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6/28-7/1 Red Sox vs. Royals Series Thread
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 30, 2021 11:04:38 GMT -5
Bloom picks rabbits from the same hat they use down in Tampa. Apparently there's enough talent to mine. You just have to know where the seams are.
Add: Whitlock was a known quantity. He was written up as the best available Rule 5 candidate, but a team had to have a high enough pick to get him. The Sox were bad enough last season to "merit" such a pick. You're right. It's worked out better than anyone could have imagined. Those players are typically question marks, guys you hope can contribute just enough that you'll consider keeping them around. That's not him. He's an important part of the team right now.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 11:08:53 GMT -5
As Guidas says, "GREAT WIN!" Two game lead. Best record in the AL. Second best record in all of baseball. 25 home wins - it seems we are not a great home team, but only 2 teams have a better home record in the AL. Did ANYONE here see this coming? What a first half... Never saw it coming. Thought they might win 87-88 games and compete for a wild card on the optimistic side of things. I figured 2022 was their year to really contend with more dead salary off the books and more of their better prospects ready to help. Looks like they’ve arrived a year early. They DO need some help with starting pitching, though. Their model of having five #3-4 starters won’t play as well in the postseason. I thought they would win 93 based on a few things but who could have ever predicted this pen would come out and be a big reason for it. I remember KC with less of a team being carried to 2 WS. Keep them fresh and keep rotating the back end, it seems like it is one of those contagious things. They are feeding off the great vibe and it is great to see. The whole team with the laundry ride and all is loose and having fun.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Jun 30, 2021 11:28:06 GMT -5
Good stuff from the pen and Yacksel Rios in particular How about that pen!! It has been carrying this team. There have been concerns of overuse but as of now they are 9th in the AL in usage so they aren't the only team fighting that battle. I don’t think peoples mindsets have adjusted to how pitching is used these days in re: to bullpen usage. Sox seem like they’re burning out their pen but they really aren’t. Starters just don’t give you what they used to, and that’s league-wide
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 11:44:57 GMT -5
How about that pen!! It has been carrying this team. There have been concerns of overuse but as of now they are 9th in the AL in usage so they aren't the only team fighting that battle. I don’t think peoples mindsets have adjusted to how pitching is used these days in re: to bullpen usage. Sox seem like they’re burning out their pen but they really aren’t. Starters just don’t give you what they used to, and that’s league-wide The game is moving in the direction of piggybacks basically. Used to be the mop up guys were middle inning guys, now those guys are huge. If a team has a few guys who could be considered a depth arm or 5th guy then they have an advantage. It originated in TB so you would expect it here. Myself I am in favor of it and think that it makes sense as few guys get thru a lineup successfully 3 times these days.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2021 11:54:36 GMT -5
I don’t think peoples mindsets have adjusted to how pitching is used these days in re: to bullpen usage. Sox seem like they’re burning out their pen but they really aren’t. Starters just don’t give you what they used to, and that’s league-wide The game is moving in the direction of piggybacks basically. Used to be the mop up guys were middle inning guys, now those guys are huge. If a team has a few guys who could be considered a depth arm or 5th guy then they have an advantage. It originated in TB so you would expect it here. Myself I am in favor of it and think that it makes sense as few guys get thru a lineup successfully 3 times these days. I think Bloom is hoping for Richards to get his act together enough to be viable as a starter until Sale is ready. Either that or have Richards figure things out and Sale takes the place of any pitcher who winds on the IL (hoping that doesn't happen). I'm guessing that if Richards can't get his act together by the all-star break and Sale still won't be ready at that point, the idea is to slide Houck into Richards' spot. But I think the overwhelming preference would be for Richards to at least be viable and for Houck to become one of the piggyback relievers you mentioned. Whitlock was and apparently is still in that role, pitching twice per week, about 2 innings per clip. I was surprised to see him pitch twice in three days, but I'm almost convince that they did that to simply shove it up the Yankees' butts and sink into them that they gave him away and that he's going to help bury them. They asked Cora about it but he said the plan is to keep Whitlock in the twice per week longer relief role. They have an opening for somebody to complement Whitlock. Earlier in the year it was Andriese, but he's been awful since May and Cora won't use him unless they're losing, so maybe THAT is were they want Houck to fit in - to be the other guy when Whitlock isn't available who can come into a competitive game in the 6th and hold the line for two innings - serve as a piggyback reliever. At this point they must be resigned to the fact that they only guy who can give them 7 innings every now and then is Eovaldi. I'm sure they hope E-Rod gets there, but the rest of the rotation is built to give them 5 innings/start or maybe 6 if they're doing well. So if they have Houck and Whitlock to piggback to their other high leverage relievers, Sawamura, Darwinzon, Taylor, Ottavino and Barnes, I'd say they have their pen set exactly how they want it and they can take the pressure off of those guys and keep them (Sawamura or Hernandez) from having to come in prior to the 7th inning.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 12:04:12 GMT -5
I hope the Sox go out and get someone who is an upgrade in the rotation, along with Sale coming back that would move everyone back a slot. Then by building depth at the top you build depth on the back end.
Can Richards survive as a 2 inning guy? He has a lot of work to do.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 30, 2021 12:22:58 GMT -5
I hope the Sox go out and get someone who is an upgrade in the rotation, along with Sale coming back that would move everyone back a slot. Then by building depth at the top you build depth on the back end. Can Richards survive as a 2 inning guy? He has a lot of work to do. 'Tis almost the season for a trade deadline thread, no? I think the starting rotation is the obvious place for an upgrade. Sale/Eovaldi/Rodriguez is a good start for a playoff rotation, but Sale's innings might still be limited and I think they really need one more solid starter.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 30, 2021 12:40:04 GMT -5
Bloom picks rabbits from the same hat they use down in Tampa. Apparently there's enough talent to mine. You just have to know where the seams are. Add: Whitlock was a known quantity. He was written up as the best available Rule 5 candidate, but a team had to have a high enough pick to get him. The Sox were bad enough last season to "merit" such a pick. You're right. It's worked out better than anyone could have imagined. Those players are typically question marks, guys you hope can contribute just enough that you'll consider keeping them around. That's not him. He's an important part of the team right now. Fair point, but if you redid the Rule 5 draft today I don't think there's a question Whitlock goes number 1. 1) Pirates: Jose Soriano, RHP - TJS 2) Rangers: Brett de Geus, RHP - Got claimed on waivers this week. 3) Tigers: Akil Baddoo, OF - Has had a good year but after his insane first 9 games, he's hitting "just" .250/.361/.386 (his first 9 games were good enough that his season line is still .269/.364/.479, which is kind of bonkers). 4) Red Sox: Garrett Whitlock, RHP (Yankees) 5) Orioles: Mac Sceroler, RHP (Reds) - Returned this week. 6) D-backs: Zach Pop, RHP (Orioles) - Traded to Marlins. Meh. 7) Rockies: Jordan Sheffield, RHP (Dodgers) - Has been good out of the bullpen. 8) Angels: Jose Rivera, RHP (Astros No. 14) - Returned in March. 9) Mets: Luis Oviedo, RHP (Indians No. 25) - has been bad 10) Mariners: Will Vest, RHP (Tigers) - Has been bad. 11) Phillies: Kyle Holder, SS (Yankees) - I think they've been messing around with him on IL. He's been bad in AAA. 12) Giants: Dedniel Nunez, RHP (Mets No. 18) - TJS 13) Marlins: Paul Campbell, RHP (Rays No. 24) - 80 game PED suspension. 14) Cubs: Gray Fenter, RHP (Orioles) - Returned in March. 15) Indians: Trevor Stephan, RHP (Yankees No. 24) - Has been decent 16) A's: Ka'ai Tom, CF (Indians) - Waived/claimed in April. Hasn't been great. Round 2 17) Orioles: Tyler Wells, RHP (Twins) - Has been really good actually and probably goes top 5? 18) A's: Dany Jimenez, RHP (Blue Jays) - Returned in March. So it probably goes like, Whitlock, Baddoo, Sheffield, Wells if they did it again today?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 30, 2021 12:52:44 GMT -5
That sounds about right. I was surprised that Whitlock was not the first pick, but glad the Sox were picking 4th and ready to scoop him up.
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 13:54:25 GMT -5
I hope the Sox go out and get someone who is an upgrade in the rotation, along with Sale coming back that would move everyone back a slot. Then by building depth at the top you build depth on the back end. Can Richards survive as a 2 inning guy? He has a lot of work to do. 'Tis almost the season for a trade deadline thread, no? I think the starting rotation is the obvious place for an upgrade. Sale/Eovaldi/Rodriguez is a good start for a playoff rotation, but Sale's innings might still be limited and I think they really need one more solid starter. I’m not sure what Arizona has to trade in the way of pitching, but I’m already having visions of Chavis in a D-backs uniform come August.
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 13:55:38 GMT -5
Marcus Wilson is probably a strong trade candidate, too. He’s looking like a guy who deserves a shot, and it doesn’t seem likely that he’ll get that shot with the Sox.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 14:02:14 GMT -5
'Tis almost the season for a trade deadline thread, no? I think the starting rotation is the obvious place for an upgrade. Sale/Eovaldi/Rodriguez is a good start for a playoff rotation, but Sale's innings might still be limited and I think they really need one more solid starter. I’m not sure what Arizona has to trade in the way of pitching, but I’m already having visions of Chavis in a D-backs uniform come August. Kyle Gibson is who I am pushing, Texas is out of it. He is having a career season and signed thru next yr for 9 Mil, has been an ace all season. It wouldn't be cheap but someone is going to get him. 4.2 war on the season already and doesn't seem effected by the spin rate stuff.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 14:05:25 GMT -5
Marcus Wilson is probably a strong trade candidate, too. He’s looking like a guy who deserves a shot, and it doesn’t seem likely that he’ll get that shot with the Sox. Exactly, he is the type of second tier ML OFer that wouldn't get a great chance in Boston but could excel for a KC or Texas.
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 14:10:23 GMT -5
I’m not sure what Arizona has to trade in the way of pitching, but I’m already having visions of Chavis in a D-backs uniform come August. Kyle Gibson is who I am pushing, Texas is out of it. He is having a career season and signed thru next yr for 9 Mil, has been an ace all season. It wouldn't be cheap but someone is going to get him. 4.2 war on the season already and doesn't seem effected by the spin rate stuff. Wow. He’s leading the league in ERA. I had no idea. Great move if they can get him for the right price(and fit him in under the luxury tax).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2021 14:18:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox did very little at the deadline in order to stay under the luxury tax line. I can see them trading a Marcus Wilson or Michael Chavis or anybody else to thin the 40 man roster for guys to improve the farm system, rather than the big club.
If they do get somebody for the big league club maybe it's another take a flier reliever. I only see them getting a LH hitting 1b if Franchy can't handle the conversion but I think the Sox are going to make every effort to make this work, given that they do have Renfroe (who is doing his best Tim Salmon imitation) locked up for the next few years and between him, Duran, and Verdugo, they really don't have a need for Franchy in the outfield unless Renfroe struggles or there's an injury.
I think the Sox think they have what they need in the farm system or coming off the DL. They have Sale coming back, Arroyo coming back, possibly Brasier coming back for the end of the season, Houck coming up in July, Duran, perhaps coming up in August after the Olympics. I think they have something that they think can work.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 14:51:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox did very little at the deadline in order to stay under the luxury tax line. I can see them trading a Marcus Wilson or Michael Chavis or anybody else to thin the 40 man roster for guys to improve the farm system, rather than the big club. If they do get somebody for the big league club maybe it's another take a flier reliever. I only see them getting a LH hitting 1b if Franchy can't handle the conversion but I think the Sox are going to make every effort to make this work, given that they do have Renfroe (who is doing his best Tim Salmon imitation) locked up for the next few years and between him, Duran, and Verdugo, they really don't have a need for Franchy in the outfield unless Renfroe struggles or there's an injury. I think the Sox think they have what they need in the farm system or coming off the DL. They have Sale coming back, Arroyo coming back, possibly Brasier coming back for the end of the season, Houck coming up in July, Duran, perhaps coming up in August after the Olympics. I think they have something that they think can work. If the Sox keep playing the way they have so far and are in a position to win it all with some moves their is no way they should be worried about the cap. With the second best record right now it would be negligent to not go for it if they keep winning. They don't have enough high end pitching to win a WS, but they could.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 30, 2021 15:07:44 GMT -5
'Tis almost the season for a trade deadline thread, no? I think the starting rotation is the obvious place for an upgrade. Sale/Eovaldi/Rodriguez is a good start for a playoff rotation, but Sale's innings might still be limited and I think they really need one more solid starter. I’m not sure what Arizona has to trade in the way of pitching, but I’m already having visions of Chavis in a D-backs uniform come August. Don’t say “Arizona” in front of me unless you’re saying Ketel Marte. I’ve already offered Downs, Chavis and Winchowski or Bello for him. They haven’t returned my calls but I’m willing to throw in super prospect Nick Yorke if we’re close.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 30, 2021 15:10:42 GMT -5
Dalbec’s been hot. So let’s sit him…
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2021 15:22:51 GMT -5
Dalbec’s been hot. So let’s sit him… With a lefty on the mound no less...
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 15:30:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox did very little at the deadline in order to stay under the luxury tax line. I can see them trading a Marcus Wilson or Michael Chavis or anybody else to thin the 40 man roster for guys to improve the farm system, rather than the big club. If they do get somebody for the big league club maybe it's another take a flier reliever. I only see them getting a LH hitting 1b if Franchy can't handle the conversion but I think the Sox are going to make every effort to make this work, given that they do have Renfroe (who is doing his best Tim Salmon imitation) locked up for the next few years and between him, Duran, and Verdugo, they really don't have a need for Franchy in the outfield unless Renfroe struggles or there's an injury. I think the Sox think they have what they need in the farm system or coming off the DL. They have Sale coming back, Arroyo coming back, possibly Brasier coming back for the end of the season, Houck coming up in July, Duran, perhaps coming up in August after the Olympics. I think they have something that they think can work. Has Franchy even been playing 1B? I just see LF and DH for him recently.
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 15:33:03 GMT -5
I’m not sure what Arizona has to trade in the way of pitching, but I’m already having visions of Chavis in a D-backs uniform come August. Don’t say “Arizona” in front of me unless you’re saying Ketel Marte. I’ve already offered Downs, Chavis and Winchowski or Bello for him. They haven’t returned my calls but I’m willing to throw in super prospect Nick Yorke if we’re close. Ketel can’t seem to stay healthy. That concerns me. I also think Downs is legit and not the guy you want to trade away.
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 15:34:09 GMT -5
Dalbec’s been hot. So let’s sit him… With a lefty on the mound no less... Dalbec wasn’t feeling so hot last night. He must still not be 100%? Don’t worry, Chavis will strike out 3 times tonight instead of Dalbec.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2021 16:37:52 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox did very little at the deadline in order to stay under the luxury tax line. I can see them trading a Marcus Wilson or Michael Chavis or anybody else to thin the 40 man roster for guys to improve the farm system, rather than the big club. If they do get somebody for the big league club maybe it's another take a flier reliever. I only see them getting a LH hitting 1b if Franchy can't handle the conversion but I think the Sox are going to make every effort to make this work, given that they do have Renfroe (who is doing his best Tim Salmon imitation) locked up for the next few years and between him, Duran, and Verdugo, they really don't have a need for Franchy in the outfield unless Renfroe struggles or there's an injury. I think the Sox think they have what they need in the farm system or coming off the DL. They have Sale coming back, Arroyo coming back, possibly Brasier coming back for the end of the season, Houck coming up in July, Duran, perhaps coming up in August after the Olympics. I think they have something that they think can work. Has Franchy even been playing 1B? I just see LF and DH for him recently. Check out the Franchy thread as there is a lengthy discussion going on about it. The Sox have been working him out at 1b in Worcester with the hopes that he can come up as a 1b/of and take some LH ABs at 1b, perhaps in a quasi-platoon with Dalbec. He was a former SS, so he does have experience in the infield.
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jimoh
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Posts: 4,111
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Post by jimoh on Jun 30, 2021 16:39:19 GMT -5
Bloom picks rabbits from the same hat they use down in Tampa. Apparently there's enough talent to mine. You just have to know where the seams are. Add: Whitlock was a known quantity. He was written up as the best available Rule 5 candidate, but a team had to have a high enough pick to get him. The Sox were bad enough last season to "merit" such a pick. You're right. It's worked out better than anyone could have imagined. Those players are typically question marks, guys you hope can contribute just enough that you'll consider keeping them around. That's not him. He's an important part of the team right now. Fair point, but if you redid the Rule 5 draft today I don't think there's a question Whitlock goes number 1. 1) Pirates: Jose Soriano, RHP - TJS 2) Rangers: Brett de Geus, RHP - Got claimed on waivers this week. 3) Tigers: Akil Baddoo, OF - Has had a good year but after his insane first 9 games, he's hitting "just" .250/.361/.386 (his first 9 games were good enough that his season line is still .269/.364/.479, which is kind of bonkers). 4) Red Sox: Garrett Whitlock, RHP (Yankees)[...] What you say about Whitlock is true, but imagine if you plug .269/.364/.479 or even .250/.361/.386 into the Red Sox outfield and leadoff spot this season. How many runs would they have scored?
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Post by benzinger on Jun 30, 2021 17:10:06 GMT -5
Has Franchy even been playing 1B? I just see LF and DH for him recently. Check out the Franchy thread as there is a lengthy discussion going on about it. The Sox have been working him out at 1b in Worcester with the hopes that he can come up as a 1b/of and take some LH ABs at 1b, perhaps in a quasi-platoon with Dalbec. He was a former SS, so he does have experience in the infield. That would be ideal. He could platoon with Dalbec instead of Renfroe(as was the original intent before the season started, I believe). I hope they get him some game action at 1B soon. The clock is ticking.
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