then to end of April .350 (30 PA) May 1 to 10
OMG, they fixed him!
.181 (26 PA) since. So now he's .256 for the season, and .269 since that equally brutal start. He's .169 at Fenway, with a .210 wOBA, and .361 on the road, with a .272 wOBA. That split wasn't supposed to happen.
I would declare with confidence that they haven't fixed him at all if it weren't for the fact that they are treating him as if they did. Whether he continues to muddle around .265 - .270 or has another great stretch will be telling.
I'll do Marwin (who surprises me by being right in this mix) and Arroyo next.
Is it possible they treat him like they fixed him (but haven’t) because they have no real choice? I think Renfroe is not great, but he is better than, well, anything else they have to replace him. His glove has been great, and he has shown he can hit in bunches — unlike options behind him. I guess I say this having come around slightly on Renfroe. He is often hopeless at the plate, but he’s had some big hits. And he is so much better defensively than I realized that he helps the team win even when he is K’ing.
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Post by incandenza on May 25, 2021 10:00:21 GMT -5
With the arrival of yet another 2B / OF, this really is becoming an OF / 2B thing. And Santana also provides another option at 1B against RHP that project to be tough on Dalbec.
So, vs. RHP you're going to see Verdugo, Cordero, and Santana except when banged up or needing a rest, plus a choice of Kiké, Arroyo, Renfoe, or Gonzalez, and sometimes two of those four with Dalbec sitting.
This is of course the spot that you hope Duran seizes around mid-year. That will require moving either Gonzalez or Arroyo. Marwin will be a FA but is a great clubhouse guy and is more versatile; Arroyo might be their best defensive 2B, is under team control through 2024, and looks like a nice guy to have on the bench as the backup skill infielder for at least some of those years; there's no guarantee Arauz will be better. You almost hope that one or the other needs a few weeks on the IL at the point where Duran looks ready. If there's a contender that's weak at 2B (or 3B) both in MLB and the high minors, they might be interested in Arroyo and give you someone of value. That seems like a longshot, though, and there may be better guys on the market even if a team like that exists.
Vs. LHP, it's Verdugo, Renfoe, Kiké, Santana on most days.
Looking at performance vs. RHP, according to xwOBA (mostly):
Kiké the previous 3 years was .301 xwOBA. This year he's .318 and I believe that may well be for real, in part because it seemed to be the team's belief that he could be better. Interestingly, he's .340 on the road but with a .298 wOBA, while at Fenway he's .299 but with a .376 wOBA. He has looked like a legit Fenway hitter, and his overall wOBA, .339 may have a real component as well. He definitely looks like the best option of the four, but the overall difference isn't big enough to make him a default; they'll look at the matchups ever day..
Renfroe is both tantalizing and discouraging.
.327, 2018
.295, 2019 .267, 2020 .188 (16 PA) through April 14 .263 (28 PA) from then to end of April .350 (30 PA) May 1 to 10
OMG, they fixed him!
.181 (26 PA) since. So now he's .256 for the season, and .269 since that equally brutal start. He's .169 at Fenway, with a .210 wOBA, and .361 on the road, with a .272 wOBA. That split wasn't supposed to happen.
I would declare with confidence that they haven't fixed him at all if it weren't for the fact that they are treating him as if they did. Whether he continues to muddle around .265 - .270 or has another great stretch will be telling.
I'll do Marwin (who surprises me by being right in this mix) and Arroyo next.
Is it possible they treat him like they fixed him (but haven’t) because they have no real choice? I think Renfroe is not great, but he is better than, well, anything else they have to replace him. His glove has been great, and he has shown he can hit in bunches — unlike options behind him. I guess I say this having come around slightly on Renfroe. He is often hopeless at the plate, but he’s had some big hits. And he is so much better defensively than I realized that he helps the team win even when he is K’ing. Renfroe is an above-average hitter against lefties and plays great defense, but he has a 42 wRC+ vs. righties. For his career against righties he's .214/.262/.440, which is merely bad, but this season he's .189/.212/.347, which is unplayably awful. The problem is that he's gotten more than two-thirds of his plate appearances against righties.
Will he regress toward his career averages? Or is he just a worse hitter now? His numbers against lefties are also down from his career averages, though still pretty good.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 25, 2021 10:38:04 GMT -5
Is it possible they treat him like they fixed him (but havenât) because they have no real choice? I think Renfroe is not great, but he is better than, well, anything else they have to replace him. His glove has been great, and he has shown he can hit in bunches â unlike options behind him. I guess I say this having come around slightly on Renfroe. He is often hopeless at the plate, but heâs had some big hits. And he is so much better defensively than I realized that he helps the team win even when he is Kâing. Renfroe is an above-average hitter against lefties and plays great defense, but he has a 42 wRC+ vs. righties. For his career against righties he's .214/.262/.440, which is merely bad, but this season he's .189/.212/.347, which is unplayably awful. The problem is that he's gotten more than two-thirds of his plate appearances against righties.
Will he regress toward his career averages? Or is he just a worse hitter now? His numbers against lefties are also down from his career averages, though still pretty good.
Renfroe is basically what he has been. The more he plays the more I expect him to be what he has historically been. The Sox, as the year goes on, don't need to play him heavily against righties. And whether Franchy gets it together or not, they don't even need to rely on him either if Duran can come up and produce. You figure that the outfield will likely be either Duran/Hernandez/Verdugo against righties or Duran/Santana/Verdugo if they opt to put Hernandez at 2b. I have trouble believing that Kiké won't play most of the time, even against righties. He has played well thus far as he is now riding a hot streak, but if he regresses to career norms, Santana becomes more of an option in CF. The point I'm trying to make is that sooner or later the Sox can stop doing things that aren't to their advantage once Duran is ready. And Santana is helping with this. Santana's presence can put Marwin Gonzalez on the bench more often which would be a good thing as the Sox have leaned too heavily on him. They won't need to bat Renfroe against righties and can use him like the platoon outfielder/defensive specialist that he truly is. They can even sit down Kiké against tough righties should he start to struggle. One platoon concern is at 1b. Dalbec has been brutally bad against righties but has ripped lefties. While I wish Casas could fast track to be ready by August to play 1b against righties that is unrealistic. So the Sox kind of need to stick for the time being with Dalbec against righties. If he is to have a career and develop he needs to get the experience against righties and learn how to hit them enough so he isn't the short end of a platoon or just a bench player who can play the corners. Besides right now the other option is either play Marwin Gonzalez who really isn't much of a hitter or put Santana at 1b, Kiké in CF with Arroyo at 2b. At this point you have to stick with Dalbec but consider other options later in the season is they're very much in contention and he's still struggling to hit righties. But either way once Duran comes up the Sox do have better options to mix and match. I don't think Franchy is somebody that Cora is completely sold on, not enough to be the front end of a platoon and take ABs away from Renfroe. It's nice that Franchy has some serious talent, but what matters more is how often you get the ball to go over the wall, rather than how hard it's hit or how far it goes. Frequency matters more and Franchy doesn't have that yet.
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Post by incandenza on May 25, 2021 11:00:31 GMT -5
Renfroe is an above-average hitter against lefties and plays great defense, but he has a 42 wRC+ vs. righties. For his career against righties he's .214/.262/.440, which is merely bad, but this season he's .189/.212/.347, which is unplayably awful. The problem is that he's gotten more than two-thirds of his plate appearances against righties.
Will he regress toward his career averages? Or is he just a worse hitter now? His numbers against lefties are also down from his career averages, though still pretty good.
Renfroe is basically what he has been. The more he plays the more I expect him to be what he has historically been. The Sox, as the year goes on, don't need to play him heavily against righties. And whether Franchy gets it together or not, they don't even need to rely on him either if Duran can come up and produce. You figure that the outfield will likely be either Duran/Hernandez/Verdugo against righties or Duran/Santana/Verdugo if they opt to put Hernandez at 2b. I have trouble believing that Kiké won't play most of the time, even against righties. He has played well thus far as he is now riding a hot streak, but if he regresses to career norms, Santana becomes more of an option in CF. The point I'm trying to make is that sooner or later the Sox can stop doing things that aren't to their advantage once Duran is ready. And Santana is helping with this. If Duran comes up and is effective, then Renfroe can probably stick with a platoon role, but that's far from a guarantee. Otherwise, between injuries and Cora-appointed off-days for other players, I'd expect Renfroe to keep getting well over half his PAs against righties.
Not that I think he needs to never play against righties; you might want to keep his defense on the field, depending on matchups and such. But there's a real ceiling to how productive he can be given his splits and likely usage.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 27, 2021 16:24:23 GMT -5
Nobody's going to say the RS have a great OF, but CB deserves credit for his efficient use of resources in constructing what we have so far.
We all love JBJ but he's rocking a 42 OPS-plus and has accounted for -.4 fWAR for his $12 million playing for the Milwaukee Beer Cans.
Current RS OFers Marwin Gonzalez, Hunter Renfroe, Danny Santana and Enrique Hernandez have accounted for a combined 1.2 WAR and are making a total of $13.9M in AAV. Throw in the versatility that the group provides and you'd have to say letting JBJ walk was an obvious and right decision.
Throwing Betts vs. Vedugo into the comparison, Betts is at 1.3 fWAR for an AAV of $25.6M while Verdugo is at 1 WAR for $650K.
Given that it's clear the RS wanted to stay under the luxury tax threshold, at least to start the season, it's hard to argue with what CB did in building the OF.
If I have a beef, it would be the two years for KKH. I'm just not high on him and wonder whether CB could have gotten a comparable player without committing to a second year.
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Post by manfred on May 27, 2021 17:08:34 GMT -5
Nobody's going to say the RS have a great OF, but CB deserves credit for his efficient use of resources in constructing what we have so far. We all love JBJ but he's rocking a 42 OPS-plus and has accounted for -.4 fWAR for his $12 million playing for the Milwaukee Beer Cans. Current RS OFers Marwin Gonzalez, Hunter Renfroe, Danny Santana and Enrique Hernandez have accounted for a combined 1.2 WAR and are making a total of $13.9M in AAV. Throw in the versatility that the group provides and you'd have to say letting JBJ walk was an obvious and right decision. Throwing Betts vs. Vedugo into the comparison, Betts is at 1.3 fWAR for an AAV of $25.6M while Verdugo is at 1 WAR for $650K. Given that it's clear the RS wanted to stay under the luxury tax threshold, at least to start the season, it's hard to argue with what CB did in building the OF. If I have a beef, it would be the two years for KKH. I'm just not high on him and wonder whether CB could have gotten a comparable player without committing to a second year. Here is the thing: a not very good but cheap outfield is only worth it if the money saved gets used well. So if they use the reset on the tax and the savings well, I am cool with this. If not, then saving money is the easiest thing in the world. Loser mid-market teams are constantly NOT signing good players or trading away their expensive guys. Ted Simmons could do that. So I think the only reasonable view of this outfield is incomplete: it is not a good outfield, but they knew that. So the pay-off is..... TBD.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on May 27, 2021 17:56:19 GMT -5
In regards to the OF looking around at who was available and what they've done so far this year. Who should the Red Sox have signed instead of what they did? The big prize who in my mind could have been the only difference maker was springer who has played 4 games this year. You can argue they should have signed a league average OF instead of throwing franchy in there for as long as they did but they did in Santana who unfortunately got hurt early.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 28, 2021 20:03:13 GMT -5
In regards to the OF looking around at who was available and what they've done so far this year. Who should the Red Sox have signed instead of what they did? The big prize who in my mind could have been the only difference maker was springer who has played 4 games this year. You can argue they should have signed a league average OF instead of throwing franchy in there for as long as they did but they did in Santana who unfortunately got hurt early. I agree, you can't expect to get the surprise guy every year. This year for cheap money Robbie Grossman has been a great find.
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