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8/10-8/12 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 10, 2021 6:39:40 GMT -5
8/10 Red Sox (LHP Eduardo Rodriguez, 8-6, 5.33, 104.2 IP, 131K:32BB) vs. Rays (RHP Luis Patino, 2-3, 4.42, 36.2 IP, 39K:12BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 8/11 Red Sox (RHP Nathan Eovaldi, 9-7, 4.07, 126.0 IP, 124K:24BB) vs. Rays (LHP Ryan Yarbrough, 6-4, 4.76, 119.0 IP, 98K:21BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 8/12 Red Sox (RHP Tanner Houck, 0-2, 2.45, 25.2 IP, 36K:7BB) vs. Rays (RHP Drew Rasmussen, 1-1, 4.15, 39.0 IP, 50K:19BB) 4:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI MLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsA note regarding moderating of the gameday threads in 2021: As the disclaimer has always said, in the past, we have been very liberal in moderating the Gameday threads. They're meant to be a lot less formal than other threads on the forum, so to moderate them the same way would be silly. However, we do ask posters to maintain a certain level of decorum in these threads, and we plan on moderating the Gameday threads a little more actively this season. In particular, we ask that posters refrain from being overly repetitive with their posts (if you've made your point, let it go), refrain from monopolizing the discussion (if you are making more than a couple posts in a row, you probably need to slow down a little bit), and of course, follow the Ground Rules ( link). The point is to make these threads worth participating in and fun for all posters, from our long-time fixtures to people just signing up today. -The Management
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 10, 2021 9:08:23 GMT -5
We got this.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 10, 2021 9:34:41 GMT -5
None of those pitching matchups are mismatches. When the Sox play well they can sweep this series. When they play like crap as they have, they could get swept.
The Sox need at least two of three and to really nip at Tampa in the division race they need to sweep. Hard to see them doing that at this point.
But the point I'm trying and failing to make is that none of those guys Tampa is throwing out there is unhittable although Patino might be at some point in the near future, just hopefully not tonight.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2021 9:47:09 GMT -5
Much better matchups than the Toronto series. Fangraphs odds implied 1.6 wins for the Red Sox in that 4-game series, and considering that series amounted to one blowout loss and three coin flips that turned out to be pretty accurate.
But they imply 1.7 wins in this 3-game series. Back at Fenway, the riff-raff is out of the starting rotation, the bats are waking up, the schedule is finally becoming a little more forgiving - it's a good time to go on a run.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 10, 2021 11:03:24 GMT -5
3 excellent pitching matchups for the Red Sox. 3 keys to the series; 1) E. Rod needs to set the tone in game one. 2) The heart of the Red Sox order needs to produce. 3) Bullpen needs to be efficient & shut down the Rays when called apon. Mondays day off was much needed for both the physical & mental health of this team. I see a sweep in the making. But, a sweep by the Rays, while not mathematically eliminating the Sox from the post season, would be devastating.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 10, 2021 12:13:54 GMT -5
Agreed, let's hope the offense builds off of what they did on Sunday, and it goes without saying that we really need ERod and Eovaldi to step up and give us strong performances in this series.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 13:09:49 GMT -5
About three weeks too late. This almost seems like a half-assed face-saving move aimed at fans after the trade deadline proved a success for all the AL East contenders except one:
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2021 13:38:10 GMT -5
About three weeks too late. This almost seems like a half-assed face-saving move aimed at fans after the trade deadline proved a success for all the AL East contenders except one: How were they supposed to do any of this three weeks ago? The "shakeup" described in the article is 1) Richards and Perez out of the rotation; 2) Dalbec maybe down to AAA; 3) Marwin maybe sayonara. But they needed Houck and Sale to be ready to make the changes to the rotation and they need Arroyo and Schwarber to be ready to take Dalbec's and Marwin's places. (Even if you think they absolutely needed to get Rizzo at the trade deadline they weren't getting him until 12 days ago, and of course Dalbec would be taking his place now anyway as Rizzo has predictably gotten covid.)
If they're making roster decisions based on fan sentiment, that would just be the height of incompetence (and I marvel again at what a low opinion some of you have of this team). Personally, I think the explanation for why they want to make these (fairly obvious) moves to improve the team is that these moves would (fairly obviously) improve the team.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 10, 2021 13:44:07 GMT -5
Yarbrough, On Covid IL
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 10, 2021 13:48:39 GMT -5
He's one Tampa pitcher the Red Sox hitters really know how to hit.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 10, 2021 13:52:59 GMT -5
Yea, I worry that they might actually be better off
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2021 13:58:41 GMT -5
About three weeks too late. This almost seems like a half-assed face-saving move aimed at fans after the trade deadline proved a success for all the AL East contenders except one: So you're saying that on roughly 7/20, with the team having lost 6 of 9, sure, but still 1.5 games up in the East and having just won the first game of what would turn into a 7-2 stretch, the Red Sox should have shaken up the roster? C'mon now dude. Like I get that the easy turning point that one can use is July 5, because that's the peak of the Red Sox lead in the division, but this isn't September 2011 we're talking about here. Hell, even Dan Shaughnessy just wrote "But the recent slump is nothing like the ghoulish stuff these eyes have seen over six-plus decades of Sox watching" in one of the most measured takes I've ever seen from him. ( www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/09/sports/this-red-sox-slump-is-simply-market-correction-by-team-that-had-been-overachieving/ for those interested) Have you considered that part of the plan at the deadline was to forego the seller-friendly prices teams were getting for rentals and then pivot to internal solutions if things didn't turn around?
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 10, 2021 14:06:05 GMT -5
TB Lineup
R Arozarena (R) RF N Cruz (R) DH W Franco (S) SS Y Díaz (R) 3B A Meadows (L) LF J Luplow (R) 1B M Margot (R) CF B Lowe (L) 2B M Zunino (R) C
Bos Lineup
K Hernández (R) 2B J Duran (L) CF X Bogaerts (R) SS R Devers (L) 3B J Martinez (R) LF K Plawecki (R) DH H Renfroe (R) RF C Vázquez (R) C F Cordero (L) 1B
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Post by patford on Aug 10, 2021 14:22:50 GMT -5
The next nine games should have a defining impact on what the Sox do for the rest of the year. While I agree with many that most of what is going on is a team which had been overachieving (and even stranger overachieving without any of it's players overachieving) returning to the mean, I also don't think the Yankees and Rays are good teams. So let's say the Sox go 7-2 including a sweep of either the Rays and the Yankees. At that point hope would be rekindled. Sale is coming back. Schwarber should be coming. If Rodriquez, Pivetta and a Houck combination with someone pitch like they have shown hints of maybe things would come together. I also think Richards might be pretty good out of the pen. His raw stuff is not bad and would play up in short stints. If, on the other hand, the team ends up not making up any ground and even loses ground I hope the decision is made to treat the end of the year like last season. That would mean sticking with Duran, Cordero and Dalbec and playing them almost ever day as well as being extremely cautious with Sale.
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Post by manfred on Aug 10, 2021 14:38:13 GMT -5
The next nine games should have a defining impact on what the Sox do for the rest of the year. While I agree with many that most of what is going on is a team which had been overachieving (and even stranger overachieving without any of it's players overachieving) returning to the mean, I also don't think the Yankees and Rays are good teams. So let's say the Sox go 7-2 including a sweep of either the Rays and the Yankees. At that point hope would be rekindled. Sale is coming back. Schwarber should be coming. If Rodriquez, Pivetta and a Houck combination with someone pitch like they have shown hints of maybe things would come together. I also think Richards might be pretty good out of the pen. His raw stuff is not bad and would play up in short stints. If, on the other hand, the team ends up not making up any ground and even loses ground I hope the decision is made to treat the end of the year like last season. That would mean sticking with Duran, Cordero and Dalbec and playing them almost ever day as well as being extremely cautious with Sale. Mostly agree. But I’d send Dalbec to the WooSox, see if he can put up Franchy-esque numbers, then see if he’s worth anything in the off-season. Come to think of it, I might do that with Franchy, too. I don’t see either being answers in Boston.
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Post by bcsox on Aug 10, 2021 14:48:44 GMT -5
Yarbrough to DL, assuming a righty starts, means a second game of Franchy at 1st, rather than two of Dalbec. difference is probably negligble. I cant wait for Tampa, in lieu of pitching Yarbrough to pull off a bullpen game and have 6 guys throw either 1 1/3 or 1 2/3 and beat us 2-1.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 10, 2021 14:53:02 GMT -5
The next nine games should have a defining impact on what the Sox do for the rest of the year. While I agree with many that most of what is going on is a team which had been overachieving (and even stranger overachieving without any of it's players overachieving) returning to the mean, I also don't think the Yankees and Rays are good teams. So let's say the Sox go 7-2 including a sweep of either the Rays and the Yankees. At that point hope would be rekindled. Sale is coming back. Schwarber should be coming. If Rodriquez, Pivetta and a Houck combination with someone pitch like they have shown hints of maybe things would come together. I also think Richards might be pretty good out of the pen. His raw stuff is not bad and would play up in short stints. If, on the other hand, the team ends up not making up any ground and even loses ground I hope the decision is made to treat the end of the year like last season. That would mean sticking with Duran, Cordero and Dalbec and playing them almost ever day as well as being extremely cautious with Sale. Mostly agree. But I’d send Dalbec to the WooSox, see if he can put up Franchy-esque numbers, then see if he’s worth anything in the off-season. Come to think of it, I might do that with Franchy, too. I don’t see either being answers in Boston. My guess is that Franchy rather than Dalbec could be dropped. Schwarber is a LH 1B. Dalbec hits LHP somewhat decently. He would make a better alternative to Franchy or any other struggling hitter (Marwin comes to mind) than Franchy against LHPs.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 10, 2021 15:03:18 GMT -5
Mostly agree. But I’d send Dalbec to the WooSox, see if he can put up Franchy-esque numbers, then see if he’s worth anything in the off-season. Come to think of it, I might do that with Franchy, too. I don’t see either being answers in Boston. My guess is that Franchy rather than Dalbec could be dropped. Schwarber is a LH 1B. Dalbec hits LHP somewhat decently. He would make a better alternative to Franchy or any other struggling hitter (Marwin comes to mind) than Franchy against LHPs. My guess is Franchy stays as an occasional OF/1b against RH, Marwin and Santana go. They could still play JD (although I don't love it) in the OF occasionally and have two LH bats at DH and 1B on top of Raffy and Verdugo against tough rh's.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 15:07:57 GMT -5
About three weeks too late. This almost seems like a half-assed face-saving move aimed at fans after the trade deadline proved a success for all the AL East contenders except one: So you're saying that on roughly 7/20, with the team having lost 6 of 9, sure, but still 1.5 games up in the East and having just won the first game of what would turn into a 7-2 stretch, the Red Sox should have shaken up the roster?C'mon now dude. Like I get that the easy turning point that one can use is July 5, because that's the peak of the Red Sox lead in the division, but this isn't September 2011 we're talking about here. Hell, even Dan Shaughnessy just wrote "But the recent slump is nothing like the ghoulish stuff these eyes have seen over six-plus decades of Sox watching" in one of the most measured takes I've ever seen from him. ( www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/09/sports/this-red-sox-slump-is-simply-market-correction-by-team-that-had-been-overachieving/ for those interested) Have you considered that part of the plan at the deadline was to forego the seller-friendly prices teams were getting for rentals and then pivot to internal solutions if things didn't turn around? Pretty much, yeah. Exactly on that date I started talking about it, in fact (and before that in late June I was saying they should bring up Duran, Franchy and Ort and give them 21 days so they can make informed decisions at the deadline.): theathletic.com/2716368/2021/07/20/chaim-bloom-on-how-he-approaches-the-trade-deadline-the-athletic-qa/Pretty good interview with Bloom on the deadline. He is not specific at all of course and won't even name what positions he's looking at, but expect more of the same that we saw in the offseason. No huge deals, but lots of options. The goal is still the same. To always be in the position they're in now in a sustainable way, year after year. Since the future cannot ever be predicted, especially in baseball, this is the only viable strategy. I trust Bloom completely at this point.
One thing I appreciated about Dombrowski was he wouldn't wait when he saw a need and the team was in contention. He went and got it rather than trying to time the market. I think the 40 man crunch opens up huge opportunities for the Sox to go get a couple players in positions of need who also have some control to them beyond this year. This doesn't exclude picking up a rental if it's the right guy at the right price.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 15:11:38 GMT -5
So you're saying that on roughly 7/20, with the team having lost 6 of 9, sure, but still 1.5 games up in the East and having just won the first game of what would turn into a 7-2 stretch, the Red Sox should have shaken up the roster?C'mon now dude. Like I get that the easy turning point that one can use is July 5, because that's the peak of the Red Sox lead in the division, but this isn't September 2011 we're talking about here. Hell, even Dan Shaughnessy just wrote "But the recent slump is nothing like the ghoulish stuff these eyes have seen over six-plus decades of Sox watching" in one of the most measured takes I've ever seen from him. ( www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/09/sports/this-red-sox-slump-is-simply-market-correction-by-team-that-had-been-overachieving/ for those interested) Have you considered that part of the plan at the deadline was to forego the seller-friendly prices teams were getting for rentals and then pivot to internal solutions if things didn't turn around? Pretty much, yeah. Exactly on that date I started talking about it, in fact (and before that in late June I was saying they should bring up Duran and Ort and give them 21 days so they can make informed decisions at the deadline.): One thing I appreciated about Dombrowski was he wouldn't wait when he saw a need and the team was in contention. He went and got it rather than trying to time the market. I think the 40 man crunch opens up huge opportunities for the Sox to go get a couple players in positions of need who also have some control to them beyond this year. This doesn't exclude picking up a rental if it's the right guy at the right price. And here's part of the other bit. So yeah, I've been consistent in my messaging and my cynicism regarding the Front Office: I hope Bloom doesn't forget that even the 2018 team needed a Steve Pierce to get over the top. And an over the top Steve Pierce at that. This team still needs a legit lead-off hitter as the pitching gets SO much better in the playoffs. I would prefer a move that has some control, but if we're moving sub top 10 prospects for a rental, that's fine. I still contend he needs to bring up/audition Franchy and Duran for the offense, and Ort in the pen before making any move. The latter two will involve 40 man moves, but Santana has become expendable, as has Workman.
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 10, 2021 15:17:56 GMT -5
Sweep this series to be 1GB right as you add Sale and Schwarber to the roster. How sweet would that be
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Post by patford on Aug 10, 2021 15:25:24 GMT -5
Mostly agree. But I’d send Dalbec to the WooSox, see if he can put up Franchy-esque numbers, then see if he’s worth anything in the off-season. Come to think of it, I might do that with Franchy, too. I don’t see either being answers in Boston. My guess is that Franchy rather than Dalbec could be dropped. Schwarber is a LH 1B. Dalbec hits LHP somewhat decently. He would make a better alternative to Franchy or any other struggling hitter (Marwin comes to mind) than Franchy against LHPs. I'm not ready to give up on Dalbec or Cordero. Haven't seen enough of Cordero and Dalbec is intriguing. Consider that supposedly Gallo is (I'm being sarcastic) a super star slugger and his average in identical to Dalbec's. We know Dalbec has Gallo type power which he hasn't tapped into. It's one of the season's bigger mysteries as he was not a type who had a lot of cheap HR. When he hit them they were bombs. I think a big problem for him is he's a rookie and a Red Sox. As such his strike zone was minuscule and the walks and accompanying BB which would have helped his OBP went to hell as he began chasing due to the knowledge that he was getting nothing from the home plate umpire. It is impossible to overestimate what a powerful position a home plate umpire is in. Short of Barry Bonds at his height they are the most important person on the field in every game. They can completely dictate the outcome of game. Dalbec has persevered with extreme dignity and given umpires no reason to not reward him with some respect. Not only does he not complain he does not even give the dirty looks which always plagued John Lester. In any case Dalbec has not yet entered my Chavis list where a guy has been given multiple looks and shows no improvement. And maybe I'm wrong but had Dalbec ever fit the "obvious hole" category or does he just either hit or not hit for no glaring reason?
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 10, 2021 15:27:01 GMT -5
Duran is 5 for his last 16 with a HR (7 days stats). Small sample size obviously, but encouraging. Still a 37% strikeout rate in that span, slightly down from 43% prior to that. Hopefully some adjustments are starting to pay off. We’ve seen him adjust quickly before.
Small sample size police please don’t kill me
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 10, 2021 15:29:29 GMT -5
My guess is that Franchy rather than Dalbec could be dropped. Schwarber is a LH 1B. Dalbec hits LHP somewhat decently. He would make a better alternative to Franchy or any other struggling hitter (Marwin comes to mind) than Franchy against LHPs. I'm not ready to give up on Dalbec or Cordero. Haven't seen enough of Cordero and Dalbec is intriguing. Consider that supposedly Gallo is (I'm being sarcastic) a super star slugger and his average in identical to Dalbec's. We know Dalbec has Gallo type power which he hasn't tapped into. It's one of the season's bigger mysteries as he was not a type who had a lot of cheap HR. When he hit them they were bombs. I think a big problem for him is he's a rookie and a Red Sox. As such his strike zone was minuscule and the walks and accompanying BB which would have helped his OBP went to hell as he began chasing due to the knowledge that he was getting nothing from the home plate umpire. It is impossible to overestimate what a powerful position a home plate umpire is in. Short of Barry Bonds at his height they are the most important person on the field in every game. They can completely dictate the outcome of game. Dalbec has persevered with extreme dignity and given umpires no reason to not reward him with some respect. Not only does he not complain he does not even give the dirty looks which always plagued John Lester. In any case Dalbec has not yet entered my Chavis list where a guy has been given multiple looks and shows no improvement. And maybe I'm wrong but had Dalbec ever fit the "obvious hole" category or does he just either hit or not hit for no glaring reason? I agree with your point about not giving up on them. Regarding the umpires squeezing him: I’ve seen him take or swing and miss at wayyyyyyy too many pitches down the middle to give him that
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Post by patford on Aug 10, 2021 15:30:43 GMT -5
Pretty much, yeah. Exactly on that date I started talking about it, in fact (and before that in late June I was saying they should bring up Duran and Ort and give them 21 days so they can make informed decisions at the deadline.): And here's part of the other bit. So yeah, I've been consistent in my messaging and my cynicism regarding the Front Office: I hope Bloom doesn't forget that even the 2018 team needed a Steve Pierce to get over the top. And an over the top Steve Pierce at that. This team still needs a legit lead-off hitter as the pitching gets SO much better in the playoffs. I would prefer a move that has some control, but if we're moving sub top 10 prospects for a rental, that's fine. I still contend he needs to bring up/audition Franchy and Duran for the offense, and Ort in the pen before making any move. The latter two will involve 40 man moves, but Santana has become expendable, as has Workman. Here's the thing. The selling teams were in gouge mode. The Yankees were in an out of their minds panic and the Dodgers have so much minor league depth they could pay crazy prices. I'm sure Bloome worked the phones and teams weren't interested in 24+ year old guys in the top 20 prospects. Teams wanted young high upside guys. From my perspective I'd have traded Duran rather than Ramirez. Maybe that was offered. Duran is 24. He sold out for power. His K rate exploded and his average took a big hit.
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