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5/11-5/13 Red Sox vs. Athletics Series Thread
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Post by manfred on May 11, 2021 21:48:32 GMT -5
Pablo x10000000000000 worst contract in the history of sports, they literally gave him $95 million to hurt the team for a handful of years I’ll never forget the WOAT game I’ve ever seen played. I believe he picked up a golden sombrero and his belt snapped on him I put him down as one of the most hateable RS players of my lifetime because he admitted he let his conditioning go after making bank. He stole $95M from the RS and contributed greatly to a GM getting ousted. His only contribution was the economic lift he gave to the city's restaurants. And now... one of history’s great pinch hitters. 🤷♂️
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 11, 2021 21:50:25 GMT -5
Julio Lugo, Alfredo Aceves, and Eduardo Nunez are all fairly recent additions to my least enjoyed Red Sox of all time - Pablo indeed - Mark Gagne - and Hanley. (and most on this list had at least a few good moments...but NOT Franchy!)
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 11, 2021 21:53:45 GMT -5
is Puig playing anywhere? he could play a corner OF for this team Yeah, Mexico. And he’s there for a reason Wouldn’t worry too much, Duran’s not looking too far out Duran is also why the Red Sox did not go get another legitimate OF.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 11, 2021 21:55:11 GMT -5
Watching Franchy makes me wonder whether I can recall another RS player whose time with us was worse. After three PAs tonight, he was at .156/.217/.195, for a wRC+ of 16 and -.4 fWAR. He had 32 K's in 84 PAs. Criag Grebeck's 2001 stint comes to mind: He went two for 41 and 049/.093/.073 for wRC+ of -68 and fWAR of -.7. It's hard to forget, much less forgive, Pablo Sandoval, who signed a $95 million contact and put up -.1.7 WAR over parts of three seasons. Pablo x10000000000000 worst contract in the history of sports, they literally gave him $95 million to hurt the team for a handful of years I’ll never forget the WOAT game I’ve ever seen played. I believe he picked up a golden sombrero and his belt snapped on him Here you go: gfycat.com/kindlywillingballpythonI've also always loved Dustin Hermanson's 2002 season. He pulled a groin muscle in the second game of the year, a game that was rained out before it was official. He didn't take the mound again until July 20. I mean if the game wasn't played how could his groin remain injured? Everything else that happened in the first few innings got expunged from the record. As soon as the game was called off, his groin should have returned to its prior healthy state. Once he returned from his four months off with an injury in a game that wasn't played, he put up a 7.77 ERA, 1.91 WHIP and -.6 BRef WAR.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 11, 2021 21:58:46 GMT -5
Julio Lugo, Alfredo Aceves, and Eduardo Nunez are all fairly recent additions to my least enjoyed Red Sox of all time - Pablo indeed - Mark Gagne - and Hanley. (and most on this list had at least a few good moments...but NOT Franchy!) No way on Nunez! He went on a tear after we acquired him in 2017 and had the huge PH jack in 2018 WS Game 1 against the LAD. If we're thinking of off-the-field stuff, I guess wife-beater Wilfredo Cordero would be hard to top. I can't put Schilling there because the great majority of his douchery has taken place since his retirement.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 11, 2021 22:27:23 GMT -5
Julio Lugo, Alfredo Aceves, and Eduardo Nunez are all fairly recent additions to my least enjoyed Red Sox of all time - Pablo indeed - Mark Gagne - and Hanley. (and most on this list had at least a few good moments...but NOT Franchy!) No way on Nunez! He went on a tear after we acquired him in 2017 and had the huge PH jack in 2018 WS Game 1 against the LAD. If we're thinking of off-the-field stuff, I guess wife-beater Wilfredo Cordero would be hard to top. I can't put Schilling there because the great majority of his douchery has taken place since his retirement. Yeah, Nunez was my most challenging addition - but as many good things as he did, there was a lot of stinkiness (though to be fair, it was more the way that Cora decided to force him in). Ah yes, Cordero.
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Post by chrisfromnc on May 12, 2021 5:35:53 GMT -5
Sandoval is absolutely my least favorite acquisition. Carl Crawford is high on the list too.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on May 12, 2021 7:08:35 GMT -5
I put him down as one of the most hateable RS players of my lifetime because he admitted he let his conditioning go after making bank. He stole $95M from the RS and contributed greatly to a GM getting ousted. His only contribution was the economic lift he gave to the city's restaurants. And now... one of history’s great pinch hitters. 🤷♂️ wow, 20 PH's this year, 4 hrs, .294 .400 1.000 1.400 what would our record be if we had a PH hitting .250?
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,486
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Post by shagworthy on May 12, 2021 7:15:14 GMT -5
Julio Lugo, Alfredo Aceves, and Eduardo Nunez are all fairly recent additions to my least enjoyed Red Sox of all time - Pablo indeed - Mark Gagne - and Hanley. (and most on this list had at least a few good moments...but NOT Franchy!) No way on Nunez! He went on a tear after we acquired him in 2017 and had the huge PH jack in 2018 WS Game 1 against the LAD. If we're thinking of off-the-field stuff, I guess wife-beater Wilfredo Cordero would be hard to top. I can't put Schilling there because the great majority of his douchery has taken place since his retirement. Let us not forget that insufferable prick Mike Lansing.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,486
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Post by shagworthy on May 12, 2021 7:29:55 GMT -5
If I miss a Sox game, and if you tell me that X and JDM were hitless, I can tell you they lost. The Sox have a great record and could go all the way if JDM, X, and Devers continue to play out of their minds wire to wire. But the rest of the team is not a top-tier team. Now, Iâve said before... you might say that of all contenders â 3 stars and support. But a) that is *their* problem and b) the Sox do have a few unusually dismal starters. That said, you give me Kiké back and a new LF, and there could be a huge advance. No more Franchy, very little Renfroe, and Marwin as a real bench guy? Business time. They brought Arrauz up, he should have gotten the start today in place of Marwin imo. I like Marwin, he's a wiz defensively, but he's just not hitting enough for me, and considering the steep drop off our lineup has after #5 most nights, I'd like to see some changes to try different things. Bassitt pitched good last night, but it didn't seem like many of the Sox were up there to swing the bat either. Saw a lot of first pitch fastballs relatively center cut watched into the mitt, it's a double edged sword, I don't want them to be over aggressive, but I DO want them to be more aggressive when the ball is in the zone. It seems like they have two modes, aggressive and a little reckless, and passive/overly selective. Darwinzon can't be pitching in high leverage situations. Enough said. I'm less bullish on Kiké, could take him or leave him actually, but that opens up another can of worms in our outfield I guess. Renfroe has actually been making contact the past week and looks vastly different at the plate, but he should be platooning at best in the OF, what complicates things is Marwin has better numbers as a RH batter this year..
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nomar
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Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on May 12, 2021 8:07:26 GMT -5
Can’t rush Duran though. He’s raw in the field and he hasn’t been making consistent contact in the SSS of ST/May.
IMO we need to start seeing more Chavis in LF at the expense of Franchy though.
Expecting better from Renfroe and Dalbec going forward, maybe Marwin too, you get an average bat back in Kikè soon. There are ways to find marginal improvement without rushing Duran.
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Post by station13 on May 12, 2021 9:15:32 GMT -5
Darwinzon has a 8.00B/9 and walk 45 in 50IP for career.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 9:17:30 GMT -5
Yeah, Mexico. And he’s there for a reason Wouldn’t worry too much, Duran’s not looking too far out Duran is also why the Red Sox did not go get another legitimate OF. Sure, but during the off-season could they depend on a guy who hadn't even had a AAA AB? And if Bloom is following the Rays roadmap for prospects, that usually means a full or nearly full season in AAA before promotion. Meanwhile, get used to more games like last night where 4-5 guys are your only offensive threat - which means they pretty much all have to be clicking every night - and it looks like a game from 1965. Regardless, there is no way they should've depended on Corderro as an MLB OF given his track record, and he has shown everyone he has no business being in MLB right now. It involved a lot of magical thinking to put him there and the sparkle-dust has worn off. Now he's either got to live with an NL pitcher-type coming to the plate every 9 ABs, and a below AVE LF defensively, or start the clock on one of his prospects (Durran or Wilson). This all wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't gotten other offensive black holes Kiké and Renfroe to fill out the OF. A contending team can get a long with one or two of these guys as long as their ABs are limited, but three is a joke, never mind the current delusions Cora is having with Kiké and now Marwin leading off.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 9:20:43 GMT -5
That was an aggravating loss. For the first seven they couldn't really hit Bassitt. No big deal. It happens.
But they were still in the game at 3-2 and Sawamura pitched two strong innings giving them a chance and the A's closer Diekman comes in and can't throw a strike to save his life, so what happens, JDM, Devers, and Vazquez have bad ABs. Devers' AB was particularly brutal, lunging at pitches he should not be swinging at.
If the Red Sox are to stay atop of the division they need to win their home games and they need to complete comebacks that are set up on a silver platter for them like last night. Diekman gave them two free runners and committed the cardinal sin of walking the leadoff batter in a one run game. He Ottavino'd, but he still got away with it because of some overagressive/wreckless ABs.
They got more bad relief pitching where the walks were killers. Hernandez has a big arm but if he can't consistently throw strikes what difference does it make? He can't be trusted in high leverage and Ottavino didn't help the situation either. Unfortunately I don't think he can be trusted in high leverage either. Andriese has been struggling but at least he doesn't beat himself like these other relievers are doing.
Now if the Sox don't win tonight they face the possibility of being swept at home again, because Manaea is not a guy you want to face trying to stave off a sweep. Meanwhile the Yankees are starting to get their act together and they're now just 2 games out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 9:27:18 GMT -5
Duran is also why the Red Sox did not go get another legitimate OF. Sure, but during the off-season could they depend on a guy who hadn't even had a AAA AB? And if Bloom is following the Rays roadmap for prospects, that usually means a full or nearly full season in AAA before promotion. Meanwhile, get used to more games like last night where 4-5 guys are your only offensive threat - which means they pretty much all have to be clicking every night - and it looks like a game from 1965. Regardless, there is no way they should've depended on Corderro as an MLB OF given his track record, and he has shown everyone he has no business being in MLB right now. It involved a lot of magical thinking to put him there and the sparkle-dust has worn off. Now he's either got to live with an NL pitcher-type coming to the plate every 9 ABs, and a below AVE LF defensively, or start the clock on one of his prospects (Durran or Wilson). This all wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't gotten other offensive black holes Kiké and Renfroe to fill out the OF. A contending team can get a long with one or two of these guys as long as their ABs are limited, but three is a joke, never mind the current delusions Cora is having with Kiké and now Marwin leading off. His track record was one of injuries, not being horrifically bad. His OPS was a touch below average, not ridiculously awful. I hate to say it, but this kind of thing happens once in awhile. You get a player where you have expectations (in this case of him being decent) and you get nowhere near that. It was worse with guys like Mark Whiten and Tony Clark, two guys coming off strong seasons who were acquired to be a middle of the order presence and wound up being pathetic instead. The list is long beyond Crawford and Sandoval.
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Post by manfred on May 12, 2021 9:28:49 GMT -5
Duran is also why the Red Sox did not go get another legitimate OF. Sure, but during the off-season could they depend on a guy who hadn't even had a AAA AB? And if Bloom is following the Rays roadmap for prospects, that usually means a full or nearly full season in AAA before promotion. Meanwhile, get used to more games like last night where 4-5 guys are your only offensive threat - which means they pretty much all have to be clicking every night - and it looks like a game from 1965. Regardless, there is no way they should've depended on Corderro as an MLB OF given his track record, and he has shown everyone he has no business being in MLB right now. It involved a lot of magical thinking to put him there and the sparkle-dust has worn off. Now he's either got to live with an NL pitcher-type coming to the plate every 9 ABs, and a below AVE LF defensively, or start the clock on one of his prospects (Durran or Wilson). This all wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't gotten other offensive black holes Kiké and Renfroe to fill out the OF. A contending team can get a long with one or two of these guys as long as their ABs are limited, but three is a joke, never mind the current delusions Cora is having with Kiké and now Marwin leading off. I mostly agree with this... I was against Fran-n-Froe in the off season and said then the OF was moving backwards. I am high on Duran, but I also never *count* on prospects... we have no idea a plan to wait on him is a good plan. He is hardly one of those guys who just annihilated at every level. They clearly could have a) stayed relatively cheap; b) kept contract lengths flexible and c) gotten a better LF. (Brantley leaps out). But... I don’t view Kiké as a black hole. He’d be a fine offensive replacement for JBJ if LF didn’t suck. And Franchy has been fine defensively.
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Post by manfred on May 12, 2021 9:37:10 GMT -5
Sure, but during the off-season could they depend on a guy who hadn't even had a AAA AB? And if Bloom is following the Rays roadmap for prospects, that usually means a full or nearly full season in AAA before promotion. Meanwhile, get used to more games like last night where 4-5 guys are your only offensive threat - which means they pretty much all have to be clicking every night - and it looks like a game from 1965. Regardless, there is no way they should've depended on Corderro as an MLB OF given his track record, and he has shown everyone he has no business being in MLB right now. It involved a lot of magical thinking to put him there and the sparkle-dust has worn off. Now he's either got to live with an NL pitcher-type coming to the plate every 9 ABs, and a below AVE LF defensively, or start the clock on one of his prospects (Durran or Wilson). This all wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't gotten other offensive black holes Kiké and Renfroe to fill out the OF. A contending team can get a long with one or two of these guys as long as their ABs are limited, but three is a joke, never mind the current delusions Cora is having with Kiké and now Marwin leading off. His track record was one of injuries, not being horrifically bad. His OPS was a touch below average, not ridiculously awful. I hate to say it, but this kind of thing happens once in awhile. You get a player where you have expectations (in this case of him being decent) and you get nowhere near that. It was worse with guys like Mark Whiten and Tony Clark, two guys coming off strong seasons who were acquired to be a middle of the order presence and wound up being pathetic instead. The list is long beyond Crawford and Sandoval. This view of Franchy is one I’ve argued against before. He’s had four cups of coffee, and only one went particularly well. His second best taste saw a .237 BA, a .307 OBP. You take out a 9 game hot streak with the Padres, his career numbers look much worse. As they are, he is now at 124 games, with a .219/.285/.382. One can say that is mostly this year, but... in his 4 other seasons, he’s twice been +/-.10 BA relative to that career number, at or below that OBP 3/5 years. This is obviously worse than he’s been, but he has been bad. People seem to want to argue at once that he is a high-ceiling lottery ticket but ALSO that he was somehow reliable enough to ride into the regular season. I see the lottery ticket, but who wins the lottery?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 9:49:16 GMT -5
His track record was one of injuries, not being horrifically bad. His OPS was a touch below average, not ridiculously awful. I hate to say it, but this kind of thing happens once in awhile. You get a player where you have expectations (in this case of him being decent) and you get nowhere near that. It was worse with guys like Mark Whiten and Tony Clark, two guys coming off strong seasons who were acquired to be a middle of the order presence and wound up being pathetic instead. The list is long beyond Crawford and Sandoval. This view of Franchy is one I’ve argued against before. He’s had four cups of coffee, and only one went particularly well. His second best taste saw a .237 BA, a .307 OBP. You take out a 9 game hot streak with the Padres, his career numbers look much worse. As they are, he is now at 124 games, with a .219/.285/.382. One can say that is mostly this year, but... in his 4 other seasons, he’s twice been +/-.10 BA relative to that career number, at or below that OBP 3/5 years. This is obviously worse than he’s been, but he has been bad. People seem to want to argue at once that he is a high-ceiling lottery ticket but ALSO that he was somehow reliable enough to ride into the regular season. I see the lottery ticket, but who wins the lottery? All I can say is I hope that the prospects they get from the Mets and Royals make it worth this. They opened up a hole in LF. I bought in to the idea that Cordero had room for growth and that Beni is a finished product (which I still think he is - I think those Fred Lynn/Christian Yelich hopes aren't going to happen. He's just a really good player, which is quite valuable on a contending team, but not a great one you moan about losing for a decade or two). I think there's a better player in Cordero than what we've seen, but this in the lineup, out of the lineup, etc. He needs to play every day regardless of whether the pitcher is lefty or righty, and the best place for him to do that and struggle and get the issue fixed is in Worcester. Maybe Geddy can help him out. The Sox also passed on Khalil Lee as well, so hopefully what the Mets give them plus whether Winckowski can develop into a useful pitcher on the staff, plus whether the Sox can hit on the other two guys they're getting from KC, and if Duran can come up soon and help (getting more optimistic about that by the day) in LF, the Sox should be able to survive the hole Benintendi's departure opened up and hopefully recoup value in the trade even if Cordero doesn't amount to much.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 11:09:46 GMT -5
This view of Franchy is one I’ve argued against before. He’s had four cups of coffee, and only one went particularly well. His second best taste saw a .237 BA, a .307 OBP. You take out a 9 game hot streak with the Padres, his career numbers look much worse. As they are, he is now at 124 games, with a .219/.285/.382. One can say that is mostly this year, but... in his 4 other seasons, he’s twice been +/-.10 BA relative to that career number, at or below that OBP 3/5 years. This is obviously worse than he’s been, but he has been bad. People seem to want to argue at once that he is a high-ceiling lottery ticket but ALSO that he was somehow reliable enough to ride into the regular season. I see the lottery ticket, but who wins the lottery? All I can say is I hope that the prospects they get from the Mets and Royals make it worth this. They opened up a hole in LF. I bought in to the idea that Cordero had room for growth and that Beni is a finished product (which I still think he is - I think those Fred Lynn/Christian Yelich hopes aren't going to happen. He's just a really good player, which is quite valuable on a contending team, but not a great one you moan about losing for a decade or two). I think there's a better player in Cordero than what we've seen, but this in the lineup, out of the lineup, etc. He needs to play every day regardless of whether the pitcher is lefty or righty, and the best place for him to do that and struggle and get the issue fixed is in Worcester. Maybe Geddy can help him out. The Sox also passed on Khalil Lee as well, so hopefully what the Mets give them plus whether Winckowski can develop into a useful pitcher on the staff, plus whether the Sox can hit on the other two guys they're getting from KC, and if Duran can come up soon and help (getting more optimistic about that by the day) in LF, the Sox should be able to survive the hole Benintendi's departure opened up and hopefully recoup value in the trade even if Cordero doesn't amount to much. And I'm sorry, why trade this away when you're building a contender for a "maybe if he gets healthy and suddenly hits MLB pitching" guy like Corderro and some prospects who, as I recall, won't be from either team's top 10? I stand by my claim that Beni's MLB WAR will be better than all these lottery tickets combined. It's worse than the Reddick trade, which was really, really bad.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 12, 2021 12:05:28 GMT -5
Yeah I’m not gonna cry about dealing a corner OF who plays meh defense and slugs under .400 when I don’t know the return. That’s just me though!
To me it’s so much different than trading a bunch of pieces for a relief pitcher. I honestly don’t see the comparison at all.
For the record Marwin is 0.1 WAR off from him and many of y’all crap on him. SSS yeah, but gives you an idea of how stupid it is to cry about this trade for anything other than sentimental reasons at the moment. Especially when- and this is the key part- WE DONT KNOW THE MAJORITY OF THE DEAL YET
Also I haven’t given up on Franchy. Dude missed most of the spring with covid and is now in a weird spot getting sporadic playing time. He needs to be in Worcester so he can at least get out of the gate this season, perhaps get some momentum going
Now here is my question: is this the new Betts deal where people won’t stfu about it in every thread?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 12:14:15 GMT -5
All I can say is I hope that the prospects they get from the Mets and Royals make it worth this. They opened up a hole in LF. I bought in to the idea that Cordero had room for growth and that Beni is a finished product (which I still think he is - I think those Fred Lynn/Christian Yelich hopes aren't going to happen. He's just a really good player, which is quite valuable on a contending team, but not a great one you moan about losing for a decade or two). I think there's a better player in Cordero than what we've seen, but this in the lineup, out of the lineup, etc. He needs to play every day regardless of whether the pitcher is lefty or righty, and the best place for him to do that and struggle and get the issue fixed is in Worcester. Maybe Geddy can help him out. The Sox also passed on Khalil Lee as well, so hopefully what the Mets give them plus whether Winckowski can develop into a useful pitcher on the staff, plus whether the Sox can hit on the other two guys they're getting from KC, and if Duran can come up soon and help (getting more optimistic about that by the day) in LF, the Sox should be able to survive the hole Benintendi's departure opened up and hopefully recoup value in the trade even if Cordero doesn't amount to much. And I'm sorry, why trade this away when you're building a contender for a "maybe if he gets healthy and suddenly hits MLB pitching" guy like Corderro and some prospects who, as I recall, won't be from either team's top 10? I stand by my claim that Beni's MLB WAR will be better than all these lottery tickets combined. It's worse than the Reddick trade, which was really, really bad. Honestly, I think the Sox' good start has kind of caught Bloom by surprise. I don't think he expected the Sox to be contending for 1st place. He probably figured they'd be around .500 or a bit better so he probably thought it was worth it to downgrade this year's team a little to make the Sox future better. He probably figured the dropoff from Benintendi to Cordero wouldn't be as big as it appears to be. And he probably figured he had Duran in his back pocket to close the gap if the worst case scenario happened as far as Cordero is concerned. So that still leaves him with four other players who might provide as much if not more value than Benintendi, with that value coming during seasons Bloom figures the team should be favored to win, as opposed to a year like this year which has been a surprise thus far.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 12, 2021 14:12:09 GMT -5
Pablo x10000000000000 worst contract in the history of sports, they literally gave him $95 million to hurt the team for a handful of years I’ll never forget the WOAT game I’ve ever seen played. I believe he picked up a golden sombrero and his belt snapped on him I put him down as one of the most hateable RS players of my lifetime because he admitted he let his conditioning go after making bank. He stole $95M from the RS and contributed greatly to a GM getting ousted. His only contribution was the economic lift he gave to the city's restaurants. How about: what Hall of Famer had the worst first half-season on the Sox? How about Luis Aparicio? In his first season with us in 1971 at age 37, he was hitting .151 .203 .243 .446 on June 3, and finished at .232 .284 .303 .587. He could still field, and was actually an All-Star. The year before with the White Sox he had hit .313 .372 .404 .776. For Boston he was a little better in 1972, but also fell down rounding third in a crucial late-inning game and scrambled back to third to find Yaz standing there, and they lost the pennant in that strike-shortened season by 1/2 game. Impossible Dream 2b Mike Andrews, traded for Aparicio along with light-hitting young UTIL IF Luis Alvarado, hit .282 .400 .439 .840 for the White Sox in 1971. Aparicio tried hard, and people felt bad about his 1971 slump rather than hating him, I think.
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,486
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Post by shagworthy on May 12, 2021 15:19:06 GMT -5
I put him down as one of the most hateable RS players of my lifetime because he admitted he let his conditioning go after making bank. He stole $95M from the RS and contributed greatly to a GM getting ousted. His only contribution was the economic lift he gave to the city's restaurants. How about: what Hall of Famer had the worst first half-season on the Sox? How about Luis Aparicio? In his first season with us in 1971 at age 37, he was hitting .151 .203 .243 .446 on June 3, and finished at .232 .284 .303 .587. He could still field, and was actually an All-Star. The year before with the White Sox he had hit .313 .372 .404 .776. For Boston he was a little better in 1972, but also fell down rounding third in a crucial late-inning game and scrambled back to third to find Yaz standing there, and they lost the pennant in that strike-shortened season by 1/2 game. Impossible Dream 2b Mike Andrews, traded for Aparicio along with light-hitting young UTIL IF Luis Alvarado, hit .282 .400 .439 .840 for the White Sox in 1971. Aparicio tried hard, and people felt bad about his 1971 slump rather than hating him, I think. Maybe not hateable, but we've had a few long in the tooth HOF players signed at the end of their career with pretty ugly results... Seaver, Smoltz, Dawson, and a few hall of also rans that were equally putrid, Jack Clark, Rob Deer, Steve Avery, Jose Awfulman.. We could make two teams of the really bad signings over the years and pit them against each other for amusement sake..
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Post by manfred on May 12, 2021 15:45:44 GMT -5
How about: what Hall of Famer had the worst first half-season on the Sox? How about Luis Aparicio? In his first season with us in 1971 at age 37, he was hitting .151 .203 .243 .446 on June 3, and finished at .232 .284 .303 .587. He could still field, and was actually an All-Star. The year before with the White Sox he had hit .313 .372 .404 .776. For Boston he was a little better in 1972, but also fell down rounding third in a crucial late-inning game and scrambled back to third to find Yaz standing there, and they lost the pennant in that strike-shortened season by 1/2 game. Impossible Dream 2b Mike Andrews, traded for Aparicio along with light-hitting young UTIL IF Luis Alvarado, hit .282 .400 .439 .840 for the White Sox in 1971. Aparicio tried hard, and people felt bad about his 1971 slump rather than hating him, I think. Maybe not hateable, but we've had a few long in the tooth HOF players signed at the end of their career with pretty ugly results... Seaver, Smoltz, Dawson, and a few hall of also rans that were equally putrid, Jack Clark, Rob Deer, Steve Avery, Jose Awfulman.. We could make two teams of the really bad signings over the years and pit them against each other for amusement sake.. Seaver was very good. 1.9 bWAR in 16 starts. Got hurt. Sox win in ‘86 if he is healthy in the post-season. Oft forgotten how big a loss that was.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 15:47:15 GMT -5
How about: what Hall of Famer had the worst first half-season on the Sox? How about Luis Aparicio? In his first season with us in 1971 at age 37, he was hitting .151 .203 .243 .446 on June 3, and finished at .232 .284 .303 .587. He could still field, and was actually an All-Star. The year before with the White Sox he had hit .313 .372 .404 .776. For Boston he was a little better in 1972, but also fell down rounding third in a crucial late-inning game and scrambled back to third to find Yaz standing there, and they lost the pennant in that strike-shortened season by 1/2 game. Impossible Dream 2b Mike Andrews, traded for Aparicio along with light-hitting young UTIL IF Luis Alvarado, hit .282 .400 .439 .840 for the White Sox in 1971. Aparicio tried hard, and people felt bad about his 1971 slump rather than hating him, I think. Maybe not hateable, but we've had a few long in the tooth HOF players signed at the end of their career with pretty ugly results... Seaver, Smoltz, Dawson, and a few hall of also rans that were equally putrid, Jack Clark, Rob Deer, Steve Avery, Jose Awfulman.. We could make two teams of the really bad signings over the years and pit them against each other for amusement sake.. I would say that I wouldn't include Seaver on the list. He actually pitched reasonably well (3.81 ERA) for the Red Sox during his time in 1986. Without Seaver, the Sox would have had to use guys like Rob Woodward and Jeff Sellers more and that would have been quite ugly. Seaver stabilized the rotation and as Bruce Hurst often said, "He and Clemens attended the University of Seaver" that summer and it was a valuable thing. The shame of it is that he got injured and that might have swung the Series toward the Sox had he been healthy. Jack Clark, by OPS standards, was good in 1991, but he fell apart in 1992 which made them get Dawson, who was washed up by the time he went to the Sox in 1993, the same year the Sox signed Ivan Calderon who was even worse and got released. And two years later the Sox acquired Mark Whiten who was brutally bad, which opened up playing time for Troy O'Leary, and traded away for Dave Hollins, the same Hollins who the following year went to Minnesota and was traded to Seattle for some guy named David Arias. Offerman did give the Sox one decent year where he hit about .290 and drew enough walks to be a capable leadoff guy, even though he was the anti-Pedroia on defense. Of course the 3 years that followed were Awfulman. And Lugo felt like a similar signing although you can argue that he was good during the 2nd half of the 2007 season. And yeah Smoltz was a low cost gamble that seemed like it could pay off, but didn't. He was bad, unfortunately. They tried a similar experiment the year before with Bartolo Colon, but he was undependable. And I remember Avery, too. He got that last start in 1997, the year he was supposed to be the ace between Clemens' departure and Pedro's arrival. That start caused his contract to extend another year where he was mediocre but pitched well enough to sort of help the 1998 Sox (the alternatives to start would have probably been worse). But the bigger thing was the friction it caused between Duquette and Jimy Williams which eventually lead to his firing as Duquette wanted to cut his losses with Avery and Jimy didn't think it was right to withhold his final start to deprive him of a contract milestone.
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