Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 7, 2021 19:33:09 GMT -5
I don't feel like this is important enough to start a new thread and this is the closest I can find but I was looking at some numbers earlier tonight.
in 2019 MLB had 15 players who had over 200 IP. Cole led the league with 212 IP, go back 20 years and 22 pitchers had more than 212 IP and 44 pitched over 200.
Now I know the game has changed, and teams leverage relief roles much more now a days, but I truly miss having a guy at the top of your rotation that is going to go 240 IP and just deal all season long. I still feel that having that one guy you can lean on to go 9 when he's on and/or to give the bullpen a rest is valuable.
Why do people keep talking about ERod’s health issues? Guy had a bum knee and Covid! Hardly ominous signs. There are reasons for letting him go, but the idea that his health is more precarious than Richards’, Eovaldi’s, or Sale’s seems dubious.
Because I'm a Covid survivor, several months later I'm still suffering from it. The myocardia that affect him and many other Covid athletes around the world is showing that they have s serious issue going forward, I'm sure you guys know better then the what is actually happen to the people that are living with the problem.
Why do people keep talking about ERod’s health issues? Guy had a bum knee and Covid! Hardly ominous signs. There are reasons for letting him go, but the idea that his health is more precarious than Richards’, Eovaldi’s, or Sale’s seems dubious.
Because I'm a Covid survivor, several months later I'm still suffering from it. The myocardia that affect him and many other Covid athletes around the world is showing that they have s serious issue going forward, I'm sure you guys know better then the what is actually happen to the people that are living with the problem.
I think you are forgetting the part where he had a heart problem and was told to do nothing more than walk for 3 months last year, wasn't even allowed to play video games didn't they say.
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2021 8:33:08 GMT -5
I think that both Whitlock and Houck will be looked at as starters for next season. And Connor Seabold might find himself looking to crack the rotation at some point.
This is the first time in a long while where I see the Sox have potential starters coming up through the system. Bryan Bello could even be knocking on the door before long. Groome has potential to crack the rotation in a couple of years.
I'd guess Winckowski or Kutter Crawford could also get some starts, although they might be more of a starter/reliever hybrid.
While I'm sure Bloom would like to re-sign E-Rod if the price/terms are right and he might add an arm for the rotation, he'll probably be looking for bullpen help, which should be cheaper, because the plan most likely involves moving Whitlock and Houck full-time into the rotation.
I think that both Whitlock and Houck will be looked at as starters for next season. And Connor Seabold might find himself looking to crack the rotation at some point.
This is the first time in a long while where I see the Sox have potential starters coming up through the system. Bryan Bello could even be knocking on the door before long. Groome has potential to crack the rotation in a couple of years.
I'd guess Winckowski or Kutter Crawford could also get some starts, although they might be more of a starter/reliever hybrid.
While I'm sure Bloom would like to re-sign E-Rod if the price/terms are right and he might add an arm for the rotation, he'll probably be looking for bullpen help, which should be cheaper, because the plan most likely involves moving Whitlock and Houck full-time into the rotation.
It would be very nice if they can have houck and Whitlock as starters and theoretically save the 16ish million from the perez and richards type contracts and spread that out. It's not so simple as that obviously unfortunately since they'd be very thin in the rotation and that's not something to mess with.
What are people’s thoughts on Whitlock for next year? Is he a starter or do they keep him in the Pen?
Great question. His innings would still have to be suppressed, but think they'll try him as a starter to begin next year.
Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Whitlock, Rodriguez/Houck/Richards/Perez/Seabold/TBD, as starters next year.
Could definitely see one of these guys being dealt this deadline, if the value is right.
Wouldn't the best way to limit his innings be to start him out in the role he's in now and then convert him to starter around mid-season?
You'd have Sale, Rodriguez/FA, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Perez to start, with Houck in the bullpen/#6 starter, Seabold the #7 starter, and Whitlock ready to step in mid-season. That's pretty decent depth to begin with (though I wouldn't put it past Bloom to add to it).
Great question. His innings would still have to be suppressed, but think they'll try him as a starter to begin next year.
Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Whitlock, Rodriguez/Houck/Richards/Perez/Seabold/TBD, as starters next year.
Could definitely see one of these guys being dealt this deadline, if the value is right.
Wouldn't the best way to limit his innings be to start him out in the role he's in now and then convert him to starter around mid-season?
You'd have Sale, Rodriguez/FA, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Perez to start, with Houck in the bullpen/#6 starter, Seabold the #7 starter, and Whitlock ready to step in mid-season. That's pretty decent depth to begin with (though I wouldn't put it past Bloom to add to it).
Fair point. Sale will also be limited in innings next year. The starting pitching depth is coming around nicely.
"Average -> Slightly above average -> Above average -> Good -> Excellent -> Elite -> Pedro Martinez" -Yirm
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 23, 2021 14:11:39 GMT -5
I don't think Whitlock's going to have to be on an innings limit, or at least anything terribly restrictive.
He's at 47 and projects to pitch another 23-33 on FG. I'm inclined to think it's the higher end, so say he gets to like 80 innings. Pitches 10-15 more in the playoffs one hopes. If he throws 90+ innings this year, I can't see why you wouldn't be comfortable with him throwing 150 or 160 innings next year.
You could easily do that by limiting his workload earlier on in the year, using a sixth starter during long stretches without off-days, etc.
"We really don't need the whole commercial break/warm-up routine every time a new reliever comes into the game. It certainly made sense in 1884 when they only switched pitchers when the starter was attacked by pickaxe or caught consumption, and no reliever was warming up because he was busy gambling and drinking." - JD
I still think I'm going to wake up and say "I shouldn't listen to the podcast before bed, I dreamed the Sox signed a guy from Curaçao named Charlie Zink." - KOC
Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 23, 2021 14:17:41 GMT -5
Just my opinion but I believe the vast majority here are seriously undervaluing Houck.
Also
ERod in 2022 is highly unlikely, the Sox have enough young talent that they don't need three relatively expensive starters.
My guess on the most common 5 are
Sale Eovaldi Houck Whitlock Pivetta
With Seabold as 6th starter after April.
That leaves $$ on the table for position players.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 14:23:28 GMT -5 by philsbosoxfan
Proud survivor of a hole in the ozone layer, an ice age, a complete polar cap meltdown, a worldwide millennium computer shutdown, and multiple; solar storms, Mayan calendar dates, Nostradamus quatrains and Apocalypses.
An idea I posted in the 40 man thread is if Perez and Richards hold value at the end of the year maybe you can pick up their options, eat possibly a little salary and trade for a lower level non 40 man eligible interesting prospect. If they don’t hold any trade value maybe just decline their options.
I do hope they re-sign Erod to a reasonable contract, and if not sign someone else who could be a upgrade over Perez and Richards.
Then roll into next next season with Sale, Erod, Eovaldi, Pivetta, with Houck and Whitlock possibly piggybacking each other, and mix in some spot starts for them stretching the rotation to 6 starters at times hoping to keep everyone fresh. If there happens to be an injury you still have 5 starters, if 2 injuries pick the best option out of the Seabold, Bello, Groome, Winckowski, and Crawford grouping if they all happen to still be around.
I hope they sign Erod and pick up Perez option if he remains healthy and a viable number 5. Sale/Erod/Eovaldi/Pivetta/Perez and bring Whitlock and Houck along slowly since they're both young and could need to continue to build up the ability to go 150+ IP a year. Perez as a rental to some NL competitor could have some decent value next year at the deadline. Keeps good depth in case of injury since its never a bad thing to have extra guys who can start.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 14:36:18 GMT -5 by ematz1423
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 23, 2021 14:36:38 GMT -5
A team trading for Richards at 8.5M seems a bit optimistic to me. Perez being 3M less makes him a lot more tradeable IMO. That’s a lot for some teams. Let Richards walk. Give ERod the QO (which I think he takes). Then you have:
Sale Eovaldi ERod Pivetta Whitlock
Houck starts in the 2-3 inning role and Seabold is in AAA. That’s pretty good depth and while Perez is a decent #5 starter, there is an opportunity cost tonhis 40 man spot and his money that can be used on others.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 14:51:46 GMT -5 by FenwayFanatic
Going back to the Gausman idea for a minute. I always really liked him, but he sure is a lot better when he's not pitching in the AL East. There's no way I'd pay a premium for him.
“We just lost a World Series game in 18 innings. But after that [meeting], it didn’t feel like we lost. It felt like we won.”
Going back to the Gausman idea for a minute. I always really liked him, but he sure is a lot better when he's not pitching in the AL East. There's no way I'd pay a premium for him.
Agreed I think gausman could be a decent option but if him and erod can be signed for comparable dollars and term I'd take Erod because we've seen him be a solid 2/3 in the AL East. Gausman may have figured it out and be what he's showing this year or maybe he can't hack it in the AL East and Boston and could turn into a pumpkin.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 14:42:02 GMT -5 by ematz1423
A team trading for Richards at 8.5M seems a bit optimistic to me.
Yeah that’s while I mentioned eat some salary, and would only probably work if he continued to pitch like last time out. Since Bloom has been here eating some salary has been a staple in many of the trades he’s done to increase the return.
Going back to the Gausman idea for a minute. I always really liked him, but he sure is a lot better when he's not pitching in the AL East. There's no way I'd pay a premium for him.
Agreed I think gausman could be a decent option but if him and erod can be signed for comparable dollars and term I'd take Erod because we've seen him be a solid 2/3 in the AL East. Gausman may have figured it out and be what he's showing this year or maybe he can't hack it in the AL East and Boston and could turn into a pumpkin.
He would’ve been a great signing coming off a down year last season but he took the QO.
Agreed I think gausman could be a decent option but if him and erod can be signed for comparable dollars and term I'd take Erod because we've seen him be a solid 2/3 in the AL East. Gausman may have figured it out and be what he's showing this year or maybe he can't hack it in the AL East and Boston and could turn into a pumpkin.
He would’ve been a great signing coming off a down year last season but he took the QO.
Yes he did well for himself by taking that QO and betting on himself. The good news for suitors is that he can't receive that QO again so he won't cost a draft pick. I wouldn't be surprised to see Erod do the same.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 14:58:39 GMT -5 by ematz1423
Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 23, 2021 17:53:10 GMT -5
ERod is a quality pitcher getting stronger as the season wears on. If business remains the same with no fan attendance interruptions, he'd be crazy to accept a QO. Gausman was in an entirely different baseball economics situation, you can't compare.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 17:56:00 GMT -5 by philsbosoxfan
Proud survivor of a hole in the ozone layer, an ice age, a complete polar cap meltdown, a worldwide millennium computer shutdown, and multiple; solar storms, Mayan calendar dates, Nostradamus quatrains and Apocalypses.
Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 23, 2021 18:03:34 GMT -5
The Padres have already expressed that they wouldn't let the tax threshold hold them back from any deals. They are going for it. That general sentiment might affect the entire trade market.
Proud survivor of a hole in the ozone layer, an ice age, a complete polar cap meltdown, a worldwide millennium computer shutdown, and multiple; solar storms, Mayan calendar dates, Nostradamus quatrains and Apocalypses.
I may be crazy and we need to see what happens with the CB, but i think next year would be a great year to sign Scherzer to a 2 year deal at big money per(doubt he gets longer than that at his age)…. I’d rather him at that than ERod at 5 or 6 years north of 20 per…
They have money to spend next year and have another 16m coming off the books after 2022 from Price, plus will have Eovaldi’s money coming off the books after 2022.
Hi guys I think Perez and Richards are gunners. Mata is coming back at some point. So I believe rotation will be Sale, Eovaldi, Withlock, Pivetta and Houck. Seabold, Crawford and Mata for remaining spot Unlikely Eduardo is coming back
Hi guys I think Perez and Richards are gunners. Mata is coming back at some point. So I believe rotation will be Sale, Eovaldi, Withlock, Pivetta and Houck. Seabold, Crawford and Mata for remaining spot Unlikely Eduardo is coming back
Mata is not coming back next year and even if he did it would be unlikely him cracking the rotation.
