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6/22-6/24 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on Jun 23, 2021 8:14:30 GMT -5
Franco this year AAA 39 games 162 ABs .315 AVE/. 367 OBP/ .586 SLG/ .954 OPS 51 hits 7 HRs 12 BB 21 Ks 0 SBs also has a total 829 Minor League ABS Duran this year AAA (Duran lost two weeks to Team USA) 32 games 130 ABs .285 AVE/ .373 OBP/ .615 SLG/ .989 OPS 37 hits 12 HRs 16 BB 35 Ks 7 SBs. also has a total of 932 Minor League ABS Tampa not sweating the Super 2 status of their 20 year-old phenom. Sox, if that’s what their waiting on for their 24 year-old phenom, are being penny-wise and pound straight-up stupid. Super 2 is pretty much past. Franco is the number 1 prospect in baseball, a likely future star and he won't be super 2. Right now, we're too crowded with people that need to be moved. That's what's holding Duran now, super 2 is no longer an issue. so is Bloom afraid that if he dfa’s Santana he will go elsewhere and will become a superstar? Because if that’s the case it seems highly unlikely based on the data. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 23, 2021 9:18:14 GMT -5
LOL at pages 6-9 in the thread. I love Gameday threads. Too bad my old guy status didn't allow me to stay up. Nice win.
This team is a riot !! Good things happening !! Let's Go !!!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 23, 2021 9:27:54 GMT -5
Super 2 is pretty much past. Franco is the number 1 prospect in baseball, a likely future star and he won't be super 2. Right now, we're too crowded with people that need to be moved. That's what's holding Duran now, super 2 is no longer an issue. so is Bloom afraid that if he dfa’s Santana he will go elsewhere and will become a superstar? Because if that’s the case it seems highly unlikely based on the data. I think Bloom will soon try (or is trying) to move at least one of the utility guys plus $$ for a lottery ticket that doesn't need to be on the 40 man at the end of the year. A utility guy at minimum wage to a team with budget problems should appeal. |
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Post by patford on Jun 23, 2021 9:32:39 GMT -5
Super 2 is pretty much past. Franco is the number 1 prospect in baseball, a likely future star and he won't be super 2. Right now, we're too crowded with people that need to be moved. That's what's holding Duran now, super 2 is no longer an issue. so is Bloom afraid that if he dfa’s Santana he will go elsewhere and will become a superstar? Because if that’s the case it seems highly unlikely based on the data. The fact the Sox are in 1st place allows Bloom to be extra patient with guys like Dalbec and Santana. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 9:32:54 GMT -5
A well rested pen and 5 shut out innings for the win. |
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Post by cba82 on Jun 23, 2021 9:46:47 GMT -5
“Cora takes a good hard look at a few things that need to really be cleaned up so we can keep and enlarge the lead. Santana - time to say goodbye. Clean up the infield D and the baserunning.” — I’d start by DFAing Santana today, and bringing up Arauz to play second until Arroyo is healthy enough to play. Next, I’d call up Franchy and DFA Marwin. Finally, likely post-All Star Game, I’d promote Duran and send down Arauz at that point.
You heard it here first.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 9:52:38 GMT -5
“Cora takes a good hard look at a few things that need to really be cleaned up so we can keep and enlarge the lead. Santana - time to say goodbye. Clean up the infield D and the baserunning.” — I’d start by DFAing Santana today, and bringing up Arauz to play second until Arroyo is healthy enough to play. Next, I’d call up Franchy and DFA Marwin. Finally, likely post-All Star Game, I’d promote Duran and send down Arauz at that point. You heard it here first. I don't see Marwin Gonzalez going anywhere. Not that I think he's much of a major league player anymore, but at least he can switch hit (not that he hits from either side) or he can play multiple positions and Cora seems to like him for the clubhouse. Marwin isn't going to be DFA. I'm just hoping that his name doesn't get penciled into the lineup too often. I could see Duran coming up at some point with Santana being the casualty but it's just as possible it's Yacksel Rios' spot that Duran takes on the roster. |
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Post by manfred on Jun 23, 2021 10:21:41 GMT -5
“Cora takes a good hard look at a few things that need to really be cleaned up so we can keep and enlarge the lead. Santana - time to say goodbye. Clean up the infield D and the baserunning.” — I’d start by DFAing Santana today, and bringing up Arauz to play second until Arroyo is healthy enough to play. Next, I’d call up Franchy and DFA Marwin. Finally, likely post-All Star Game, I’d promote Duran and send down Arauz at that point. You heard it here first. I don't see Marwin Gonzalez going anywhere. Not that I think he's much of a major league player anymore, but at least he can switch hit (not that he hits from either side) or he can play multiple positions and Cora seems to like him for the clubhouse. Marwin isn't going to be DFA. I'm just hoping that his name doesn't get penciled into the lineup too often. I could see Duran coming up at some point with Santana being the casualty but it's just as possible it's Yacksel Rios' spot that Duran takes on the roster. You can’t DFA Marwin, who plays every position, for Franchy who has not proven he can play one. Santana can go, but let’s recall early when Franchy wasn’t hitting people were clamoring for him to come up. My point is simply that there are no obvious improvements, so if you, say, bring up Arauz, it is a real possibility he can’t hit either. And Duran might struggle as well. |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 23, 2021 10:25:25 GMT -5
Franco this year AAA 39 games 162 ABs .315 AVE/. 367 OBP/ .586 SLG/ .954 OPS 51 hits 7 HRs 12 BB 21 Ks 0 SBs also has a total 829 Minor League ABS Duran this year AAA (Duran lost two weeks to Team USA) 32 games 130 ABs .285 AVE/ .373 OBP/ .615 SLG/ .989 OPS 37 hits 12 HRs 16 BB 35 Ks 7 SBs. also has a total of 932 Minor League ABS Tampa not sweating the Super 2 status of their 20 year-old phenom. Sox, if that’s what their waiting on for their 24 year-old phenom, are being penny-wise and pound straight-up stupid. That's very obviously not what they're doing, so I'm not sure why you're even bothering with this. Look I'm excited for Duran too, but there are still games where he's seemingly overmatched by AAA pitching, there is a pretty valid argument he's not 100% ready. The worst thing you could do for a prospect is rush him, so I'm not sure why you and others can't just relax and be patient for once, and trust that sometimes these guys have a better plan than you. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 10:30:22 GMT -5
I don't see Marwin Gonzalez going anywhere. Not that I think he's much of a major league player anymore, but at least he can switch hit (not that he hits from either side) or he can play multiple positions and Cora seems to like him for the clubhouse. Marwin isn't going to be DFA. I'm just hoping that his name doesn't get penciled into the lineup too often. I could see Duran coming up at some point with Santana being the casualty but it's just as possible it's Yacksel Rios' spot that Duran takes on the roster. You can’t DFA Marwin, who plays every position, for Franchy who has not proven he can play one. Santana can go, but let’s recall early when Franchy wasn’t hitting people were clamoring for him to come up. My point is simply that there are no obvious improvements, so if you, say, bring up Arauz, it is a real possibility he can’t hit either. And Duran might struggle as well. The Sox need to start trying out the reinforcements from the farm in order to know if they should make a trade to fill the hole in the OF, time is running short. Wouldn't it be a good idea to find out now if Franchy has improved enough to contribute? |
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Post by manfred on Jun 23, 2021 10:36:34 GMT -5
You can’t DFA Marwin, who plays every position, for Franchy who has not proven he can play one. Santana can go, but let’s recall early when Franchy wasn’t hitting people were clamoring for him to come up. My point is simply that there are no obvious improvements, so if you, say, bring up Arauz, it is a real possibility he can’t hit either. And Duran might struggle as well. The Sox need to start trying out the reinforcements from the farm in order to know if they should make a trade to fill the hole in the OF, time is running short. Wouldn't it be a good idea to find out now if Franchy has improved enough to contribute? Franchy for Santana is fine. Can’t do it for Marwin. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 23, 2021 10:47:19 GMT -5
For everyone who wants to replace Santana with Duran, Santana plays in like half the team's games. It's not that simple. Calling up Duran means committing to, yes, DFA'ing Santana (easy) and cutting the playing time of Hernandez, Arroyo, Renfroe, and Dalbec. It's that they're not ready to do that yet. And for whatever it's worth: Hernandez since June 7: 51 PA, .279/.373/.488, 6 2B, 1 HR Arroyo since May 29 (2nd game off IL): 58 PA, .269/.333/.538 (albeit with a 38% K rate) Dalbec since June 5: 58 PA, .259/.310/.574, 4 HR (36% K rate) Renfroe since May 1: 172 PA, .296/.349/.516, 8 HR So those guys aren't the problem right now. Would it be better if Santana and Gonzalez weren't getting so much PT, and there was someone obvious to lead off with and keep 2-7 in place, where everyone seems to be comfortable? Yes. Duran might make that work. And for anyone who's calling for Araúz or, as I'm still seeing on Twitter sometimes somehow, Yairo Muñoz, what exactly makes you think they'd be better? www.soxprospects.com/stats/hitting.php?split=0&page=1&sortby=YR&team=533&year=2021&type=1&min=0As for Franchy, I mean... we've seen it, no? I thought the point was to get him at-bats every day? So now we're using him to replace Santana... who doesn't play every day? It doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. He's at 22 games in Worcester. If like, 14 games had been enough to change their minds, they shouldn't have sent him down. We're getting to the point that he's an option, but again, he's cutting into the above guys' playing time too if he's the guy as well. I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything going forward - I'm personally getting to the point where I think calling up Duran and fitting him in the way described above will make sense, especially given Arroyo's continued durability issues and potential workload maintenance concerns, plus the real chance he and Dalbec turn back into pumpkins. I'm just responding to the "what the hell are they doing?" argument, which ignores the fact that the starters who'd lose playing time have all been hitting pretty damn well lately. We're getting there. Patience. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 10:55:28 GMT -5
You canât DFA Marwin, who plays every position, for Franchy who has not proven he can play one. Santana can go, but letâs recall early when Franchy wasnât hitting people were clamoring for him to come up. My point is simply that there are no obvious improvements, so if you, say, bring up Arauz, it is a real possibility he canât hit either. And Duran might struggle as well. The Sox need to start trying out the reinforcements from the farm in order to know if they should make a trade to fill the hole in the OF, time is running short. Wouldn't it be a good idea to find out now if Franchy has improved enough to contribute? I can see the idea of Franchy being part of a Franchy/Verdugo/Renfroe trio in the outfield, especially now with Arroyo out for a little while, but ultimately there are two issues that will make it less desireable than Verdugo/Duran/Renfroe. First it forces Verdugo into CF where I think he's better off as a corner OF. Second, having Franchy on board does nothing to resolve the leadoff hitter problem. That's why Duran is crucial. The Sox need a better option at leadoff. I don't know that Cora would immediately thrust him into that role, and no, we don't know for sure that Duran would be clearly better, but I think there's a reasonable chance that he would be a big step up from Hernandez/Arroyo/Santana/Gonzalez in the leadoff spot. He's almost 25. At some point the Sox need to know what they have in Duran. And given his performance in AAA, I would think there's reason to be optimistic. The biggest obstacle to Franchy the comeback is Hunter Renfroe who keeps contributing everyday. If he was helpless against righties then that would open up time for Franchy but at this point I wouldn't gamble on Franchy when Renfroe has been so steady since that series in Arlington. So the Sox primarily need a leadoff hitter and CF more than a platoon LF, which means Duran. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Franchy in LF right now with Kiké at 2b and Verdugo in CF, but they must think Arroyo will return soon. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,830 
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Post by cdj on Jun 23, 2021 11:54:19 GMT -5
Yeah but don’t you see Munoz was average on a brutal team in games that didn’t matter last year, we MUST bring him up
Also it’s laughable that we got Taylor for Marrero. Score one for the home team there
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 12:19:58 GMT -5
Yeah but don’t you see Munoz was average on a brutal team in games that didn’t matter last year, we MUST bring him up Also it’s laughable that we got Taylor for Marrero. Score one for the home team there Score one for Dombrowski. A rare "small move" that was excellent. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 13:07:49 GMT -5
For everyone who wants to replace Santana with Duran, Santana plays in like half the team's games. It's not that simple. Calling up Duran means committing to, yes, DFA'ing Santana (easy) and cutting the playing time of Hernandez, Arroyo, Renfroe, and Dalbec. It's that they're not ready to do that yet. And for whatever it's worth: Hernandez since June 7: 51 PA, .279/.373/.488, 6 2B, 1 HR Arroyo since May 29 (2nd game off IL): 58 PA, .269/.333/.538 (albeit with a 38% K rate) Dalbec since June 5: 58 PA, .259/.310/.574, 4 HR (36% K rate) Renfroe since May 1: 172 PA, .296/.349/.516, 8 HR So those guys aren't the problem right now. Would it be better if Santana and Gonzalez weren't getting so much PT, and there was someone obvious to lead off with and keep 2-7 in place, where everyone seems to be comfortable? Yes. Duran might make that work. And for anyone who's calling for Araúz or, as I'm still seeing on Twitter sometimes somehow, Yairo Muñoz, what exactly makes you think they'd be better? www.soxprospects.com/stats/hitting.php?split=0&page=1&sortby=YR&team=533&year=2021&type=1&min=0As for Franchy, I mean... we've seen it, no? I thought the point was to get him at-bats every day? So now we're using him to replace Santana... who doesn't play every day? It doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. He's at 22 games in Worcester. If like, 14 games had been enough to change their minds, they shouldn't have sent him down. We're getting to the point that he's an option, but again, he's cutting into the above guys' playing time too if he's the guy as well. I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything going forward - I'm personally getting to the point where I think calling up Duran and fitting him in the way described above will make sense, especially given Arroyo's continued durability issues and potential workload maintenance concerns, plus the real chance he and Dalbec turn back into pumpkins. I'm just responding to the "what the hell are they doing?" argument, which ignores the fact that the starters who'd lose playing time have all been hitting pretty damn well lately. We're getting there. Patience. The guy I am most afraid of regressing is Kiki, because for him it isn't regressing as much as it is just what he has always done. Hunter and Dalbec on the other hand I think have a lot more potential to actually develop and excel. Sure Hunter has had his chances and isn't really a prospect you think about developing but it just seems he has a higher ceiling than what he has shown in the past. My hope is that now he has developed some patience and approach and that next he will bring his power back, maybe too much to ask but an OPS over 800 is within reach. And obviously Dalbec is not anywhere close to a finished project so their is a lot to be hopeful for there. You are right though, patience. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 13:26:19 GMT -5
For everyone who wants to replace Santana with Duran, Santana plays in like half the team's games. It's not that simple. Calling up Duran means committing to, yes, DFA'ing Santana (easy) and cutting the playing time of Hernandez, Arroyo, Renfroe, and Dalbec. It's that they're not ready to do that yet. And for whatever it's worth: Hernandez since June 7: 51 PA, .279/.373/.488, 6 2B, 1 HR Arroyo since May 29 (2nd game off IL): 58 PA, .269/.333/.538 (albeit with a 38% K rate) Dalbec since June 5: 58 PA, .259/.310/.574, 4 HR (36% K rate) Renfroe since May 1: 172 PA, .296/.349/.516, 8 HR So those guys aren't the problem right now. Would it be better if Santana and Gonzalez weren't getting so much PT, and there was someone obvious to lead off with and keep 2-7 in place, where everyone seems to be comfortable? Yes. Duran might make that work. And for anyone who's calling for Araúz or, as I'm still seeing on Twitter sometimes somehow, Yairo Muñoz, what exactly makes you think they'd be better? www.soxprospects.com/stats/hitting.php?split=0&page=1&sortby=YR&team=533&year=2021&type=1&min=0As for Franchy, I mean... we've seen it, no? I thought the point was to get him at-bats every day? So now we're using him to replace Santana... who doesn't play every day? It doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. He's at 22 games in Worcester. If like, 14 games had been enough to change their minds, they shouldn't have sent him down. We're getting to the point that he's an option, but again, he's cutting into the above guys' playing time too if he's the guy as well. I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything going forward - I'm personally getting to the point where I think calling up Duran and fitting him in the way described above will make sense, especially given Arroyo's continued durability issues and potential workload maintenance concerns, plus the real chance he and Dalbec turn back into pumpkins. I'm just responding to the "what the hell are they doing?" argument, which ignores the fact that the starters who'd lose playing time have all been hitting pretty damn well lately. We're getting there. Patience. The guy I am most afraid of regressing is Kiki, because for him it isn't regressing as much as it is just what he has always done. Hunter and Dalbec on the other hand I think have a lot more potential to actually develop and excel. Sure Hunter has had his chances and isn't really a prospect you think about developing but it just seems he has a higher ceiling than what he has shown in the past. My hope is that now he has developed some patience and approach and that next he will bring his power back, maybe too much to ask but an OPS over 800 is within reach. And obviously Dalbec is not anywhere close to a finished project so their is a lot to be hopeful for there. You are right though, patience. Basically Duran's call-up should most impact Kiké Hernandez. Hernandez is what he has always been - an asset against southpaws who isn't particularly good against righties. Duran should get those ABs against righties. Besides Hernandez can always pick up some ABs at 2b which might mean a reduction of ABs for Marwin Gonzalez, which isn't a bad thing. Besides Gonzalez is still the main backup at just about every position, including 1b which probably still needs a LH bat to spell Dalbec. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 13:27:10 GMT -5
The Sox need to start trying out the reinforcements from the farm in order to know if they should make a trade to fill the hole in the OF, time is running short. Wouldn't it be a good idea to find out now if Franchy has improved enough to contribute? I can see the idea of Franchy being part of a Franchy/Verdugo/Renfroe trio in the outfield, especially now with Arroyo out for a little while, but ultimately there are two issues that will make it less desireable than Verdugo/Duran/Renfroe. First it forces Verdugo into CF where I think he's better off as a corner OF. Second, having Franchy on board does nothing to resolve the leadoff hitter problem. That's why Duran is crucial. The Sox need a better option at leadoff. I don't know that Cora would immediately thrust him into that role, and no, we don't know for sure that Duran would be clearly better, but I think there's a reasonable chance that he would be a big step up from Hernandez/Arroyo/Santana/Gonzalez in the leadoff spot. He's almost 25. At some point the Sox need to know what they have in Duran. And given his performance in AAA, I would think there's reason to be optimistic. The biggest obstacle to Franchy the comeback is Hunter Renfroe who keeps contributing everyday. If he was helpless against righties then that would open up time for Franchy but at this point I wouldn't gamble on Franchy when Renfroe has been so steady since that series in Arlington. So the Sox primarily need a leadoff hitter and CF more than a platoon LF, which means Duran. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Franchy in LF right now with Kiké at 2b and Verdugo in CF, but they must think Arroyo will return soon. I would like to see a Franchy, Verdugo, Renfroe OF w Kiki and Marwin utility guys. Sox need that lead off guy but they also need to get more punch out of the 7,8,9. I am ready for the Duran call and hope it happens soon. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 23, 2021 13:43:51 GMT -5
Well, Rodriguez' ERA was higher than his FIP for the 8th consecutive start. But it was lower than his xFIP for the first time in that stretch - progress! (Not sure how 7 K and 1 BB in 6 IP gets you a 5.06 xFIP, but I'm sure the numerologists in the oracle's chambers know what they're doing.)
He continues to have the best xFIP and xERA in the rotation, along with the worst ERA by a wide margin.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 23, 2021 16:22:27 GMT -5
1. CF Danny "Bam Bam" Santana
2. LF Alex Verdugo
3. DH J.D. Martinez
4. SS Xander Bogaerts
5. 3B Rafael Devers
6. RF Hunter Renfroe
7. C Christian Vázquez
8. 2B Kiké Hernández
9. 1B Bobby Dalbec
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Post by incandenza on Jun 23, 2021 16:27:57 GMT -5
Facing a lefty, where Kiké is indisputably a better leadoff option than Santana.
That whole "get Kiké out of the leadoff spot" thing sure turned out to be wishing on a monkey's paw...
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 23, 2021 16:37:58 GMT -5
“Cora takes a good hard look at a few things that need to really be cleaned up so we can keep and enlarge the lead. Santana - time to say goodbye. Clean up the infield D and the baserunning.” — I’d start by DFAing Santana today, and bringing up Arauz to play second until Arroyo is healthy enough to play. Next, I’d call up Franchy and DFA Marwin. Finally, likely post-All Star Game, I’d promote Duran and send down Arauz at that point. You heard it here first. I don't see Marwin Gonzalez going anywhere. Not that I think he's much of a major league player anymore, but at least he can switch hit (not that he hits from either side) or he can play multiple positions and Cora seems to like him for the clubhouse. Marwin isn't going to be DFA. I'm just hoping that his name doesn't get penciled into the lineup too often. I could see Duran coming up at some point with Santana being the casualty but it's just as possible it's Yacksel Rios' spot that Duran takes on the roster. Rios will be a DFA when a fresh arm is needed, and I see the RS staying with a 14 man pitching staff, because the rotation is only 5+ innings in most games (if that). Duran will eventually come up (he hit his 13th HR today and OPS is back over 1.000, so i donot know what else he needs to do). Maybe Duran comes up when there is an injury, but he will take most of Santana’s playing time. |
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Post by Guidas on Jun 23, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -5
Facing a lefty, where Kiké is indisputably a better leadoff option than Santana. That whole "get Kiké out of the leadoff spot" thing sure turned out to be wishing on a monkey's paw... Anyone on the team is better against a lefty…or a righty than Santana. Including the pitchers. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 23, 2021 16:53:11 GMT -5
A good sports day so far - the Celtics new coach choice seems like a great fit. Let's top the day off with another win tonight. Feeling optimistic!
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 23, 2021 17:07:09 GMT -5
In 2020 the Red Sox were 20-20 against teams other than the Rays and Yankees. Against those two teams the RS were 4-16. In 2021 the Red Sox are currently 7-0 against the Rays and Yankees! That is quite a change of fortunes......
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