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5/9 Gameday Thread: For the Love of Baseball & Mothers
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2021 9:00:41 GMT -5
My guess is they want him working on incorporating the swing changes he worked on at Instructs the past 2 years at that level. He's still pretty slaptastic. I mean, if he's Juan Pierre then fine, but ideally you do what you can to try and let him become more than that. It's an interesting situation because with his defense, speed and contact skills he would already be a situational weapon. But it's way more important to see if he can develop into a power threat. I'd quibble with the idea his defense is a weapon. He has the tools to become a plus defender but he definitely is not one right now (see, e.g., the easy fly ball he dropped the other day). To show I'm not being a negative nancy, would add his arm to that list too though. So that's what plus plus speed looks like.... that is something to look forward to seeing in Boston. A 5 tool player in CF that started out as a 10,000 dollar IFA signing is the kind of lottery ticket win the Sox farm system could use. I know he has work to do but that package of athleticism, work ethic and skill is exciting to think about. Again, friendly quibble: that's what 80 speed looks like.  |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 10, 2021 9:13:07 GMT -5
Is 80 considered plus plus plus?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 10, 2021 9:31:33 GMT -5
It's an interesting situation because with his defense, speed and contact skills he would already be a situational weapon. But it's way more important to see if he can develop into a power threat. I'd quibble with the idea his defense is a weapon. He has the tools to become a plus defender but he definitely is not one right now (see, e.g., the easy fly ball he dropped the other day). To show I'm not being a negative nancy, would add his arm to that list too though. So that's what plus plus speed looks like.... that is something to look forward to seeing in Boston. A 5 tool player in CF that started out as a 10,000 dollar IFA signing is the kind of lottery ticket win the Sox farm system could use. I know he has work to do but that package of athleticism, work ethic and skill is exciting to think about. Again, friendly quibble: that's what 80 speed looks like. Quibble back, multiple places have said he slowed down a tad with the increase in body mass. That's what 70 speed looks like. 80 speed looks like my avatar. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2021 9:32:51 GMT -5
I'd quibble with the idea his defense is a weapon. He has the tools to become a plus defender but he definitely is not one right now (see, e.g., the easy fly ball he dropped the other day). To show I'm not being a negative nancy, would add his arm to that list too though. Again, friendly quibble: that's what 80 speed looks like. Quibble back, multiple places have said he slowed down a tad with the increase in body mass. That's what 70 speed looks like. 80 speed looks like Duran. On opening day we were discussing he ran a 3.9 on that ground ball to second. That's 80 speed. FWIW, we were the outlet reporting that his speed was down a tad based on reports we got from Instructs. Also, Duran has never been an 80 runner. I've only ever seen him graded as a 70. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2021 9:34:09 GMT -5
Is 80 considered plus plus plus? The term used is "elite." |
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Post by James Dunne on May 10, 2021 9:35:47 GMT -5
Duran has an 80-grade "don't get in that dude's way when he's running full speed" though.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 10, 2021 9:47:16 GMT -5
Duran has an 80-grade "don't get in that dude's way when he's running full speed" though. Two 80 speed grade OFers playing right and center in Fenway a few years down the road while also contributing at the top of the order and our farm system is not good? A rebuilt OF of Duran, Gimenez and Verdugo could be very very exciting. Imagine if the young guys progress enough to push Verdugo to left. |
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Post by Edward Hand on May 10, 2021 11:00:59 GMT -5
Jimenez still has a ways to go before he's ready and is far from a sure thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3 or 4 year deal for a steady but unspectacular free agent in the mold of Mark Canha or a healthy Adam Eaton to hold down the fort for a while.
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Post by ramireja on May 10, 2021 14:03:08 GMT -5
This whole Monday as an off day for the entire Minors is sending me into a little early week withdrawal.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on May 10, 2021 15:36:49 GMT -5
Duran has an 80-grade "don't get in that dude's way when he's running full speed" though. Two 80 speed grade OFers playing right and center in Fenway a few years down the road while also contributing at the top of the order and our farm system is not good? A rebuilt OF of Duran, Gimenez and Verdugo could be very very exciting. Imagine if the young guys progress enough to push Verdugo to left. Duran doesn’t have 80 grade speed, but your point still stands. Very fast OF if they can hit enough to start |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 10, 2021 15:47:07 GMT -5
Two 80 speed grade OFers playing right and center in Fenway a few years down the road while also contributing at the top of the order and our farm system is not good? A rebuilt OF of Duran, Gimenez and Verdugo could be very very exciting. Imagine if the young guys progress enough to push Verdugo to left. Duran doesn’t have 80 grade speed, but your point still stands. Very fast OF if they can hit enough to start James Dunn says he does and he knows everything.  |
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Post by congusgambler33 on May 10, 2021 15:52:59 GMT -5
Not having a Monday thread is going to be really weird. I guess we are going to have to get used to dead Mondays. How about playing the same team 6 games in a row and having to face their ace twice? |
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 10, 2021 15:58:52 GMT -5
Re: Jimenez and the future Red Sox OF.
Can a case be made that Jeisson Rosario is actually the best CF prospect in the system right now?
- Duran and Gilberto are blazing fast but JR ain't slow and he is, by all accounts, the superior defender of the 3 with a great arm (in his last active season he racked 15 OF ass as a 19 year old in High A)
- He has BY FAR the best strike zone awareness of the 3
- His contact rates are equal to those of Duran but he was much younger facing opposition
- In terms of Age Advancement: Being 21 at AA (3.1 AgeDif according to B-Ref) makes more challenged than Jimenez (AgeDif 1.4) and Duran (AgeDif 2.8).
He's trailing them only in terms of power but how much of it is speed driven (especially Jiminez case)? Maybe a swing retooling like the one Duran did will finally makes him unpack that athleticism he's oozing (He hit 2 2B last 2 games while using the Maine Monster yesterday)?
It's Monday folks with no MiLB boxes, just some food for thoughts 😁
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Post by James Dunne on May 10, 2021 16:33:49 GMT -5
Duran doesn’t have 80 grade speed, but your point still stands. Very fast OF if they can hit enough to start James Dunn says he does and he knows everything. Not quite what I said about Duran but your post is otherwise accurate. |
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Post by voiceofreason on May 10, 2021 17:47:41 GMT -5
Re: Jimenez and the future Red Sox OF. Can a case be made that Jeisson Rosario is actually the best CF prospect in the system right now? - Duran and Gilberto are blazing fast but JR ain't slow and he is, by all accounts, the superior defender of the 3 with a great arm (in his last active season he racked 15 OF ass as a 19 year old in High A) - He has BY FAR the best strike zone awareness of the 3 - His contact rates are equal to those of Duran but he was much younger facing opposition - In terms of Age Advancement: Being 21 at AA (3.1 AgeDif according to B-Ref) makes more challenged than Jimenez (AgeDif 1.4) and Duran (AgeDif 2.8). He's trailing them only in terms of power but how much of it is speed driven (especially Jiminez case)? Maybe a swing retooling like the one Duran did will finally makes him unpack that athleticism he's oozing (He hit 2 2B last 2 games while using the Maine Monster yesterday)? It's Monday folks with no MiLB boxes, just some food for thoughts 😁 Awesome!! All that means to me is the Sox minors are filled with great athletes with speed to supplement the OF in Fenway soon!! Really though I am not being sarcastic, for a system that is supposedly weak their is a lot to be optimistic about. Throw Casas, Downs and a plethora of promising pitchers in there and I am stoked for our bare system. Let me also say that many of those pitchers seem to have the traits that are now taking over pitching staffs. Big guys who throw hard, that's todays recipe. They can get away with having 2 pitches and getting thru the lineup once. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 10, 2021 23:57:14 GMT -5
Re Duran. For whatever reason, finding actual numbers is difficult. Maybe Ian will catch him and time him. Kiley McDaniel at Fangraphs has him as an 80 and there's this which puts him comfortably in the 80 grade speed nitch:
It is actually possible that Duran’s speed has been undersold to this point. While plus-plus speed has been assigned to Duran in multiple reports, his 16 SB in 21 attempts this year only tell part of the story. I caught Duran in the New York-Penn League last year and clocked him here home-to-first at 3.85 seconds.
This puts him at 80 grade speed: sub 4.0 seconds for a left handed hitter would signify the 80 grade. His 3.85 home-to-first time would put him 13th overall in MLB, among speedsters such as Starling Marte and Brett Gardner. Interestingly, Gardner is one of the main MLB comps thrown on Duran. Comps aside, Duran has the ability and growing technique to eclipse the 30 SB mark like these SB leaderboard mainstays. www.prospects1500.com/al-east/red-sox/if-you-dont-know-jarren-duran-get-to-know-him-now/ |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2021 7:57:10 GMT -5
Re Duran. For whatever reason, finding actual numbers is difficult. Maybe Ian will catch him and time him. Kiley McDaniel at Fangraphs has him as an 80 and there's this which puts him comfortably in the 80 grade speed nitch:
It is actually possible that Duran’s speed has been undersold to this point. While plus-plus speed has been assigned to Duran in multiple reports, his 16 SB in 21 attempts this year only tell part of the story. I caught Duran in the New York-Penn League last year and clocked him here home-to-first at 3.85 seconds.
This puts him at 80 grade speed: sub 4.0 seconds for a left handed hitter would signify the 80 grade. His 3.85 home-to-first time would put him 13th overall in MLB, among speedsters such as Starling Marte and Brett Gardner. Interestingly, Gardner is one of the main MLB comps thrown on Duran. Comps aside, Duran has the ability and growing technique to eclipse the 30 SB mark like these SB leaderboard mainstays. www.prospects1500.com/al-east/red-sox/if-you-dont-know-jarren-duran-get-to-know-him-now/Kiley is at ESPN now. He has Duran as a 70 runner. www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/30912426/kiley-mcdaniel-2021-american-league-team-team-prospect-rankings#bosThe current Fangraphs grade by Eric Longenhagen is a 70. blogs.fangraphs.com/top-47-prospects-boston-red-sox/Mlb.com, 70 run grade. www.mlb.com/prospects/redsox/jarren-duran-680776Baseball America, 70 speed grade www.baseballamerica.com/teams/1003/boston-red-sox/organizational/?year=2021&type=PSoxProspects.com player page, 70 speed soxprospects.com/players/duran-jarren.htmIan, Dec. 2020 State of the System, May 2020, 70 speed news.soxprospects.com/2020/05/state-of-system-20-outfielders.htmlCallis in March |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2021 8:09:54 GMT -5
Sam Dykstra of milb.com
MLB Pipeline
Callis in 2019
Pgammo
John Calvagno, 2018 (RIP)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 11, 2021 8:12:09 GMT -5
Now, the above mountain of evidence aside, it's quite possible he ran a 3.85 or two in Lowell on jailbreaks (and I got a 3.9 on the clip Ben Wilson posted on that Prospects1500 article as well!). So I'm clearly wrong in saying that he's "never been an 80 runner" in the sense that he's clearly run an 80 time before. But I've never seen an outlet that I put any stock in actually refer to him as an 80 runner.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 11, 2021 8:51:14 GMT -5
Re: Jimenez and the future Red Sox OF. Can a case be made that Jeisson Rosario is actually the best CF prospect in the system right now? - Duran and Gilberto are blazing fast but JR ain't slow and he is, by all accounts, the superior defender of the 3 with a great arm (in his last active season he racked 15 OF ass as a 19 year old in High A) - He has BY FAR the best strike zone awareness of the 3 - His contact rates are equal to those of Duran but he was much younger facing opposition - In terms of Age Advancement: Being 21 at AA (3.1 AgeDif according to B-Ref) makes more challenged than Jimenez (AgeDif 1.4) and Duran (AgeDif 2.8). He's trailing them only in terms of power but how much of it is speed driven (especially Jiminez case)? Maybe a swing retooling like the one Duran did will finally makes him unpack that athleticism he's oozing (He hit 2 2B last 2 games while using the Maine Monster yesterday)? It's Monday folks with no MiLB boxes, just some food for thoughts 😁 Rosario's a very interesting player and it will be great if his strong start is not a fluke. But not all players can gain power through lifting or changing a swing. He might always have Brock Holt power, though he's bigger and more athletic. And though fast he has not been a good base stealer. When I'm feeling optimistic I think that maybe the lost 2020 ml season has prevented a lot of guys from shining, and that with a good 2021 there may be ten more guys who wind up being as highly regarded as our current top 10 is right now. |
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 11, 2021 8:55:09 GMT -5
Re: Jimenez and the future Red Sox OF. Can a case be made that Jeisson Rosario is actually the best CF prospect in the system right now? - Duran and Gilberto are blazing fast but JR ain't slow and he is, by all accounts, the superior defender of the 3 with a great arm (in his last active season he racked 15 OF ass as a 19 year old in High A) - He has BY FAR the best strike zone awareness of the 3 - His contact rates are equal to those of Duran but he was much younger facing opposition - In terms of Age Advancement: Being 21 at AA (3.1 AgeDif according to B-Ref) makes more challenged than Jimenez (AgeDif 1.4) and Duran (AgeDif 2.8). He's trailing them only in terms of power but how much of it is speed driven (especially Jiminez case)? Maybe a swing retooling like the one Duran did will finally makes him unpack that athleticism he's oozing (He hit 2 2B last 2 games while using the Maine Monster yesterday)? It's Monday folks with no MiLB boxes, just some food for thoughts 😁 I would say no to can a case be made for Jeisson Rosario being the best CF prospect in the system. I'd say he projects to a #4 OF right now while Jimenez has a ceiling of a guy with some pop, blazing speed, and strong defense. I'd say Gilberto is the best CF prospect right now. He could be an all-star. Good hit tool. Speed. Developing power perhaps. Defense. Rosario has the better plate discipline by a lot, but I'd have to go with the hit tool at this point for Jimenez, plus everything else he brings. And if Rosario isn't more than a #4 OF, then you'd have to say that Duran is a better CF prospect. The odds of him playing every day in the majors is higher than Rosario I would think, even if Duran's defense in CF is questionable at this point. Of course Duran might wind up in LF negating him for the argument. I think the knock against Rosario was uncertainty regarding his hit tool. That and a lack of power. I think in a best case he's Juan Pierre, who had himself a good career, but if he doesn't hit enough, he's probably a #4 OF. He's one of those guys that if the hit tool develops, he could be quite a good leadoff hitter as he has a great eye at the plate, but if the hit tool doesn't develop enough, he'd probably get challenged more in the strike zone in the majors and could be exposed that way, although with his speed and defense and some on-base capabilities he would be a valued #4 OF who could start some on a mediocre team. |
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