Celtics 2021 Offseason

When you have to include that many mostly arbitrary qualifiers to make it even a close comparison, it probably means it was a bad comparison.

Explain why that matters? Unless we're talking max salary I just don't get your point. Fun fact of the day, Robert Williams had a higher win share last year, it actually matched Smarts career best.

It has been pointed out that Marcus has had injuries that are different in nature to what Williams deals with in regards to his body and his injuries. One has stuff that can be attributed to normal stuff that happens. The other has had to be treated specially and gingerly just so his body can handle the vigors of playing pro basketball. Their is a very big and obvious difference between the 2. Do you really think that when negotiating these contracts that injuries were a big part of the conversations and considerations in both. I think not.
AND given that his elite athleticism is the biggest part of his game it is even that much more of a LT issue. Not sure why you are arguing against what is so obvious that it has been the topic of all conversations and analysis basically everywhere.

www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-22-nba-schedule-release-lebron-james-vs-stephen-curry-on-opening-night-lakers-vs-nets-on-christmas/

www.foxsports.com/nba/robert-williams-player-injuries

You are right and every one else is wrong, that is why he got a max deal and Marcus didn't.

What are his chronic injuries that make you worry about his athletic ability?

It all depends what a player wants, security or chasing the most money. They both took the security,  which I would have done. If Robert Williams wanted more leverage than he simple doesn't take an extension and goes into restricted free agency. 

That still doesn't change the point of view of games versus money and if they player making more misses more games and has a lower win share. Yet not a single person mentioned injuries when Smart signed. I was looking at this based on money versus win share versus games, so I don't see why leverage has anything to do with that.

Robert Williams isn't bad value if he does the same exact thing he did last year,  Marcus Smart is. Jarrett Allen is a very good recent comp for Robert Williams,  who's Smarts comp that makes that deal look good?

I’m more concerned about Brown too especially considering he’s 1000 times more important.

So you think minutes reflect health? It wasn't Robert Williams was a crazy raw player? He didn't start his first game till 60% of the way through last year, his third NBA season. Even after he came back from the hip injury and was completely healthy for the final 29 games including the playoffs he had eight DNP coaches decision. While averaging 12.1 minutes per game when he did play. I don't even know if Robert Williams is ready for 30 minutes a night starting next year and that's not a health issue for me. It's Robert Williams needs to improve his post defense and learn how to play 30 minutes a night in the NBA. Adjust from playing 100% all out to learning how to pick his spots, which every player has to do going from a bench role to starting. He's likely a year away from that. He's a big, they always take longer to develop. Does anyone think Robert Williams has reached his ceiling? Luckily Stevens bringing in Horford and Kanter will really help him take that final step.

Why wouldn't box score data reflect Marcus Smarts value? Looking how the team does with him and without him is exactly the type of stats that will show his value. It's like with Myles Turner, the Pacers D tanks when he doesn't play. The issue with Smart is his offense and that perimeter defenders will never come close to the defensive value of interior ones. Just like with Baseball, certain positions are more valuable on D. Center in the NBA is like rolling together SS, CF and catcher.

I think certain people haven't watched how Scary Terry has evolved the last two years for the Hornets. I think Roziers contract at 24 million is way better than Smart at 19 million. If you are remembering the player he was on the Celtics that's just dead wrong. I also like the Ball contract way more. I'd take Smart over Fournier though, he doesn't play enough D. Smart is the only one of those four to never post a league average PER, his career high was last year at 13.8. The good news is his trade kicker is only a $1 million dollars, not the standard 15%.

I'm not trying to slam Smart either before people freak out, this is all about his money and where that ranks versus where I see him as a player on a championship team. It's like 2018, I can see him being the 5th best player unless he greatly improves his offense. That's just going to be a crazy expensive team and frankly why so many people are already talking about trading Smart. I can see Rozier and Ball being the third best players.

I don't really want either of them to be my 3rd best player...

The one benefit of Rozier is he can carry an offense for a night or two if JB/JT are throwing bricks or are out. I guess Schroder is that guy on the Celts right now, which doesn't give me the fuzzies.

This is comical, raise your hand if you said Robert Williams should be playing 30 minutes a night his rookie year, his second year or even to start last year? Robert Williams was a crazy raw upside guy and Smart was an NBA ready type guy that got drafted to a rebuilding squad. I don't have Robert Williams playing 30 minutes a night next year.

If we get to a point in a few years where Robert Williams is ready to play 30 minutes a night and can't I'll fully agree. Yet he hasn't even reached that point.

I think a bunch of you need to go look how efficient Terry Rozier has become. 17.1 FG per 36 minutes last year 54.8% effective FG percentage. Only Jayleen Brown took more shots and had a higher effective FG percentage than Rozier last year. He's come so far since his Boston days. He's a darn good 3 point shooter 8.6 per at 38.9%, 7 per at 40.7% the year before. His 10-16 shots that he was just learning to take, are now highly effective and his mid range shots have also greatly improved. He's basically the guy he looked like on his on nights over a full season. Those 2018 playoffs 13.8 shots per 36, 50.2% effective FG percentage and 7.6 three's at 34.7%. How many teams have a better third scorer?

Only time Marcus Smart was above 50% was when he took 9.3 shots per 36 minutes and had an 53.3% effective FG percentage.

Terry Rozier had the second most win shares during that 2018 playoff run and he's now a much better player. 2020 Celtics run, Smart was 5th. I'm utterly confused by some people's takes. Especially in today's NBA, this isn't 30 years ago.

PER isn't a great Stat, yet it shows you that Smart collects well below average counting stats per minutes played. I just find it funny, we have multiple advanced defensive stats that I think are really good. Yet they don't fit Smart, maybe it's they don't fit your idea of Smart. This feels like Baseball where someone is bitching because a GG 1B doesn't have the defensive war total of a GG SS. It's not that the stats are wrong, it's just the difference in position. If the many different box score stats can't show Smarts value, maybe you need to rethink his true value. Those stats are specifically designed to catch the value of the things Smart does, instead of just using counting stats. It should be night and day, just like the Pacers D without Turner.

Great response!!

But let me warn you Umass doesn't giveup or givein, he will debate his opinion regardless of facts til nobody bothers replying. Better to just walk away.