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Chris Sale - Return of the Boogeyman
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 15:16:17 GMT -5
One thing Cora has said that I disagree with is Sale not getting any time in the pen to get ready, only when he is ready to start. Sale has said he would be willing to get innings in the pen to ramp up, which is code for him saying he wants to pitch at the ML level to help the team. If after a few games in the minors why not bring him up to get ready out of the pen if he is dealing. Depends on what he's doing. If he's at a point where he's literally just stretching out that's one thing and sure, why not throw him in the majors out of the bullpen, but you want him to feel the freedom to throw all of his pitches and work on things without it "counting" too. I don't know that it's as simple as the former. Agreed, like I said. If he is dealing
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 30, 2021 15:19:48 GMT -5
He may be better as the elbow injury dates to his time with the White Sox and he received Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections in his elbow. Or at least better in the sense of being more durable over a season. I think they need to pump the brakes on him, rein him in so he does not push too hard. Patience and baby steps. Pump the brakes on a bullpen session 15 months after TJ surgery? They have already been crazy patience with baby steps. Just my two cents, yet you seem closer to giving him freedom and see what he can do. I hope to see him on a rehab assignment my the end of the month. If it's bad, then pull him back and slow down things. I think optimists had late June/July as his return date. August seems to be taking precautions so agreed that there has been no rush in his rehab. The Red Sox can afford to go slow with him, but would like to see a month and a half worth of work to see what he has before the playoffs. On a side note, it's great to be able to so confidently speak of the playoffs. Hopefully the Red Sox can avoid the play-in game.
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 30, 2021 23:33:00 GMT -5
Pump the brakes on a bullpen session 15 months after TJ surgery? They have already been crazy patience with baby steps. Just my two cents, yet you seem closer to giving him freedom and see what he can do. I hope to see him on a rehab assignment my the end of the month. If it's bad, then pull him back and slow down things. I think optimists had late June/July as his return date. August seems to be taking precautions so agreed that there has been no rush in his rehab. The Red Sox can afford to go slow with him, but would like to see a month and a half worth of work to see what he has before the playoffs. On a side note, it's great to be able to so confidently speak of the playoffs. Hopefully the Red Sox can avoid the play-in game. Do I dare call a potential play in game a MORTAL LOCK with Sale, Whitlock, Ottovino, Barnes combining for a SHUTOUT???
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jul 6, 2021 17:46:40 GMT -5
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 10, 2021 14:17:14 GMT -5
One thing Cora has said that I disagree with is Sale not getting any time in the pen to get ready, only when he is ready to start. Sale has said he would be willing to get innings in the pen to ramp up, which is code for him saying he wants to pitch at the ML level to help the team. If after a few games in the minors why not bring him up to get ready out of the pen if he is dealing. Depends on what he's doing. If he's at a point where he's literally just stretching out that's one thing and sure, why not throw him in the majors out of the bullpen, but you want him to feel the freedom to throw all of his pitches and work on things without it "counting" too. I don't know that it's as simple as the former. I would say that it's not just a question of "ramping up" in ML games that "count," but in doing so Sale would be taking up both a 25- and 40-man roster spot that would need to be opened up. I don't think they do that when they can avoid it by just doing a traditional minor league rehab, particularly with guys like Houck (25-man) and Brasier and Duran (both 25- and 40-man) also figuring to be in the mix. I'm as excited to get Sale back as anyone but I think he rehabs in the minors like everyone else.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 12, 2021 23:51:03 GMT -5
Does anybody have any stats or charts on pitchers coming off TJ. As far as pitch and inning counts and how that progresses going forward. Is it reasonable to think ( without setbacks obviously) that chris could be close to fully stretched out / strength by playoffs??
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 13, 2021 9:18:23 GMT -5
Does anyone have a timeline of all the times he has thrown off a mound? Wondering if there's a regular, 5-day schedule. Asking for a friend who is from Worcester. (Also for my brother, who lives within driving distance of Portland... also have an aunt in Greenville but I doubt she knows who Chris Sale is...)
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 14, 2021 4:10:55 GMT -5
I think it might make sense to have Sale be a multi inning relief specialist as he builds back up, almost supplanting Whitlock in that role, and letting GW pitch in more of a traditional set-up role (which is already kind of happening), now that he's through the first 2 months. I think it could be a useful way to build innings responsibly for both, and when I think about this, would Sale be ready to be top SP option in the playoffs, or having him pitch as that "rover" they used in '18 a more valuable role for him this year? The latter might be more effective. This would give them a really deep and potent BP down the stretch, and keep the starters in that 5-6 inning window where they've been so effective. This could work, but I like him as an opener even better. I feel like it would benefit him more to have set days he's pitching. Its not like he can't handle it, but pitching x innings every 4-5 days will get him on track faster. As for Whitlock I wish he was in our rotation haha.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 14, 2021 4:14:30 GMT -5
Does anybody have any stats or charts on pitchers coming off TJ. As far as pitch and inning counts and how that progresses going forward. Is it reasonable to think ( without setbacks obviously) that chris could be close to fully stretched out / strength by playoffs?? Not 100%, but my guess would be he's fully stretched out by late August-early September. At least I hope so. I doubt the Sox would give him like 1 start then tell him to pitch a playoff game.
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sportshubby
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Post by sportshubby on Jul 15, 2021 16:08:32 GMT -5
Per Alex Cora Sale's next start would be in Portland. I have tickets for the 20th and that would be the fifth day. Anybody suspect that he would have a different date? If I need to buy some more tickets, it won't hurt my feelings.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 15, 2021 16:10:44 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 15, 2021 16:46:43 GMT -5
I don't care what the Sox have been saying about Sale and him staying down on the farm til he is ramped up. He wants to contribute and if he is ready to do that before he can go 5+ then you get that out of him while he ramps up. The Sox are going to be in a pennant race for the rest of the season so it should be all hands on deck and if Sale can give you 2 or 3 quality innings then you take it. If he can't and he isn't dealing then that is another thing but if he is then use him, it is what he wants and it would be best for the team.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 15, 2021 16:54:39 GMT -5
If they keep him on 5 days rest, his fourth start would be on 7/30, the day before the deadline. The plan has to be for that to be his MLB debut, right? Get a look at him against MLB pitching, and (less obviously) maybe scare some other teams into making a short-term trade that (like almost every deadline deal) is a loss long-run.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 15, 2021 16:57:27 GMT -5
I don't care what the Sox have been saying about Sale and him staying down on the farm til he is ramped up. He wants to contribute and if he is ready to do that before he can go 5+ then you get that out of him while he ramps up. The Sox are going to be in a pennant race for the rest of the season so it should be all hands on deck and if Sale can give you 2 or 3 quality innings then you take it. If he can't and he isn't dealing then that is another thing but if he is then use him, it is what he wants and it would be best for the team. If he's dominant in Portland on the 20th, you could absolutely see him starting in MLB on the 25th and throwing 4 or 5 innings, with Houck on piggyback.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 15, 2021 16:59:31 GMT -5
My concern would not be that he'd be unable to contribute, but that he'd push himself too hard, too fast. Don't want to risk another injury!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 15, 2021 17:04:05 GMT -5
If they keep him on 5 days rest, his fourth start would be on 7/30, the day before the deadline. The plan has to be for that to be his MLB debut, right? Get a look at him against MLB pitching, and (less obviously) maybe scare some other teams into making a short-term trade that (like almost every deadline deal) is a loss long-run. The deadline this year is at 4pm on Friday, July 30th, so a start by Sale on that day would be after the deadline.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 15, 2021 17:14:43 GMT -5
In Portland on the 20th.
On the 25th, Worcester is still on the road and Portland at home, so he probably throws in Portland again.
30th either Worcester at home or for Red Sox in Tampa Bay.
I'd be inclined to say he's in Worcester on the 30th, but he did throw three innings today. You could see 4 next Tuesday and 5 on the 25th. It likely depends how the starts on the 20th and 25th go.
That said, I don't know that one Chris Sale start on 7/30 is going to change what any team does (any more than him shoving against AAA hitters would, right?).
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 15, 2021 18:48:30 GMT -5
In Portland on the 20th. On the 25th, Worcester is still on the road and Portland at home, so he probably throws in Portland again. 30th either Worcester at home or for Red Sox in Tampa Bay. I'd be inclined to say he's in Worcester on the 30th, but he did throw three innings today. You could see 4 next Tuesday and 5 on the 25th. It likely depends how the starts on the 20th and 25th go. That said, I don't know that one Chris Sale start on 7/30 is going to change what any team does (any more than him shoving against AAA hitters would, right?). First and foremost, let's see how he feels tomorrow morning.
But I was also just doing the same math. If he's going to pitch on 7/30 in Tampa, he could go down a few days early without the team, since his home and Jet Blue aren't far from there and he wouldn't officially be on the roster until the day of that game. If he doesn't pitch in Tampa on 7/30, would it make sense to move him from Portland to Worcester just for one start? If he pitches in Portland on 7/30, that would be three straight starts there, which would be logistically easier for him (e.g. one hotel, one clubhouse). Of course, the Worcester players would love to have him there for the spread he would provide... either way, get ready for AYCE lobster, Sea Dogs!
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 15, 2021 18:54:23 GMT -5
My concern would not be that he'd be unable to contribute, but that he'd push himself too hard, too fast. Don't want to risk another injury! I'm totally with you.
This FO and coaching staff has been very deliberate with every personnel move thus far (how long did they wait to demote Franchy? how many ABs have they given to Santana and Marwin?). I don't see them trying to squeeze him in, especially in a weird role.
Plus, as I've mentioned before, he'll require both a 25- and 40-man roster spot, so there will need to be equal and opposite moves, which I don't think they'll hurry to do just so they can get a few extra innings from him before he's ready to take a regular turn.
I guess we'll see...
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jul 17, 2021 13:31:54 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,882
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 17, 2021 13:54:28 GMT -5
Man, I was against the Sale extension, but if the new nutrition and workout thing ends up solving his huge problem wearing down the last 2 months of the season, it'll be worth every penny. Because Sale not worn down is just about the best pitcher on the planet. Top two at least.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 17, 2021 14:22:32 GMT -5
Man, I was against the Sale extension, but if the new nutrition and workout thing ends up solving his huge problem wearing down the last 2 months of the season, it'll be worth every penny. Because Sale not worn down is just about the best pitcher on the planet. Top two at least. I also had reservations about the extension but he's such a great character and is all-in all-the-time. It sounds like the TJ time off might have allowed him to take a step back and re-evaluate some things, which may really pay off. Between that and earning the 4th overall pick, 2020 may go down as one of the great years in Sox history.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 17, 2021 14:34:58 GMT -5
Hmm, I'd forgotten he has an opt out after 2022. If he pitches like the old Chris Sale through next season would he do it?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jul 17, 2021 14:37:43 GMT -5
Hmm, I'd forgotten he has an opt out after 2022. If he pitches like the old Chris Sale through next season would he do it? He said he won't but you never know.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 17, 2021 14:40:26 GMT -5
Hmm, I'd forgotten he has an opt out after 2022. If he pitches like the old Chris Sale through next season would he do it? I don't think so. I think Chris Sale genuinely wants to be a Red Sox for life. If he did opt out I think it would be to extend his deal with the Sox. Sale strikes me as that rare individual not motivated by money. I think he just wants to be happy and comfortable and he is all those things in Boston.
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