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5/11-5/13 Red Sox vs. Athletics Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 16:12:31 GMT -5
And I'm sorry, why trade this away when you're building a contender for a "maybe if he gets healthy and suddenly hits MLB pitching" guy like Corderro and some prospects who, as I recall, won't be from either team's top 10? I stand by my claim that Beni's MLB WAR will be better than all these lottery tickets combined. It's worse than the Reddick trade, which was really, really bad. H onestly, I think the Sox' good start has kind of caught Bloom by surprise. I don't think he expected the Sox to be contending for 1st place. He probably figured they'd be around .500 or a bit better so he probably thought it was worth it to downgrade this year's team a little to make the Sox future better. He probably figured the dropoff from Benintendi to Cordero wouldn't be as big as it appears to be.And he probably figured he had Duran in his back pocket to close the gap if the worst case scenario happened as far as Cordero is concerned. So that still leaves him with four other players who might provide as much if not more value than Benintendi, with that value coming during seasons Bloom figures the team should be favored to win, as opposed to a year like this year which has been a surprise thus far. It's a game of adjustments, so does Bloom adjust? Or does he decide to let a potential contending season - which is difficult to attain and not guaranteed to be reproducible - wither away so he can build "sustainability" down the road? Also, unless those prospects are near MLB ready, what team and seasons are we talking about? Because he has a strong core right now and no sign of much more than contributing players in the minors. Sure, there are a few who have high ceilings if all goes perfectly, but even the ceiling of their projected best player, Casas, is an above average MLB player, and not at a high value position. As for the pitching, looking at the Sox Prospects scouting reports, there are few who project to be more than #5 starters, and those that perhaps do - Groome (ceiling 2/3) Song (ceiling 3) - are ultimate best case scenarios and years away. I mean, I love the potential of Durran and see him a possible AVE or Above AVE MLB CF in his prime, but he, Casas and Downs are potentially good to very good contributing pieces, not a star or near star core like they have now - and other than Durran - who might be brought up because of expediency rather than forcing his way onto the team they look to be 1-3 years away at best.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 12, 2021 16:21:21 GMT -5
H onestly, I think the Sox' good start has kind of caught Bloom by surprise. I don't think he expected the Sox to be contending for 1st place. He probably figured they'd be around .500 or a bit better so he probably thought it was worth it to downgrade this year's team a little to make the Sox future better. He probably figured the dropoff from Benintendi to Cordero wouldn't be as big as it appears to be.And he probably figured he had Duran in his back pocket to close the gap if the worst case scenario happened as far as Cordero is concerned. So that still leaves him with four other players who might provide as much if not more value than Benintendi, with that value coming during seasons Bloom figures the team should be favored to win, as opposed to a year like this year which has been a surprise thus far. It's a game of adjustments, so does Bloom adjust? Or does he decide to let a potential contending season - which is difficult to attain and not guaranteed to be reproducible - wither away so he can build "sustainability" down the road? Also, unless those prospects are near MLB ready, what team and seasons are we talking about? Because he has a strong core right now and no sign of much more than contributing players in the minors. Sure, there are a few who have high ceilings if all goes perfectly, but even the ceiling of their projected best player, Casas, is an above average MLB player, and not at a high value position. As for the pitching, looking at the Sox Prospects scouting reports, there are few who project to be more than #5 starters, and those that perhaps do - Groome (ceiling 2/3) Song (ceiling 3) - are ultimate best case scenarios and years away. I mean, I love the potential of Durran and see him a possible AVE or Above AVE MLB CF in his prime, but he, Casas and Downs are potentially good to very good contributing pieces, not a star or near star core like they have now - and other than Durran - who might be brought up because of expediency rather than forcing his way onto the team they look to be 1-3 years away at best. I understand your point. I think Ben Cherington was in a similar situation. I don't think he anticipated being in serious contention in 2013. He was thinking down the road at 2016 or thereabouts. But still, he didn't go crazy in trying to help the team. He added Peavy to stabilize the rotation sacrificing Jose Iglesias (and Frankie Montas) knowing he had a young Xander Bogaerts in the wings. Similarly, if the Sox stay afloat this year I can see Bloom trying to help the team but he won't be trying to acquire Scherzer or anybody that will cause a big hit to the system. I understand your point about what greatness do they have coming up through the system? I'd say that Casas and Jimenez can be all-star level talent perhaps, but to your larger point, no, the guys they have now don't project to the next Betts/X/Devers/Benintendi/JBJ/Vazquez core. But that said, there's no reason why you couldn't extend one or both of Devers and X and still have money to sign impact players or spread around for really good players. The idea is if you can develop enough good useful players that you don't have to spend big bucks to fill in the gaps, that can help save money to acquire talent while using good players to fill gaps, the ability to fill holes with guys who can be league average or good as opposed to replacement level players. That's where farm system depth comes in and helps where a top heavy system doesn't. Looking around the Sox do have prospects coming up that specifically fit their needs. At some point they could have a talented outfield of Duran/Jimenez/Verdugo. Casas and Downs could join X and Devers in the infield. Theoretically the Sox could draft Kumar and he could be ready within a few years to join the rotation. Their pitching depth that they currently do have shows more promise than they've had in awhile and Bloom seems to always be looking to add to it. So while you might not think that the lineup I'm showing looks like an all-star squad it could be a very solid lineup that they have in Boston while they continue to work on the system below it. Maybe somebody like a Miguel Bleis develops or whatever, but I think it's doable if they scout and develop well.
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Post by jbsox on May 12, 2021 17:06:50 GMT -5
It's a game of adjustments, so does Bloom adjust? Or does he decide to let a potential contending season - which is difficult to attain and not guaranteed to be reproducible - wither away so he can build "sustainability" down the road? Also, unless those prospects are near MLB ready, what team and seasons are we talking about? Because he has a strong core right now and no sign of much more than contributing players in the minors. Sure, there are a few who have high ceilings if all goes perfectly, but even the ceiling of their projected best player, Casas, is an above average MLB player, and not at a high value position. As for the pitching, looking at the Sox Prospects scouting reports, there are few who project to be more than #5 starters, and those that perhaps do - Groome (ceiling 2/3) Song (ceiling 3) - are ultimate best case scenarios and years away. I mean, I love the potential of Durran and see him a possible AVE or Above AVE MLB CF in his prime, but he, Casas and Downs are potentially good to very good contributing pieces, not a star or near star core like they have now - and other than Durran - who might be brought up because of expediency rather than forcing his way onto the team they look to be 1-3 years away at best. I understand your point. I think Ben Cherington was in a similar situation. I don't think he anticipated being in serious contention in 2013. He was thinking down the road at 2016 or thereabouts. But still, he didn't go crazy in trying to help the team. He added Peavy to stabilize the rotation sacrificing Jose Iglesias (and Frankie Montas) knowing he had a young Xander Bogaerts in the wings. Similarly, if the Sox stay afloat this year I can see Bloom trying to help the team but he won't be trying to acquire Scherzer or anybody that will cause a big hit to the system. I understand your point about what greatness do they have coming up through the system? I'd say that Casas and Jimenez can be all-star level talent perhaps, but to your larger point, no, the guys they have now don't project to the next Betts/X/Devers/Benintendi/JBJ/Vazquez core. But that said, there's no reason why you couldn't extend one or both of Devers and X and still have money to sign impact players or spread around for really good players. The idea is if you can develop enough good useful players that you don't have to spend big bucks to fill in the gaps, that can help save money to acquire talent while using good players to fill gaps, the ability to fill holes with guys who can be league average or good as opposed to replacement level players. That's where farm system depth comes in and helps where a top heavy system doesn't. Looking around the Sox do have prospects coming up that specifically fit their needs. At some point they could have a talented outfield of Duran/Jimenez/Verdugo. Casas and Downs could join X and Devers in the infield. Theoretically the Sox could draft Kumar and he could be ready within a few years to join the rotation. Their pitching depth that they currently do have shows more promise than they've had in awhile and Bloom seems to always be looking to add to it. So while you might not think that the lineup I'm showing looks like an all-star squad it could be a very solid lineup that they have in Boston while they continue to work on the system below it. Maybe somebody like a Miguel Bleis develops or whatever, but I think it's doable if they scout and develop well. I sure hope we extend both Devers AND X as you say as I’m not sure Martinez at age 33 is long for this team. He can opt out after this season, and be a UFA after 2022. He is having phenomenal start to the season helping catapult the Sox offense to the very top in baseball. So as far as a future outlook if we lose JD in the next year or 2, and players like Downs and Casas are merely above average it probably won’t make up for JD’s loss. I’m hoping Casas specifically can mash at the major league level to help replace the day when JD is not here (unless JD pulls a Big Papi on us and keeps defeating age lol). With some money coming off the books in the next couple years maybe we’ll look for a younger masher in the FA market.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 12, 2021 17:07:09 GMT -5
Maybe not hateable, but we've had a few long in the tooth HOF players signed at the end of their career with pretty ugly results... Seaver, Smoltz, Dawson, and a few hall of also rans that were equally putrid, Jack Clark, Rob Deer, Steve Avery, Jose Awfulman.. We could make two teams of the really bad signings over the years and pit them against each other for amusement sake.. Seaver was very good. 1.9 bWAR in 16 starts. Got hurt. Sox win in ‘86 if he is healthy in the post-season. Oft forgotten how big a loss that was. True Sox win easier if Seaver is healthy, but if Stapleton had been put in for Buckner as a defensive replacement they would have won..... The announcers had already awarded Bruce Hurst the WS MVP as they were only one strike away from winning the WS. Omg, do not want to relive any more of it🥲
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 17:44:59 GMT -5
I understand your point. I think Ben Cherington was in a similar situation. I don't think he anticipated being in serious contention in 2013. He was thinking down the road at 2016 or thereabouts. But still, he didn't go crazy in trying to help the team. He added Peavy to stabilize the rotation sacrificing Jose Iglesias (and Frankie Montas) knowing he had a young Xander Bogaerts in the wings. Similarly, if the Sox stay afloat this year I can see Bloom trying to help the team but he won't be trying to acquire Scherzer or anybody that will cause a big hit to the system. I understand your point about what greatness do they have coming up through the system? I'd say that Casas and Jimenez can be all-star level talent perhaps, but to your larger point, no, the guys they have now don't project to the next Betts/X/Devers/Benintendi/JBJ/Vazquez core. But that said, there's no reason why you couldn't extend one or both of Devers and X and still have money to sign impact players or spread around for really good players. The idea is if you can develop enough good useful players that you don't have to spend big bucks to fill in the gaps, that can help save money to acquire talent while using good players to fill gaps, the ability to fill holes with guys who can be league average or good as opposed to replacement level players. That's where farm system depth comes in and helps where a top heavy system doesn't. Looking around the Sox do have prospects coming up that specifically fit their needs. At some point they could have a talented outfield of Duran/Jimenez/Verdugo. Casas and Downs could join X and Devers in the infield. Theoretically the Sox could draft Kumar and he could be ready within a few years to join the rotation. Their pitching depth that they currently do have shows more promise than they've had in awhile and Bloom seems to always be looking to add to it. So while you might not think that the lineup I'm showing looks like an all-star squad it could be a very solid lineup that they have in Boston while they continue to work on the system below it. Maybe somebody like a Miguel Bleis develops or whatever, but I think it's doable if they scout and develop well. I sure hope we extend both Devers AND X as you say as I’m not sure Martinez at age 33 is long for this team. He can opt out after this season, and be a UFA after 2022. He is having phenomenal start to the season helping catapult the Sox offense to the very top in baseball. So as far as a future outlook if we lose JD in the next year or 2, and players like Downs and Casas are merely above average it probably won’t make up for JD’s loss. I’m hoping Casas specifically can mash at the major league level to help replace the day when JD is not here ( unless JD pulls a Big Papi on us and keeps defeating age lol). With some money coming off the books in the next couple years maybe we’ll look for a younger masher in the FA market. I actually think, barring injury, JD could be productive well into mid to late 30s. I do not think he will opt out unless they end up with a universal DH. I also don’t think Kumar falls to the Sox at #4, but stranger things have happened.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 18:28:16 GMT -5
That was a run. What the hell holding him up?
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Post by jkfer98 on May 12, 2021 18:31:04 GMT -5
I can’t believe they didn’t send Marwin lol wow
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Post by jkfer98 on May 12, 2021 18:33:52 GMT -5
I can’t believe they didn’t send Marwin lol wow All is forgiven, carry on!
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Post by soxfaninnj on May 12, 2021 18:34:36 GMT -5
Knock out punch please
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Post by soxfaninnj on May 12, 2021 18:35:02 GMT -5
Ump ruined that entire ab
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 18:37:07 GMT -5
Brutal squander.
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Post by soxfaninnj on May 12, 2021 18:39:48 GMT -5
This umpire is just guessing now
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 18:40:55 GMT -5
Devers swinging on a 1-0 pitch, glad he learned nothing from last night. Some needs to have a serious talk with him. He expands the zone without considering how the pitcher is throwing or the situation.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 12, 2021 18:41:15 GMT -5
Renfroe is a stud in RF
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Post by jkfer98 on May 12, 2021 18:41:29 GMT -5
Absolute CANNON Hunter, holy crap
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Post by manfred on May 12, 2021 18:41:37 GMT -5
Renfroe can’t hit, but you don’t wanna run on him.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 18:41:59 GMT -5
Brilliant throw by Renfroe.
That’s the worst feeling when you start your slide and you see the ball just beat you to the base.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 18:45:45 GMT -5
Aaaannnnd the squander of last inning already biting on the butt.
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Post by manfred on May 12, 2021 18:57:25 GMT -5
If JD batted between 7-9, would he be hitting .200? Is it a curse?
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Post by Canseco on May 12, 2021 19:09:19 GMT -5
Sorry if this was already answered, but who is this in the booth with Dave and Eck?
Edit: Disregard. I heard it’s Ellis Burks.
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Post by unitspin on May 12, 2021 19:15:53 GMT -5
Lol, cora's lineups lately are not doing the sox any favors neither are his bullpen moves.
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Post by Guidas on May 12, 2021 19:19:41 GMT -5
Meat of the order sees all of six pitches with a guy whose had issues finding the plate tonight.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,937
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Post by cdj on May 12, 2021 19:28:11 GMT -5
Great sell job Vazqy
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 12, 2021 19:36:42 GMT -5
Its a reasonable question whether Franchy will get another hit in the mlb.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 12, 2021 19:38:04 GMT -5
Casas 2 HRs tonight and 4 RBIs
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