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Post by Jimmy on Jun 7, 2021 22:22:11 GMT -5
Feel this is needed as we are all at the edge of our seats in anticipation of his return.
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Post by jkfer98 on Jun 7, 2021 22:29:27 GMT -5
If Chris Sale were able to return today, what would people do with the current rotation? Who do you bump? Do you go to a 6-man rotation? I've been thinking about this a lot recently and honestly don't know how I could justify taking any starter out of the rotation as things currently stand.
I know these things usually have a way of sorting themselves out, but it's going to be very interesting to see what happens if everyone stays healthy/effective.
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Post by ponch73 on Jun 7, 2021 23:07:12 GMT -5
Here’s my take:
1. Sale would replace another lefty in the rotation who would go on a phantom DL stint. 2. That lefty’s name is not Martin Perez.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 8, 2021 2:56:28 GMT -5
Folks might remember the "This Sale Valid for a Limited Time Only?" thread where I broke down how his performance has started to decline at mid-season, every year, to the point where he was nothing special at all in September and beyond. That's a second good reason to treat him with kid gloves.
So, as I've mentioned in a few places, I like the idea (which someone else also came up with independently) of having him pitch every sixth game, with each of the five current starters skipping every fifth start. It limits everyone's innings a bit more, in response to the 60-game season. I discussed this further in the 2022 Rotation thread.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 8, 2021 3:39:25 GMT -5
If I remember correctly from a couple years ago, Chris Sale is one of several SP who actually performed significantly better w extra day rest. Performance now and performance thru postseason? Genius!! Downsides? A continuing 3 man bench AND a 7 man Pen. The latter would be ok because 6 rested SP will give you more innings. I guess two of the super versatile Marwin, Kiké, Santana can handle the bench with Arroyo at 2B and a Dugo, Renfroe, Duran OF? Thatâs a very good and balanced team even without deadline moves by Bloom.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 8, 2021 7:39:41 GMT -5
According to an Athletic article a few weeks ago, it hasn't been determined if Sale will start or relieve. He's OK with either. If it's as a starter, the stretch out period will be several weeks after he gets the full steam ahead go signal, relief, a LOT shorter.
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Post by patford on Jun 8, 2021 7:41:17 GMT -5
Folks might remember the "This Sale Valid for a Limited Time Only?" thread where I broke down how his performance has started to decline at mid-season, every year, to the point where he was nothing special at all in September and beyond. That's a second good reason to treat him with kid gloves.
So, as I've mentioned in a few places, I like the idea (which someone else also came up with independently) of having him pitch every sixth game, with each of the five current starters skipping every fifth start. It limits everyone's innings a bit more, in response to the 60-game season. I discussed this further in the 2022 Rotation thread.
My rose colored glasses take is Sale had elbow problems back with the White Sox and had a platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injection at that time. So chances are that like Price (and probably a lot of pitchers in the past) Sale had strains or small tears on his UCL which would heal up in the off season and then begin to break down again as the innings piled up. He seems to be one of those "cowboy mentality" guys who would not make excuses or tell anyone he was pitching through pain and would instead insist he was fine. For that reason I think there is a chance Sale can return better than he's been in a long time. I do think the Sox should be extremely cautious with him, perhaps using him in relief for a good spell. Maybe all year and then let him build up his inning over the Winter and Spring for next year.
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Post by juanpena on Jun 8, 2021 8:19:24 GMT -5
Obviously Chris Sale became CHRIS SALE by throwing 97 with a wipeout slider. When Sale gets to a point in his rehab where he can throw 90 with a pretty good slider, I would consider having him come up to be an opener.
That stuff wouldn't get you twice through the batting order, but he could get six outs with it, and after he's pulled from the game he could throw more in the bullpen to get the rest of his work in, ala spring training.
Specifically, I would have him open for Pivetta, who runs up a high pitch count and can struggle going deep in games. If Sale starts, the opposing manager isn't loading his lineup with lefty hitters know they have to face Sale -- even a rehabbing Sale -- the first time. Sale pitches two, then Pivetta comes i and ideally gets it to Ottavino in the eighth.
As Sale gets stronger, his openings eventually become starts, and then you figure out who to remove from the rotation -- if they're all healthy and pitching, that is.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 8, 2021 8:48:01 GMT -5
I envision Sale ending the baseball season k’ing Manny Machado! #2021
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 8, 2021 8:54:29 GMT -5
I envision Sale ending the baseball season k’ing Manny Machado! #2021 That dude deserves an ugly strikeout to end the World Series every year for eternity
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Post by 1toolplayer on Jun 8, 2021 9:50:15 GMT -5
I think it might make sense to have Sale be a multi inning relief specialist as he builds back up, almost supplanting Whitlock in that role, and letting GW pitch in more of a traditional set-up role (which is already kind of happening), now that he's through the first 2 months. I think it could be a useful way to build innings responsibly for both, and when I think about this, would Sale be ready to be top SP option in the playoffs, or having him pitch as that "rover" they used in '18 a more valuable role for him this year? The latter might be more effective. This would give them a really deep and potent BP down the stretch, and keep the starters in that 5-6 inning window where they've been so effective.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 8, 2021 16:43:20 GMT -5
NSFW
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Post by patford on Jun 8, 2021 17:32:59 GMT -5
I love the sound of this. It's hard to believe Sale would not benefit from putting on a good 20 lbs.
Cora said. "Physically, he looks a lot stronger than two years ago."
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 8, 2021 17:41:18 GMT -5
I hate to assume a guy is just going to recover from TJ and be just as good as before, but TJ has a pretty good success rate. Still, surgery is surgery and always draws concern.
Still, the prospect of Sale coming back stronger than before scares the shit out of me......Now replace me with the opposition.
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 11, 2021 15:25:20 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 11, 2021 15:33:21 GMT -5
The return of Chris Sale could be the kind of storyline that drives a season and tightens a team up. Looking forward to him getting back on a mound.
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Post by patford on Jun 11, 2021 16:14:07 GMT -5
I hate to assume a guy is just going to recover from TJ and be just as good as before, but TJ has a pretty good success rate. Still, surgery is surgery and always draws concern. Still, the prospect of Sale coming back stronger than before scares the shit out of me......Now replace me with the opposition. He may be better as the elbow injury dates to his time with the White Sox and he received Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections in his elbow. Or at least better in the sense of being more durable over a season. I think they need to pump the brakes on him, rein him in so he does not push too hard. Patience and baby steps.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2021 17:28:06 GMT -5
I hate to assume a guy is just going to recover from TJ and be just as good as before, but TJ has a pretty good success rate. Still, surgery is surgery and always draws concern. Still, the prospect of Sale coming back stronger than before scares the shit out of me......Now replace me with the opposition. He may be better as the elbow injury dates to his time with the White Sox and he received Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections in his elbow. Or at least better in the sense of being more durable over a season. I think they need to pump the brakes on him, rein him in so he does not push too hard. Patience and baby steps. Pump the brakes on a bullpen session 15 months after TJ surgery? They have already been crazy patience with baby steps. Just my two cents, yet you seem closer to giving him freedom and see what he can do. I hope to see him on a rehab assignment my the end of the month. If it's bad, then pull him back and slow down things.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 11, 2021 17:51:25 GMT -5
He may be better as the elbow injury dates to his time with the White Sox and he received Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections in his elbow. Or at least better in the sense of being more durable over a season. I think they need to pump the brakes on him, rein him in so he does not push too hard. Patience and baby steps. Pump the brakes on a bullpen session 15 months after TJ surgery? They have already been crazy patience with baby steps. Just my two cents, yet you seem closer to giving him freedom and see what he can do. I hope to see him on a rehab assignment my the end of the month. If it's bad, then pull him back and slow down things. Covid and a neck issued has slowed his return. I feel it’s more that than being babied
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 18, 2021 15:38:30 GMT -5
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sportshubby
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Post by sportshubby on Jun 22, 2021 14:07:40 GMT -5
Boogeyman just popped up on Seadogs twitter. Looks like he is in Portland now.
Hopefully the link works.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 26, 2021 13:45:20 GMT -5
Alex Cora also said yesterday that Sale would face hitters again next week barring any setbacks. A rehab assignment could follow.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 30, 2021 14:23:32 GMT -5
Saying that I am excited about this is an understatement
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 15:01:45 GMT -5
One thing Cora has said that I disagree with is Sale not getting any time in the pen to get ready, only when he is ready to start. Sale has said he would be willing to get innings in the pen to ramp up, which is code for him saying he wants to pitch at the ML level to help the team. If after a few games in the minors why not bring him up to get ready out of the pen if he is dealing.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 30, 2021 15:13:20 GMT -5
One thing Cora has said that I disagree with is Sale not getting any time in the pen to get ready, only when he is ready to start. Sale has said he would be willing to get innings in the pen to ramp up, which is code for him saying he wants to pitch at the ML level to help the team. If after a few games in the minors why not bring him up to get ready out of the pen if he is dealing. Depends on what he's doing. If he's at a point where he's literally just stretching out that's one thing and sure, why not throw him in the majors out of the bullpen, but you want him to feel the freedom to throw all of his pitches and work on things without it "counting" too. I don't know that it's as simple as the former.
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