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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 4, 2021 16:34:27 GMT -5
At the moment it seems like nobody even wants to play for the C's!!! I guess we get to see if someone out of PP, RL, RW or AN uses the opportunity to establish themselves as a legit NBA player. Maybe the C's get a lottery pick this year. Maybe they don't break 500. Been a great few years for us fans watching every single move end up in failure. The hapless Knicks will be kicking our ass, the Bulls also. My guess is the C's will be in the lottery. I’m sorry for your loss
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 4, 2021 17:19:29 GMT -5
Tyreke Evans two year suspension is up. Huge fan, but it's been far too long since he was good. I would like more of a sure thing considering our depth and scoring options.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,852
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Post by cdj on Aug 4, 2021 18:00:13 GMT -5
At the moment it seems like nobody even wants to play for the C's!!! I guess we get to see if someone out of PP, RL, RW or AN uses the opportunity to establish themselves as a legit NBA player. Maybe the C's get a lottery pick this year. Maybe they don't break 500. Been a great few years for us fans watching every single move end up in failure. The hapless Knicks will be kicking our ass, the Bulls also. My guess is the C's will be in the lottery. I’m sorry for your loss Hey now he had to endure one shortened covid season of mediocrity after 3 ECF in 4 seasons. The horror. Kyrie was a jackwagon and Kemba blew his knee out. Stuff happens. You reset and try to rebuild a contender next year with all of the cap space they have. It’s not a matter of “nobody wanting to play for them” with this current free agent crop. Nobody wants a 1 year deal at this point in free agency. You get the scraps when that’s all you can (and honestly at this point should) come with
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 4, 2021 18:20:56 GMT -5
Hey now he had to endure one shortened covid season of mediocrity after 3 ECF in 4 seasons. The horror. Kyrie was a jackwagon and Kemba blew his knee out. Stuff happens. You reset and try to rebuild a contender next year with all of the cap space they have. It’s not a matter of “nobody wanting to play for them” with this current free agent crop. Nobody wants a 1 year deal at this point in free agency. You get the scraps when that’s all you can (and honestly at this point should) come with Oh no, he was so gloomy, I just figured his dog died or something.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 4, 2021 22:12:01 GMT -5
At the moment it seems like nobody even wants to play for the C's!!! I guess we get to see if someone out of PP, RL, RW or AN uses the opportunity to establish themselves as a legit NBA player. Maybe the C's get a lottery pick this year. Maybe they don't break 500. Been a great few years for us fans watching every single move end up in failure. The hapless Knicks will be kicking our ass, the Bulls also. My guess is the C's will be in the lottery. I’m sorry for your loss LOL I am sure I will survive!! As a Boston fan I have survived worse.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,852
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Post by cdj on Aug 4, 2021 22:59:05 GMT -5
If we can somehow get him cheap I want Svi
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,405
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Post by ianrs on Aug 5, 2021 3:50:30 GMT -5
I think the C's are going to be way better than people expect this year because they will have no expectations.
New coach, and improving around the fringes:
PG: Smart (minus COVID), Dunn/Signing?/Romeo, Yam SG: Pritchard, Carsen (blergh) Guard Wings: Jaylen, Romeo (i think he's going to BALL this year), Nesmith, Richardson Big Wings: Tatum, Grant Williams, Hauser (think he'll make roster as a sniper) Bigs: Horford + Timelord with another year + Enes
Gone: Bruno Fernando, Dunn?, TT, Tacko, Tremont, Kornet (basically all the non-NBA players except for Carsen)
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 5, 2021 6:06:25 GMT -5
Just spitballing - the Celtics wouldn’t necessarily have to sign Beal outright next year. They could use Al’s expiring deal to sign and trade for him. Downside they’d be hard capped but that is likely north of 150m. They’d need to send some assets to Washington but probably nothing exorbitant. Beal has been extremely loyal to them so they will likely work with him to get where he wants without hurting their franchise. It could be a 3 team deal, where a team like OKC takes Als deal (then cuts him) for a first rd pick. Washington gets a huge trade exception and maybe a second and a guy like Langford or Grant Williams for him.
The Celtics would still have room to resign Rob, carry Nesmith/Langford and Pritchard and maybe get something for Smart in a sign and trade.
Point being this seems like the Path to Beal or another big free agent.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 5, 2021 7:14:56 GMT -5
Green staying in Philly, per Woj.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 5, 2021 8:34:41 GMT -5
OK so after a few days of wheeling and dealing lets take a look at how many teams the Celtics are looking up at, some obviously and some just maybe, in the east.
Milwaukee Brooklyn Atlanta Miami Philly NY Washington Chicago
Only time will tell but it is quite possible that going into the season the C's will be the 8th ranked team. This is what happens when the outcome of all your big moves is failure. We can add the Hayward trade exception to the list now. Should I add Charlotte to the list? Welcome back Enis. Might as well trade Smart for another youngster as the C's window looks a bit further down the road.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 5, 2021 9:02:53 GMT -5
Washington, huh? K
Some comments on those teams:
Milwaukee - No big subtractions and they still have Giannis. So yes. Brooklyn - Mostly running it back. Age/injuries could catch up but certainly at/near the top. Atlanta - Way ahead of schedule. Teams like this CAN take a step back as they learn to BE a favorite. Still, I agree. Miami - Lowry vs Dragic is likely an upgrade. Be interesting to see what loss of Iguodala does. But I'm with you. Philly - Now the questions start. This is a TBD until we see what happens with Simmons. If he's on the team, that could be a disaster. If he's traded for youth/picks (that would be a bad decision, imo), then are they better? NY - Another "how are you as frontrunners" team. Is Kemba healthy? Randle too comfy with a new contract? Washington - Added some talent but took away a superstar who helped carry them in stretches. Not sure the additions are the type to gel into being better than a Westbrook co-led team Chicago - Added some significant talent. No doubt. How will they fit, though?
Sure, there are plausible versions of these teams that make them all better. But enough so to tear it down? You seem to be willing to make some assumptions on a few of them while assuming NO improvement (individually or as a team) from Boston.
Trading Smart is not off the table but the reasons to do it are not the teams above. His contract and the (potential)path to another star are.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 5, 2021 9:29:23 GMT -5
I did say maybe.... and they have just made a lot of moves that could make them much better. With nothing to really base it on I think the moves make them a lot better, we shall see.
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Post by jmei on Aug 5, 2021 9:31:11 GMT -5
I see the rough tiers as:
Brooklyn Milwaukee
Philadelphia Miami Boston Atlanta New York
Chicago Washington Charlotte Indiana
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 5, 2021 9:47:30 GMT -5
Washington, huh? K Some comments on those teams: Milwaukee - No big subtractions and they still have Giannis. So yes. Brooklyn - Mostly running it back. Age/injuries could catch up but certainly at/near the top. Atlanta - Way ahead of schedule. Teams like this CAN take a step back as they learn to BE a favorite. Still, I agree. Miami - Lowry vs Dragic is likely an upgrade. Be interesting to see what loss of Iguodala does. But I'm with you. Philly - Now the questions start. This is a TBD until we see what happens with Simmons. If he's on the team, that could be a disaster. If he's traded for youth/picks (that would be a bad decision, imo), then are they better? NY - Another "how are you as frontrunners" team. Is Kemba healthy? Randle too comfy with a new contract? Washington - Added some talent but took away a superstar who helped carry them in stretches. Not sure the additions are the type to gel into being better than a Westbrook co-led team Chicago - Added some significant talent. No doubt. How will they fit, though? Sure, there are plausible versions of these teams that make them all better. But enough so to tear it down? You seem to be willing to make some assumptions on a few of them while assuming NO improvement (individually or as a team) from Boston. Trading Smart is not off the table but the reasons to do it are not the teams above. His contract and the (potential)path to another star are. I do not look at the C's and see an improved lineup, they will have a better record but that is based on them having everything go against them this past season. And they will need some serious improvement from the young guys to really compete. I have always under valued Lowry but not anymore, he is perfect along side Butler. Maybe at 35 he starts to regress but he is a dog. And Atlanta could go backwards or they could take that success and build on it. They played at a 60 win pace after McMillan took over at the beginning of March. The thing about all those maybe teams is that over the past what 4,5 years they weren't even considered on par or close, now they are. That is what I was getting at with the maybes. The C's have been a clear top 2 or 3 for a while, now not so much. I love the J's but they will need to make big jumps to their games to make it to the ECFs with the current roster. And the thing about trading Smart is that I wouldn't be afraid of going younger now as opposed to last year base on my perceived window. Thing is Brad has to KNOW that Brown and Tatum are going to reup at the max, sit them down and say hey everything I am going to do is for you guys so don't screw me when the time comes.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 5, 2021 9:54:59 GMT -5
I see the rough tiers as: Brooklyn Milwaukee Philadelphia Miami Boston Atlanta New York Chicago Washington Charlotte Indiana I would agree for the most part but take a look at Atlanta and what they did from the time McMillan was named coach. Trey Young has surprised the shizzle out of me, he is a true star.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 5, 2021 10:19:38 GMT -5
Was thinking about this recently and then saw @dangercart post a similar sentiment so maybe it's not THAT crazy.
But what if the plan is NOT to clear all the cap space for next year but to create the threat of it. Wiping out the books means you might get the 3rd star but then have little depth behind. But if you demonstrate that you COULD do it, it could dissuade other teams from making trade offers for the intended target (yes, I'm thinking Beal here) IF that person makes a demand and wants to come here.
As stated before, it might be hard to Boston to match an offer that doesn't include Brown. But if you discourage other teams from making their best offers, then you have a much better shot of topping them.
@dangercart follows up that tearing it down for Beal could then be plan B with making a max offer for Lavine being Plan C.
Just a thought.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 5, 2021 11:10:26 GMT -5
Maybe I am being naive and lack negotiating skills but it doesn't seem to me that a good GM would be dissuaded from discussing trade options. I thought these guys did that kind of stuff all the time with few coming to fruition but giving guys parameters for future deals. No clue.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 5, 2021 11:19:34 GMT -5
Maybe I am being naive and lack negotiating skills but it doesn't seem to me that a good GM would be dissuaded from discussing trade options. I thought these guys did that kind of stuff all the time with few coming to fruition but giving guys parameters for future deals. No clue. Not sure I follow. Are we assuming Brad is NOT? EDIT - Looked back at my post and realized you may be responding as it relates to the other GMs. If so, I'm not suggesting they wouldn't be talking and even offering. I'm suggesting that they might not put the best offer on the table if they fear it's a rental. You are probably willing to give up one package for 1 year of Player X and another 1 if you feel like you can re-sign him. TBC, this involves a LOT of things going Boston's way. Starting with Player X asking for a trade AND saying he would only re-sign with Boston. TBH, that doesn't sound like Beal (if that's the target) based on his history but, hopefully, Boston might get a little insight on that.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,753
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Post by mobaz on Aug 5, 2021 13:54:47 GMT -5
I feel bad for making so much fun on Philly. We're no better off, and depending on Simmons' value they might have a clearer path to ECF and beyond.
I'm just so frustrated because I've liked this team the last 5 years, liked Danny trying to improve it and raise the ceiling, and hate that every move was more cursed than the prior. Either Romeo/Prichard/Nasmith greatly exceed their likely outcomes, or we'll be in limbo for 2 years with two budding stars who start looking at the door longingly. I can't even get that excited about wishing for another JB level-up because he'd end up redundant with Tatum in a lot of ways (and it's unreasonable to hope for since he's already really good).
My faith is at a low point. Doesn't help to see the other 3 squads in town at similar "good but probably not good enough" inflection points.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 5, 2021 14:08:53 GMT -5
Did we trade Tatum AND Brown and I missed it?
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Post by karl1 on Aug 6, 2021 6:42:54 GMT -5
I feel bad for making so much fun on Philly. We're no better off, and depending on Simmons' value they might have a clearer path to ECF and beyond. I'm just so frustrated because I've liked this team the last 5 years, liked Danny trying to improve it and raise the ceiling, and hate that every move was more cursed than the prior. Either Romeo/Prichard/Nasmith greatly exceed their likely outcomes, or we'll be in limbo for 2 years with two budding stars who start looking at the door longingly. I can't even get that excited about wishing for another JB level-up because he'd end up redundant with Tatum in a lot of ways (and it's unreasonable to hope for since he's already really good). My faith is at a low point. Doesn't help to see the other 3 squads in town at similar "good but probably not good enough" inflection points. I feel similar. It is just like waiting for years now to get the one (or two) players which significantly improve this team to make a run to the finals but they always missed it (or other teams did better). Danny did some great work and of course it is not easy to form a champion but you always that the feeling that it will happen next year and it did not..
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 6, 2021 6:54:53 GMT -5
It's not just about talent, it's about how it fits. That was our issue last year, it was our issue with Irving.
I would have gone after Lonzo Ball, I've been a huge fan for years. I think he’s just getting started. I would have loved Tatum, Brown, Robert Williams and Ball. That is the type of team I want to build. We've only really hit on one free agent in recent memory.
Yet it gives you options, which isn't a bad thing. It's been a sneaky good off-season, getting Richardson might be the most underrated move any team has made. Adding Horford and Kanter give you bigs that can score. Richardson, Dunn and Horford are all very good defensive players that will help you play team ball.
Yet you can't be done, a Winslow and Jackson would be nice finishing pieces. Yet I'd be rather surprised if you could get Jackson. It's why I brought up Evans, yeah he's risky having been out of the NBA for two years, yet he's a perfect fit. You really need veteran bench scoring. You need to dump Bruno.
Right now it's not that this team can't be really good, you are just counting on Nesmith, Langford, Pritchard and Edwards having to step up. That's not an ideal scenario, yet the fit is much better than last year. I can see a defensive team that can play team ball, it just seems incomplete.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 6, 2021 7:25:00 GMT -5
Still curious with what happens on the TT/Dunn deal. It would seem like they might be trying to get a 3rd team involved and the early speculation was that it was to move Dunn along.
I liked him for this team and I know others (UMass for sure) had pointed him out as a target before things got rolling.
Most deals are known by now but they can become official anytime after 12PM EST. Since the ordering of moves can be critical in maximizing cap space, we may start to know more this afternoon.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 6, 2021 7:34:14 GMT -5
I feel bad for making so much fun on Philly. We're no better off, and depending on Simmons' value they might have a clearer path to ECF and beyond. I'm just so frustrated because I've liked this team the last 5 years, liked Danny trying to improve it and raise the ceiling, and hate that every move was more cursed than the prior. Either Romeo/Prichard/Nasmith greatly exceed their likely outcomes, or we'll be in limbo for 2 years with two budding stars who start looking at the door longingly. I can't even get that excited about wishing for another JB level-up because he'd end up redundant with Tatum in a lot of ways (and it's unreasonable to hope for since he's already really good). My faith is at a low point. Doesn't help to see the other 3 squads in town at similar "good but probably not good enough" inflection points. I feel similar. It is just like waiting for years now to get the one (or two) players which significantly improve this team to make a run to the finals but they always missed it (or other teams did better). Danny did some great work and of course it is not easy to form a champion but you always that the feeling that it will happen next year and it did not.. This is basically what I was getting at. The C's are now in a position where they have to do some drastic stuff just to take another shot at a making a big move to improve the team to true contender status. And after the last 4+ years of being right there and making big moves to accomplish that it is disheartening to be where they are now. Which is them needing to make drastic moves to even take that shot at it again. In my opinion it is now 4 squandered shots at it, Kyrie, GH, Kemba and now the big trade exception. And I get it as I loved all those moves at their inception, bad chemistry, injuries for whatever reasons those moves didn't work out so I am disappointed. Whatever it is what it is and I am still a fan but as a fan I am also disappointed as I am sure most fans are. I just now see the window opening up to be contenders being a little further down the road when the J's are truly in their prime. Hopefully they can both reach their potential and stay in Boston for most if not all of their careers, that is hard in todays NBA with the players dictating who goes where. Will Boston be a team players want to go to? That is a good question based on the weather, the media and the stupid old national perception of racism or the perceived abuse of IT. Maybe they should bring him back, I would like that move and it could possibly quell that notion, what do they have to lose. A roster spot.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 6, 2021 7:56:13 GMT -5
If we can somehow get him cheap I want Svi Thunder pulled his qualifying offer. I can get on board with that, he'd certainly add scoring and he might be about ready to breakout. I have to hand it to you, that might be a sneaky good signing.
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