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Post by incandenza on Sept 19, 2022 20:18:08 GMT -5
The big takeaway here is that he's an 80 on the coachability scale.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 20, 2022 9:40:09 GMT -5
“I think that was something that was received really well and he continues to ask great questions and wants to learn,” Hill said. “It was something to be able to see the other night where he took that (curveball) and brought it into the game and then after he came out of the game he was showing me a couple of the videos of the curveballs he threw a few times in the game, which was really good.” ... “It fits with how he does things,” Bush said. “His aptitude is really high and his willingness to try things is great, openness and willingness and get feedback right away too, whether he likes or doesn’t like it. I think that process he’s been really good at, and that’s what’s helped him make adjustments quickly at this level.” ... “There are challenges in learning how to communicate, not everyone speaks the same language,” Bush said. “I try to speak a little Spanish as best I can. He’s been very determined to learn English. He’s done a really good job with it really fast. In some ways I try to meet him halfway and do the best I can with Spanish and other times he’s like, ‘No, I want to do this in English,’ and is determined to learn it, and it’s been really good.” theathletic.com/3609429/2022/09/20/brayan-bello-learning-curveball-red-sox/Love this guy
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 20, 2022 11:07:26 GMT -5
The more I see from him and read about him the more I legitimately think he can be a #1
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 20, 2022 13:16:51 GMT -5
Finally one is in the cusp of really helping the big league club and more are starting to pop up down in the farm. It took some years but hopefully we gonna see some homegrown pitchers take big roles.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 20, 2022 16:58:23 GMT -5
I definitely like the way Bello carries himself on the mound. He has excellent composure. I don't know if he'll be an ace but there's a pretty good chance he'll be their best starter in 2023 and going forward.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2022 11:21:56 GMT -5
Bello has a 2.67 ERA as a starter since his recall in mid-late August, but if you adjust for Ort allowing all 3 of his inherited runners (the run expectancy was 1.2 runs), plus accurately assess the two errors made behind him in the Yankees inning, it's 2.39. If you just adjust for Ort, it's 2.13.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 21, 2022 11:52:30 GMT -5
That all makes sense. I've watched a good part of his starts off to the side (on a second monitor!). He's going to be outstanding. I'd expect that he was approached by team members after the gaffs that set him up for unearned runs a few starts back. That stuff was ugly.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2022 12:05:18 GMT -5
The more I see from him and read about him the more I legitimately think he can be a #1 This is very interesting ... Eovaldi is apparently his #1 role model. Nate is one of the rare guys that throws cutter, slider, and curve. The cutter is the easiest pitch to learn of the three and the curve is the toughest. (The slider produces the most success relative to learning curve, so it's a good choice as a first breaking ball to master.)
It's a little counter-intuitive, but if you plan to learn both a curve and a cutter, and you are confident you can learn both. you start with the curve since it takes longer to master.
I think it almost certain that Bello adds a cutter next year at some point. His 4-seamer and sinker are so distinct that they really count as two pitches (not always the case). So we're talking about six pitches, most or all of them average or better (with at least 2 high up in plus territory), plus the smarts to use them to maximal effect. (Note that adding a pitch that gets a bit below-average results can still be an overall win, as it gives hitters miore to think about and makes all the other pitchers a bit better.)
This is the sort of thing you can't pick up by scouting his stuff.
Note that Eduardo Rodriguez, not quite the coachability poster-child, learned the cutter in his second season and never tried to learn a curve, even though he
had no pitch that broke to his glove side (his slider was pretty much vertical).
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 21, 2022 12:26:25 GMT -5
“I think that was something that was received really well and he continues to ask great questions and wants to learn,” Hill said. “It was something to be able to see the other night where he took that (curveball) and brought it into the game and then after he came out of the game he was showing me a couple of the videos of the curveballs he threw a few times in the game, which was really good.” ... “It fits with how he does things,” Bush said. “His aptitude is really high and his willingness to try things is great, openness and willingness and get feedback right away too, whether he likes or doesn’t like it. I think that process he’s been really good at, and that’s what’s helped him make adjustments quickly at this level.” ... “There are challenges in learning how to communicate, not everyone speaks the same language,” Bush said. “I try to speak a little Spanish as best I can. He’s been very determined to learn English. He’s done a really good job with it really fast. In some ways I try to meet him halfway and do the best I can with Spanish and other times he’s like, ‘No, I want to do this in English,’ and is determined to learn it, and it’s been really good.” theathletic.com/3609429/2022/09/20/brayan-bello-learning-curveball-red-sox/Love this guy Just posted this comment ...
Jen, Statcast vertical movement includes that caused by gravity, so the harder you throw, the less movement it measures. I have no idea why they do it that way only, instead of giving you an option to see it either way.
PitchInfo has the numbers that reflect the true movement quality of the pitch. Bello is getting 9.2" of break from spin, tied for second on the team with ... Rich Hill. Pivetta has 11.8", which is 6th-best in MLB.
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I mean, this is silly. He's thrown it twice and, out of the box he's getting 37% more break than Barnes.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 22, 2022 12:31:53 GMT -5
“I think that was something that was received really well and he continues to ask great questions and wants to learn,” Hill said. “It was something to be able to see the other night where he took that (curveball) and brought it into the game and then after he came out of the game he was showing me a couple of the videos of the curveballs he threw a few times in the game, which was really good.” ... “It fits with how he does things,” Bush said. “His aptitude is really high and his willingness to try things is great, openness and willingness and get feedback right away too, whether he likes or doesn’t like it. I think that process he’s been really good at, and that’s what’s helped him make adjustments quickly at this level.” ... “There are challenges in learning how to communicate, not everyone speaks the same language,” Bush said. “I try to speak a little Spanish as best I can. He’s been very determined to learn English. He’s done a really good job with it really fast. In some ways I try to meet him halfway and do the best I can with Spanish and other times he’s like, ‘No, I want to do this in English,’ and is determined to learn it, and it’s been really good.” theathletic.com/3609429/2022/09/20/brayan-bello-learning-curveball-red-sox/Love this guy Just posted this comment ...
Jen, Statcast vertical movement includes that caused by gravity, so the harder you throw, the less movement it measures. I have no idea why they do it that way only, instead of giving you an option to see it either way.
PitchInfo has the numbers that reflect the true movement quality of the pitch. Bello is getting 9.2" of break from spin, tied for second on the team with ... Rich Hill. Pivetta has 11.8", which is 6th-best in MLB.
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I mean, this is silly. He's thrown it twice and, out of the box he's getting 37% more break than Barnes.
Bello looks like a top of the rotation starter if he can command the baseball with consistency.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 23, 2022 3:04:13 GMT -5
Just posted this comment ...
Jen, Statcast vertical movement includes that caused by gravity, so the harder you throw, the less movement it measures. I have no idea why they do it that way only, instead of giving you an option to see it either way.
PitchInfo has the numbers that reflect the true movement quality of the pitch. Bello is getting 9.2" of break from spin, tied for second on the team with ... Rich Hill. Pivetta has 11.8", which is 6th-best in MLB.
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I mean, this is silly. He's thrown it twice and, out of the box he's getting 37% more break than Barnes.
Bello looks like a top of the rotation starter if he can ^ command the baseball with consistency. I think you left out the phrase "continue to" at the point indicated.
Besides the curve (and then a cutter), there are two things he needs to work on. He's had a tendency to struggling at first with his stretch mechanics when he hasn't needed to use them for a few innings. And he's actual overshot the mark in going after hitters aggressively with the bases empty--he has a 4:1 K/W ratio versus 2 : 1 withe men on, but he's actually pitched better with men on (despite the occasional mechanical struggle) because the extra walks are more than offset by weaker contact. Clay Buchholz made exactly that adjustment early in 2010.
I think that when trying to find that sweet spot, it's immensely easier to start by going all-in with challenging hitters to hit your stuff, and then back off a bit and add some nibble to the mix, than it is to slowly work your way up to the right degree of challenge.
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Post by manfred on Sept 23, 2022 9:06:30 GMT -5
Who was the last homegrown pitcher that was this exciting? Buch? Lester?
You all can do the analyses, but to me the thing I love? Guy is must- watch. He is just exciting every pitch. Will he throw it 98? Will the ball move in a way that defies physics? Who knows? Love it.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 23, 2022 10:03:10 GMT -5
Who was the last homegrown pitcher that was this exciting? Buch? Lester? You all can do the analyses, but to me the thing I love? Guy is must- watch. He is just exciting every pitch. Will he throw it 98? Will the ball move in a way that defies physics? Who knows? Love it. Totally agree and to answer your question for me personally, Buchholz. I remember feeling some pre-debut hype for Henry Owens, but not nearly as much once I actually saw him pitch. If Bello can really become the homegrown top of rotation guy they haven't gotten since Lester, that completely changes the team-building outlook / upside in the next few years (obviously can't bank on that for team building purposes in 2023, but if he shows out next year then moving forward that's just a massive asset).
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 23, 2022 10:19:52 GMT -5
If exciting is the the keyword here, I'm think it's Papelbon. We were excited for Lester and Clay because we thought they had a chance to be great. But with Pap, it was pure electricity, anyone else remember that spring training where he fired one up and in at Orioles legend Sammy Sosa in retaliation for Youk being drilled?? For me, that's when I was like, ya, he's different.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 23, 2022 10:50:53 GMT -5
If we're taking most recent in time, it's Buchholz without question. He was BA Top 5 at one point.
Later became my first lesson in AAA success does not necessarily lead to equivalent MLB success. I legit thought he was a future ace.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 23, 2022 11:33:43 GMT -5
If we're taking most recent in time, it's Buchholz without question. He was BA Top 5 at one point. Later became my first lesson in AAA success does not necessarily lead to equivalent MLB success. I legit thought he was a future ace. SP comp was Clemens, IIRC? I do miss those player comps, but the blowback on player and publication if they don't live up to it just isn't worth it.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 23, 2022 11:50:12 GMT -5
If we're taking most recent in time, it's Buchholz without question. He was BA Top 5 at one point. Later became my first lesson in AAA success does not necessarily lead to equivalent MLB success. I legit thought he was a future ace. SP comp was Clemens, IIRC? I do miss those player comps, but the blowback on player and publication if they don't live up to it just isn't worth it. Had to check, it was Matt Morris, then Chris Carpenter, than right handed Cole Hammels.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 23, 2022 11:59:37 GMT -5
If we're taking most recent in time, it's Buchholz without question. He was BA Top 5 at one point. Later became my first lesson in AAA success does not necessarily lead to equivalent MLB success. I legit thought he was a future ace. Buchholz was so frustrating because the stuff was there to be a better pitcher than he ultimately turned out to be, he would have those dominant stretches and then fall flat on his face, whether by injury or some other mental funk.
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Post by 0ap0 on Sept 23, 2022 12:53:12 GMT -5
Buchholz was so frustrating because the stuff was there to be a better pitcher than he ultimately turned out to be, he would have those dominant stretches and then fall flat on his face, whether by injury or some other mental funk. pitching is hard
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 24, 2022 1:09:52 GMT -5
Lost in all this discussion is that he'll cease to be a 2023 rookie with 2.2 more IP, which should happen Sunday night on national TV.
(Tyler Danish is 0.2 IP shy; Winck, Crawford and Schreiber went over a while ago, while Seabold, and all the other relievers will still be rookies next year.)
Back to A Game of Clones ...
Who was the last Sox rookie starting pitcher who had exciting success and ...
... whose FB averaged 97 mph or better? Clemens? (Kopech and Montas if we hadn't dealt them.)
... who had no pedigree at all in terms of draft position or FA signing bonus? Anyone? (E-Rod, BTW, signed with the O's for $175K, so it's not him.)
Bryan Mata would be another, BTW.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 24, 2022 8:39:06 GMT -5
I'm hoping they shut him down for the season now that the Sox are eliminated.
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bigmarty58
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Post by bigmarty58 on Sept 24, 2022 8:40:03 GMT -5
This kid is special. He has made the necessary adjustments at the major league level. Next year will be interesting to see how he progresses. Should be in the starting five barring injury.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 24, 2022 11:08:20 GMT -5
Lost in all this discussion is that he'll cease to be a 2023 rookie with 2.2 more IP, which should happen Sunday night on national TV.
(Tyler Danish is 0.2 IP shy; Winck, Crawford and Schreiber went over a while ago, while Seabold, and all the other relievers will still be rookies next year.)
Back to A Game of Clones ...
Who was the last Sox rookie starting pitcher who had exciting success and ...
... whose FB averaged 97 mph or better? Clemens? (Kopech and Montas if we hadn't dealt them.)
... who had no pedigree at all in terms of draft position or FA signing bonus? Anyone? (E-Rod, BTW, signed with the O's for $175K, so it's not him.)
Bryan Mata would be another, BTW.
I don't remember Clemens throwing that hard as a rookie. Almost no one threw that hard in the 1980s. Clemens threw hard but with pinpoint control. Jeff Suppan was an exciting rookie at age 20! The next Jim Palmer. Until he pitched. Came up so young like Mookie or Xander. Eventually became a guy who gave the Royals 200 innings a year.
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Post by manfred on Sept 24, 2022 11:24:48 GMT -5
Lost in all this discussion is that he'll cease to be a 2023 rookie with 2.2 more IP, which should happen Sunday night on national TV.
(Tyler Danish is 0.2 IP shy; Winck, Crawford and Schreiber went over a while ago, while Seabold, and all the other relievers will still be rookies next year.)
Back to A Game of Clones ...
Who was the last Sox rookie starting pitcher who had exciting success and ...
... whose FB averaged 97 mph or better? Clemens? (Kopech and Montas if we hadn't dealt them.)
... who had no pedigree at all in terms of draft position or FA signing bonus? Anyone? (E-Rod, BTW, signed with the O's for $175K, so it's not him.)
Bryan Mata would be another, BTW.
I don't remember Clemens throwing that hard as a rookie. Almost no one threw that hard in the 1980s. Clemens threw hard but with pinpoint control. Jeff Suppan was an exciting rookie at age 20! The next Jim Palmer. Until he pitched. Came up so young like Mookie or Xander. Eventually became a guy who gave the Royals 200 innings a year. Man, you sent me down the Suppan rabbit-hole. He had almost 150 career wins! Not bad. And he made $58 million — also not bad.
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Post by taiwansox on Sept 24, 2022 12:01:19 GMT -5
I don't remember Clemens throwing that hard as a rookie. Almost no one threw that hard in the 1980s. Clemens threw hard but with pinpoint control. Jeff Suppan was an exciting rookie at age 20! The next Jim Palmer. Until he pitched. Came up so young like Mookie or Xander. Eventually became a guy who gave the Royals 200 innings a year. Man, you sent me down the Suppan rabbit-hole. He had almost 150 career wins! Not bad. And he made $58 million — also not bad. Ortiz throwing him out at 3rd base in the 2004 World Series was the moment I knew the curse was truly over lol
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