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Chris Sale - Return of the Boogeyman
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 17, 2021 15:02:05 GMT -5
Hmm, I'd forgotten he has an opt out after 2022. If he pitches like the old Chris Sale through next season would he do it? I don't think so. I think Chris Sale genuinely wants to be a Red Sox for life. If he did opt out I think it would be to extend his deal with the Sox. Sale strikes me as that rare individual not motivated by money. I think he just wants to be happy and comfortable and he is all those things in Boston. Sale does seem like the ultimate competitor and just wants to win. The deal will stay pay him handsomely. I think if he believes the sox will be a world series competitor over the remainder of the deal that he would be inclined to stay.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2021 8:33:28 GMT -5
Hard to see him wanting to hit the market entering his age 34 season unless he absolutely deals next year.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 19, 2021 9:56:04 GMT -5
Hard to see him wanting to hit the market entering his age 34 season unless he absolutely deals next year. He should also start having some thoughts on legacy. He's probably short of HOF right now, and a successful late-career finish with the Red Sox would go much further to put him in that conversation. Another ring would help too.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2021 10:07:23 GMT -5
Hard to see him wanting to hit the market entering his age 34 season unless he absolutely deals next year. He should also start having some thoughts on legacy. He's probably short of HOF right now, and a successful late-career finish with the Red Sox would go much further to put him in that conversation. Another ring would help too. I don't know that who he finishes his career with is going to make a difference though, no? Like Verlander going to Houston doesn't change his HOF prospects, nor does Greinke bouncing between a few teams change his. If Sale pitches like "Chris Sale" from next year through the end of this current deal, he's probably in - he's career 45.5 bWAR, so four 5-bWAR seasons probably gets him there (context: Scherzer at 63.8 career bWAR, Kershaw 71.7, Verlander 71.8, Greinke 74.1 whereas Sale is fifth on the active list at 45.5). If you look at it, it depends on how much longer Sale wants to pitch. He's got 2 or 3 years left on this deal after the opt-out. Does he want to wait and sign a 1 or 2 year deal after this one, or sign a 4-5 year deal after 2022? Or is he done after this deal? Honestly, it might be a situation that's best for both sides if they just re-work the current deal after the opt-out to add a year and spread out the AAV or something. I don't think it's a coincidence that both the Bogaerts and Sale opt-outs are after the next CBA goes into effect.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 20, 2021 19:04:00 GMT -5
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 20, 2021 20:28:29 GMT -5
I think nutrition is an area our minor leagues should really focus. We’ve got all these young athletes and they’re eating like 13 year olds. Maybe, minor league clubs should have to feed them. Focus on nutrition. Not hot dogs
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Post by benzinger on Jul 20, 2021 22:19:07 GMT -5
I think nutrition is an area our minor leagues should really focus. We’ve got all these young athletes and they’re eating like 13 year olds. Maybe, minor league clubs should have to feed them. Focus on nutrition. Not hot dogs Where did you get the inside scoop on what minor leaguers are eating?
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Post by telson13 on Jul 21, 2021 1:15:37 GMT -5
The return of Chris Sale could be the kind of storyline that drives a season and tightens a team up. Looking forward to him getting back on a mound. Yup. Gotta imagine (especially with him looking AND *sounding* good out there--the pop!) that it's both going to drive some excitement but also calm...it's a lot easier to relax and have fun when you can figure you're probably getting the best deadline addition in baseball while in first place. Adds depth too. The addition of Duran (I think he'll settle into .260/.340/.420 territory this season and steal plenty of bags, not to mention have at least one prolonged torrid streak) and particularly Sale is a huge boost for an already pretty talented team. Tough to argue that they're not the opening salvo in the conversation for the best second-half team on paper in baseball. They've also got a ton of depth with Wilson and Franchy, along with Houck (he's a legit MIRP beast candidate) and probably Seabold (who seems like a classic "stuff ticks up nicely in short stints a la Wade Davis"). I'm pretty excited for this team's chances...I imagine they are, too.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 21, 2021 1:49:07 GMT -5
I honestly think Sale is going to be one of the best pitchers in baseball for the next 5 years and the HOF will be an obvious yes. Nothing in his resume says anything different, when healthy he is a top 3 pitcher.
He competes really hard and takes pride in it, always has and always will. I wouldn't be surprised if he is going strong for the next 10 years, hopefully for Boston.
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Post by jchang on Jul 21, 2021 2:28:06 GMT -5
In the year dalbec was drafted, he and groome were assigned to Lowell, at a game in Connecticut, I saw dalbec before the game eating either a chili dog or a hot dog heavily dressed. Can’t extrapolate one point to 7/24, but … actually, I think pizza offers the best calorie per dollar, but a young athlete could also do well going all out at a buffet one day, eat light the next, and repeat
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 21, 2021 7:24:21 GMT -5
I think nutrition is an area our minor leagues should really focus. We’ve got all these young athletes and they’re eating like 13 year olds. Maybe, minor league clubs should have to feed them. Focus on nutrition. Not hot dogs Where did you get the inside scoop on what minor leaguers are eating? There have been some stories, e.g. this one about the horrible ham and cheese on white that the As were giving minor leaguers in the Spring. www.golfdigest.com/story/oakland-athletics-minor-league-baseball-meals-food-fail
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 21, 2021 10:03:00 GMT -5
I think nutrition is an area our minor leagues should really focus. We’ve got all these young athletes and they’re eating like 13 year olds. Maybe, minor league clubs should have to feed them. Focus on nutrition. Not hot dogs That was one aspect included in the changes that are supposed to be happening at the minor league level this year. I'm not sure if they actually are happening, but it seems to make sense to provide better nutrition and nutrition information to the minor league players. For a few hundred thousand dollars a year the Red Sox should be able to provide a pretty high quality food service 1-2 times per day for each minor leaguer - I'd think it would provide a competitive advantage. (also, training minor leaguers to eat well once they make the majors would be a big plus)
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dd
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Post by dd on Jul 21, 2021 10:35:45 GMT -5
I honestly think Sale is going to be one of the best pitchers in baseball for the next 5 years and the HOF will be an obvious yes. Nothing in his resume says anything different, when healthy he is a top 3 pitcher. He competes really hard and takes pride in it, always has and always will. I wouldn't be surprised if he is going strong for the next 10 years, hopefully for Boston. My fingers are so tightly crossed they're losing circulation!
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 21, 2021 10:38:51 GMT -5
Looking over the schedules of the Sea Dogs, Woo Sox, and BOS the next couple of weeks, I'm going to guess the following progression: 7/25: 70 pitches in Portland 7/30: 80-90 pitches in Worcester 8/4: 4-5 IP in Detroit 8/10: 5-6 IP in Fenway vs. TB That would be four minor league rehab starts in total, which seems sufficient given how well he's throwing and how great he says he feels (so far...).
It's happening...
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 21, 2021 12:24:01 GMT -5
Looking over the schedules of the Sea Dogs, Woo Sox, and BOS the next couple of weeks, I'm going to guess the following progression: 7/25: 70 pitches in Portland 7/30: 80-90 pitches in Worcester 8/4: 4-5 IP in Detroit 8/10: 5-6 IP in Fenway vs. TB That would be four minor league rehab starts in total, which seems sufficient given how well he's throwing and how great he says he feels (so far...).
It's happening...
I suggest that if he pitches as well the next time out why waste a start in the minors, bring him up after 3 instead of 4. Can't really see any reason why not even if he does only go 4 innings.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 21, 2021 15:47:44 GMT -5
Looking over the schedules of the Sea Dogs, Woo Sox, and BOS the next couple of weeks, I'm going to guess the following progression: 7/25: 70 pitches in Portland 7/30: 80-90 pitches in Worcester 8/4: 4-5 IP in Detroit 8/10: 5-6 IP in Fenway vs. TB That would be four minor league rehab starts in total, which seems sufficient given how well he's throwing and how great he says he feels (so far...).
It's happening...
I suggest that if he pitches as well the next time out why waste a start in the minors, bring him up after 3 instead of 4. Can't really see any reason why not even if he does only go 4 innings. I keep seeing people say this but don't understand it.
They are not going to rush him back. They shouldn't rush him back. Just because he's looking great in his rehab doesn't mean that it isn't dangerous to put him in a major league game where he reaches back for a little extra at the highest stress times. He's so competitive that it's the one thing I worry about. Him pushing himself too hard and also not revealing any discomfort to trainers because he just wants the damn ball.
With Sale, the big picture is so much more important than one extra start.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jul 21, 2021 16:28:38 GMT -5
I suggest that if he pitches as well the next time out why waste a start in the minors, bring him up after 3 instead of 4. Can't really see any reason why not even if he does only go 4 innings. I keep seeing people say this but don't understand it. They are not going to rush him back. They shouldn't rush him back. Just because he's looking great in his rehab doesn't mean that it isn't dangerous to put him in a major league game where he reaches back for a little extra at the highest stress times. He's so competitive that it's the one thing I worry about. Him pushing himself too hard and also not revealing any discomfort to trainers because he just wants the damn ball. With Sale, the big picture is so much more important than one extra start.
This. Also it seems like everyone is calculating the workload in terms of innings instead of pitchs. You can log 4 innings on 50 pitchs when facing an AA lineup but vs an MLB one? Hitters are way more selective and can foul pitchs driving the pitch count to 50 just to get through 2 innings and you find yourself taxing the 'pen. One thing I'm sure of, they know how much Sale means to this organization and they'll want him fully operational when they'll activate him (Brad Pearson was with him at the game yesterday) Team is in first place, absolutely no need to risk anything.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 21, 2021 17:01:22 GMT -5
I keep seeing people say this but don't understand it. They are not going to rush him back. They shouldn't rush him back. Just because he's looking great in his rehab doesn't mean that it isn't dangerous to put him in a major league game where he reaches back for a little extra at the highest stress times. He's so competitive that it's the one thing I worry about. Him pushing himself too hard and also not revealing any discomfort to trainers because he just wants the damn ball. With Sale, the big picture is so much more important than one extra start.
This. Also it seems like everyone is calculating the workload in terms of innings instead of pitchs. You can log 4 innings on 50 pitchs when facing an AA lineup but vs an MLB one? Hitters are way more selective and can foul pitchs driving the pitch count to 50 just to get through 2 innings and you find yourself taxing the 'pen. One thing I'm sure of, they know how much Sale means to this organization and they'll want him fully operational when they'll activate him (Brad Pearson was with him at the game yesterday) Team is in first place, absolutely no need to risk anything. So we don't trust Chris Sale and we could be tied for 1st when the night is over but 1 game doesn't matter. All because throwing 50, 60, 70 pitches in AAA is different than the throwing in the bigs for a veteran like Sale, I get it.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2021 8:32:51 GMT -5
This. Also it seems like everyone is calculating the workload in terms of innings instead of pitchs. You can log 4 innings on 50 pitchs when facing an AA lineup but vs an MLB one? Hitters are way more selective and can foul pitchs driving the pitch count to 50 just to get through 2 innings and you find yourself taxing the 'pen. One thing I'm sure of, they know how much Sale means to this organization and they'll want him fully operational when they'll activate him (Brad Pearson was with him at the game yesterday) Team is in first place, absolutely no need to risk anything. So we don't trust Chris Sale and we could be tied for 1st when the night is over but 1 game doesn't matter. All because throwing 50, 60, 70 pitches in AAA is different than the throwing in the bigs for a veteran like Sale, I get it. Yes, it is. It's also why they actually have rehab starts instead of just throwing live batting practice. Rehab starts do not matter like MLB games so they are way less stressful.
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brett
New Member
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Post by brett on Jul 23, 2021 22:37:37 GMT -5
But... Can someone please tell me whose status will change with regard to the 40-man roster to make room for Sale's return? Will it be Mata to 60-day? Will Bloom trade a young infielder (Chavis, Dalbec)? Andriese (to 60-day, cut, traded)? Danny Santana cut?
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Post by foreverred9 on Jul 23, 2021 23:21:15 GMT -5
I think you hit the right options, I would lean towards the last two options. Cutting Workman could also be an option. There isn't room in the bullpen for Andriese with Houck and Sale on the staff, especially if Sawamura isn't out for long. Similarly Duran makes Santana expendable.
Mata is always an option, but an expensive one because moving him to the 60-day IL starts his service clock.
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Post by jmei on Jul 24, 2021 9:47:19 GMT -5
With only two months left in the season, the Mata to 60-day DL option looks more and more appealing. A lot of pitchers are going to see huge year-over-year innings increases (same for position players, albeit with less of an injury risk) and I’d be inclined to keep as much depth as I can.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2021 13:18:49 GMT -5
I think you hit the right options, I would lean towards the last two options. Cutting Workman could also be an option. There isn't room in the bullpen for Andriese with Houck and Sale on the staff, especially if Sawamura isn't out for long. Similarly Duran makes Santana expendable. Mata is always an option, but an expensive one because moving him to the 60-day IL starts his service clock. That's such a dumb rule. Almost as dumb as international players being so young when they're rule 5 eligible and running out of options at age 23 or 24.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 24, 2021 20:24:20 GMT -5
I think you hit the right options, I would lean towards the last two options. Cutting Workman could also be an option. There isn't room in the bullpen for Andriese with Houck and Sale on the staff, especially if Sawamura isn't out for long. Similarly Duran makes Santana expendable. Mata is always an option, but an expensive one because moving him to the 60-day IL starts his service clock. That's such a dumb rule. Almost as dumb as international players being so young when they're rule 5 eligible and running out of options at age 23 or 24. It's a pretty awesome rule if you're an MiLB player, especially Mata. The guy signed for 25k out of Venezuela and that rule may net him ~350k. If he doesn't make it for some reason, that money could be life changing.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 25, 2021 11:34:05 GMT -5
That's such a dumb rule. Almost as dumb as international players being so young when they're rule 5 eligible and running out of options at age 23 or 24. It's a pretty awesome rule if you're an MiLB player, especially Mata. The guy signed for 25k out of Venezuela and that rule may net him ~350k. If he doesn't make it for some reason, that money could be life changing. I'd rather that they get paid significantly more as minor leaguers than to get paid significantly more as injured players that have to be stashed on the major league 60 day iL because of stupid roster rules. I'd also like it if you don't have to designate someone who isn't ready for the majors but still a strong prospect because they're out of options. (and possibly ruin their development to the majors)
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