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Celtics 2021 Offseason
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2021 12:49:30 GMT -5
It was Turner, McDermott and a first round pick. It's also the domino effect of no Thompson and you can sign a free agent that fits better. Danny really messed that up. I don’t understand why we’re still talking about this. If Indiana was in Charlotte’s ballpark, why wouldn’t Hayward have signed with his home team? Not to mention Hayward had already signed with Jordan/Charlotte a couple years prior and was clearly quite fond of the situation I’ll never understand the crying about an unrestricted free agent not getting traded to a place where he didn’t sign. Also Myles Turner is still Joel Embiid’s bitch, so no thx even if it was a thing. It’s gotten to the point where Embiid openly talks about it
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2021 16:42:42 GMT -5
It was Turner, McDermott and a first round pick. It's also the domino effect of no Thompson and you can sign a free agent that fits better. Danny really messed that up. I don’t understand why we’re still talking about this. If Indiana was in Charlotte’s ballpark, why wouldn’t Hayward have signed with his home team? They didn't have cap space, hence the sign and trade.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 17, 2021 18:25:21 GMT -5
Side note: strikes me as odd that neither of the Finals teams is playing on Christmas. I get why (neither team is in a premiere market or is a favorite next year), and a lot of players prefer not to play on Christmas, but still odd. Sometimes I feel the NBA is actively trying to work against any parity in the league. It's all about big markets and stars bundling together. The Suns and the Bucks go against that trend so HEY LOOK HERE'S BROOKLYN!
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Post by artfuldodger on Aug 17, 2021 19:08:12 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Aug 17, 2021 19:26:21 GMT -5
Whoops, an earlier version of that story omitted Celtics/Bucks and Suns/Warriors.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Aug 17, 2021 21:15:16 GMT -5
How is Fran still getting these roles as an announcer? He’s so bad.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 18, 2021 6:08:29 GMT -5
I was looking forward to seeing the C's play a good game last night, that didn't happen. Silver lining would be that those guys won't be over confident and realize they have to keep working hard.
That Mitchell guy for the Kings can play some serious D, he was in PP's kitchen all night.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2021 6:16:25 GMT -5
Mitchell really did make life hard for Pritchard. They also missed a ton of open shots.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2021 6:19:21 GMT -5
Tuned in for like 5 min when the Sox were frustrating me and Mitchell’s D was my takeaway too
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2021 7:06:33 GMT -5
First time I've seen Pritchard doubled repeatedly. The whole team played great D, something you just don't see in summer league. I'm kinda pissed that Langford didn't play, I'm sure he would have helped. From the crap play and turnover city to Fran announcing, it wasn't very fun to watch.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2021 7:46:12 GMT -5
and Josh Richardson, who now is buried on the depth chart. Bro Richardson is either a starter or the first guy off the bench, what are you talking about? If you think Schroder starts along with Smart, which I do. I'm not so sure about that, as Pritchard with his great shooting could be that guy. Given how Smart, Schroder and Richardson can be so so shooters at times. Nevermind who starts at center, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first player off the bench be Horford or Williams. So for me he went from sure fire starter getting 30 minutes to much less. Heck at one point with the Dunn rumors I was thinking he might even play some PG. That's unlikely to happen now. So yeah compared to a week ago I see him buried on the depth chart, likely first time since his rookie year he doesn't get 30 minutes a night. I haven't even mentioned if Nesmith or Langford breakout either. I was certainly debating if you start Schroder and Richardson, letting Smart bomb away with the second unit. I can certainly see the value in that, yet that's not happening after you give Smart a huge long-term deal.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 8:56:06 GMT -5
Hope Schroder is on the 2nd unit.
- His best season was as 6th man on OKC - Ime has said he wants to put the ball in Marcus' hand more. Not sure how Schroder would be off the ball (maybe the data suggests he can be good with that) where he'd have to be given Tatum will be creating a lot and maybe Brown and/or Horford (if he starts) - Need a primary/secondary creator on the bench unit. Obviously, we would like PP to be one of those guys but is he there yet?
I can actually see an argument for Pritchard (playing off the ball like he did last year) in the starting lineup. Don't have to rely on him being primary ball handler yet. PP can guard the weakest offensive player among the opposition's BH/Wings). Schroder primary BH on the 2nd unit, Horford (if not starting) and JRich secondary/tertiary.
While we'd like to see Nesmith/Langford as the primary wings on the 2nd unit (or more), I'm not sure their NBA resume warrants handing them the roles. Let 'em earn it (and then, as UMass has suggested, trade JRich to skirt the Tax if they do).
I think that's what is great about the moves this offseason. There is room for the youth to take over roles but, except for Grant Williams (though, maybe, Udoka will ignore Parker's limitations on D) you have experienced NBA vets filling up the rotation.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 18, 2021 9:29:18 GMT -5
Hope Schroder is on the 2nd unit. - His best season was as 6th man on OKC - Ime has said he wants to put the ball in Marcus' hand more. Not sure how Schroder would be off the ball (maybe the data suggests he can be good with that) where he'd have to be given Tatum will be creating a lot and maybe Brown and/or Horford (if he starts) - Need a primary/secondary creator on the bench unit. Obviously, we would like PP to be one of those guys but is he there yet? I can actually see an argument for Pritchard (playing off the ball like he did last year) in the starting lineup. Don't have to rely on him being primary ball handler yet. PP can guard the weakest offensive player among the opposition's BH/Wings). Schroder primary BH on the 2nd unit, Horford (if not starting) and JRich secondary/tertiary. While we'd like to see Nesmith/Langford as the primary wings on the 2nd unit (or more), I'm not sure their NBA resume warrants handing them the roles. Let 'em earn it (and then, as UMass has suggested, trade JRich to skirt the Tax if they do). I think that's what is great about the moves this offseason. There is room for the youth to take over roles but, except for Grant Williams (though, maybe, Udoka will ignore Parker's limitations on D) you have experienced NBA vets filling up the rotation. I agree with all of this!! PP off the ball with his range will spread the floor and Schroder was a 6th man candidate the year you are talking about. With the veteran depth and the development of Nesmith and Langford the 2nd unit should be much improved. Hopefully with Brad upstairs Ime does a better job with a consistent rotation, that would help and health is obviously part of that. The biggest improvement I expect to see is on D, their are a lot pf guys who have shown they can be tough and with Horford back I expect that will be the biggest focus. And with the depth it will be easier to maintain the intensity from the starters thru the 2nd team. The next thing will be ball movement. The D will carry them but ball movement will decide just how good they will be. Of course this is based on if their are more trades coming and what the roster looks like, kind of hoping they go with what they have.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 9:49:34 GMT -5
Unrelated to the C's (or ANY current NBA Team), I watched Malice at the Palace the other night. Couple of things:
- I had forgotten how good that Pacer starting lineup was poised to be - Had no idea the animosity between Artest and O'Neal (starting almost immediately after the brawl) - Had never heard Artest's post championship interview (from Laker championship) where his first response was guilt over bailing on the Pacers. - The lack of remorse and understanding from the 2 key fan participants stood out
Very interesting doc, imo.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2021 11:11:21 GMT -5
This is all in theory given we haven't seen this team play together and it's hard to project how quickly things like chemistry can form.
I say Schroder starts because he's a true PG and his style fits. He's a quick athletic PG that can attack the basket unlike any other PG we have. That's key, just go back and look how different this team was when Kemba could attack versus when he couldn't and was just shooting jumpers. Schroder was a bench piece for two years for the Thunder, 2020 for me is Chris Paul, not because he was a bench piece. Also those two years Schroder played PG 100%, they moved Paul and SGA to SG. Which makes sense, they are better shooters. The only time Schroder wasn't a PG full-time was with the Lakers last year and look at how people's view of him changed. The good news is that Schroder has proven he can play with other PGs, he's no Irving.
I make Pritchard the backup PG because he's just a much more creative dribbler than Smart. It looked ugly last night because he was getting doubled all game long. Yet that's the Pritchard from the start of last year. He attacks the defense with his dribbling and put up big assist numbers. Plus if you want to be a good defensive team, Pritchard is a PG.
I've talked numerous times about Smarts battle with being a SG versus PG. Schroder doesn't have those issues, he's not going to just start bombing away and not be a PG. With Tatum and Brown that's crazy important. So make him the SG, were he'll be a combo guard and secondary playmaker. Gives you Schroder driving to collapse the D, combined with Smarts craftiness playmaking. I also like the defensive pairing of Smart/Schroder and Richardson/Pritchard and frankly the offensive pairing. It's splitting up the guys that like to take the most three's, which I feel is crazy important.
It really comes down to what type of team you want, I want a defensive team that plays team ball. Again in theory I start Tatum, Brown, Robert Williams, Smart and Schroder. Second unit of Horford, Tatum/Brown, Richardson, Pritchard and Nesmith/Langford. Maybe that changes, yet Stevens always kept Tatum or Brown in. Obviously based on matchup you'll see Grant and Parker along with other guys. You just have very good depth at center, SG and PG. PF is your weak spot, followed by SF depending how the young guys do. That's a second unit that could be darn good and you don't have to count of Nesmith or Langford, unlike last year. You can bypass the depth issues by just going small. Play Brown at PF some, he can easily handle guys like Siakam and Durant. You could play Smart and Richardson at SF for stretches.
The only thing you really lack is a good small ball center, who could also play PF if you wanted to go big. I hate the idea of Horford playing big minutes at PF. Those days should be long gone. It's why I'd focus on trying to trade Dunn to get a PF or a SF that can play PF. As Texas brought up I'm certainly eyeing the Grizz as Kyle Anderson or Brandon Clarke would be perfect. Yet it's a horrible fit even after they traded Beverly and I don't see why they'd do it.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 11:18:28 GMT -5
This is all in theory given we haven't seen this team play together and it's hard to project how quickly things like chemistry can form. I say Schroder starts because he's a true PG and his style fits. He's a quick athletic PG that can attack the basket unlike any other PG we have. That's key, just go back and look how different this team was when Kemba could attack versus when he couldn't and was just shooting jumpers. Schroder was a bench piece for two years for the Thunder, 2020 for me is Chris Paul, not because he was a bench piece. Also those two years Schroder played PG 100%, they moved Paul and SGA to SG. Which makes sense, they are better shooters. The only time Schroder wasn't a PG full-time was with the Lakers last year and look at how people's view of him changed. The good news is that Schroder has proven he can play with other PGs, he's no Irving. I make Pritchard the backup PG because he's just a much more creative dribbler than Smart. It looked ugly last night because he was getting doubled all game long. Yet that's the Pritchard from the start of last year. He attacks the defense with his dribbling and put up big assist numbers. Plus if you want to be a good defensive team, Pritchard is a PG. I've talked numerous times about Smarts battle with being a SG versus PG. Schroder doesn't have those issues, he's not going to just start bombing away and not be a PG. With Tatum and Brown that's crazy important. So make him the SG, were he'll be a combo guard and secondary playmaker. Gives you Schroder driving to collapse the D, combined with Smarts craftiness playmaking. I also like the defensive pairing of Smart/Schroder and Richardson/Pritchard and frankly the offensive pairing. It's splitting up the guys that like to take the most three's, which I feel is crazy important. It really comes down to what type of team you want, I want a defensive team that plays team ball. Again in theory I start Tatum, Brown, Robert Williams, Smart and Schroder. Second unit of Horford, Tatum/Brown, Richardson, Pritchard and Nesmith/Langford. Maybe that changes, yet Stevens always kept Tatum or Brown in. Obviously based on matchup you'll see Grant and Parker along with other guys. You just have very good depth at center, SG and PG. PF is your weak spot, followed by SF depending how the young guys do. That's a second unit that could be darn good and you don't have to count of Nesmith or Langford, unlike last year. You can bypass the depth issues by just going small. Play Brown at PF some, he can easily handle guys like Siakam and Durant. You could play Smart and Richardson at SF for stretches. The only thing you really lack is a good small ball center, who could also play PF if you wanted to go big. I hate the idea of Horford playing big minutes at PF. Those days should be long gone. It's why I'd focus on trying to trade Dunn to get a PF or a SF that can play PF. As Texas brought up I'm certainly eyeing the Grizz as Kyle Anderson or Brandon Clarke would be perfect. Yet it's a horrible fit even after they traded Beverly and I don't see why they'd do it. Agree on small ball C. I know some envision Grant W being that guy but, as with Nesmith/Langford, I'd prefer someone who CAN do it not someone who might someday do it. If Grant beats that person out (so maybe it's a more "disposable player" than Anderson - I will now scour rosters for the Kris Dunn of 4/Small Ball 5s) you trade him.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2021 12:45:47 GMT -5
It's the modern positionless NBA. I'm less concerned about how well our guards fit into predetermined boxes and more concerned about skills and fit. If they improve their ball movement, Schroder fits well with the starting unit since he can run the pick and roll, draw help and kick out to Tatum/Brown or play off the ball and attack closeouts. I could see that going downhill, though, if Schroder starts thinking too much about his next contract and they slide back into alternating iso ball. In that case, you might bring him off the bench to add a little more shot creation to reserve units.
A guard rotation of Schroder/Smart/Richardson/Pritchard is legit, though. If they play the right way and stay healthy, I think they can surprise some folks and be a top 3 seed in the east.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2021 12:47:01 GMT -5
A few scattered thoughts:
Kris Dunn seems to have no trade value - i think we should prepare ourselves for that. He’s barely played in 2 years and didn’t look good when he did get back on the court last season.
Schröder is in all likelihood a one and done Celtic. They have less chance to resign him than they did to have him fall into their laps. If he plays well, it’d be interesting to see how much they could get for him via trade at the deadline. Obviously, we hope the Celtics are playing well and we are eyeing a deep playoff push, BUT if they aren’t at the top of the conference with Brooklyn and whoever else then it really should be explored IF a team is willing to overpay.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 13:02:21 GMT -5
If things go their way (Nesmith and Langford becoming consistent rotation pieces and Pritchard handing primary ball handler duties on the 2nd unit - both while being a legitimate playoff team), you could end up looking to trade 2 of their biggest offseason acquisitions in JRich and Schroder at the deadline. That'd be weird but I'd take it if the other things are true.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2021 13:06:59 GMT -5
Eh, playoff teams don't voluntarily downgrade at the deadline. There's really no such thing as too many good players. If they are winning and trading Richardson and Schroder at the deadline, it's to make the team better.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 13:24:58 GMT -5
Trying to find that small ball 5 that is likely available for what we'd have to offer is haaaard.
Not sure there is anyone they could acquire that would be better than a combination of Grant and Jabari (actually surprised Grant wasn't logged as having more minutes at the 5 but, admittedly, I didn't watch a ton last year).
Otherwise, you're looking at guys like Kevon Looney (not sure why GS would trade him for what we have to offer), Anderson (even more so), maybe Eric Paschall (is he better than what we have)?
Might just have to roll with what we have.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2021 14:30:19 GMT -5
Madar rejected a 2-way deal and signed with Partizan Belgrade (3 yrs) in Serbia. Celtic's Blog citing team website.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2021 15:37:06 GMT -5
Madar rejected a 2-way deal and signed with Partizan Belgrade (3 yrs) in Serbia. Celtic's Blog citing team website. Good, he’s not ready
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 18, 2021 20:44:37 GMT -5
I went back and read some previous posts and want to make clear I meant PP with his range would be good for the 2nd unit. He can't bring the D like Josh and Schroder so you can hide that better on the 2nd.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 18, 2021 21:35:14 GMT -5
If you think Schroder starts along with Smart, which I do. I'm not so sure about that, as Pritchard with his great shooting could be that guy. Given how Smart, Schroder and Richardson can be so so shooters at times. Nevermind who starts at center, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first player off the bench be Horford or Williams. So for me he went from sure fire starter getting 30 minutes to much less. Heck at one point with the Dunn rumors I was thinking he might even play some PG. That's unlikely to happen now. So yeah compared to a week ago I see him buried on the depth chart, likely first time since his rookie year he doesn't get 30 minutes a night. I haven't even mentioned if Nesmith or Langford breakout either. I was certainly debating if you start Schroder and Richardson, letting Smart bomb away with the second unit. I can certainly see the value in that, yet that's not happening after you give Smart a huge long-term deal. Josh Richardson is a wing. He's NOT a ball handler, he's not going against Schröder for PT, he's going against Nesmith and Langford.
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