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8/24-8/26 Red Sox vs. Twins Thread
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Post by Guidas on Aug 25, 2021 6:24:35 GMT -5
Great win!
(pen’s a mess. but we knew that)
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 6:42:04 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night.
On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces.
I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season.
Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win.
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Post by patford on Aug 25, 2021 7:04:37 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night. On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces. I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season. Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win. Kiké almost certainly makes that catch. If management has any notion the team is still in the hunt Kiké needs to be in CF every day. CF and SS are the two most important defensive positions on the field and in Fenway I think it's easily CF. Verdugo has been outstanding in LF but he's just okay in CF.
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Post by jmei on Aug 25, 2021 7:14:17 GMT -5
Cora mentioned earlier that Schwarber might get a start at 1B in this series. If he does, a lineup of something like the below would be pretty great.
Hernandez CF Schwarber 1B Bogaerts SS Devers 3B Martinez DH Renfroe RF Verdugo LF Arroyo 2B Vasquez C
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 25, 2021 7:20:54 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night. On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces. I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season. Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win. edit: failed to enter a gif
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 25, 2021 7:27:28 GMT -5
Cora mentioned earlier that Schwarber might get a start at 1B in this series. If he does, a lineup of something like the below would be pretty great. Hernandez CF Schwarber 1B Bogaerts SS Devers 3B Martinez DH Renfroe RF Verdugo LF Arroyo 2B Vasquez C That is the best lineup they can put out right now. I remain hopeful but skeptical that Schwarber will play first. If he is healthy enough to play LF then you would think he could play first so the issue has to be competence rather than health. Even still the lineup above is better defensively at every position except possibly first which would seem to be a net positive even if Schwarber is marginal.
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art
Veteran
Posts: 382
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Post by art on Aug 25, 2021 7:50:34 GMT -5
Agree on Kimbrel. Foulk sure had his moment too, though. Dick Radatz, 1962-1964. None other like him. RIP, big guy. Hey, someone else remembers him too! Unfortunately those were otherwise very lousy teams.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 7:50:48 GMT -5
AL East trade(deadline) acquisitions by fWAR on their new team (small sample size yada yada yada)
Rays acquire DH Nelson Cruz from Twins 0.1 WAR .745 OPS
Blue Jays acquire P José Berríos from Twins 0.3 WAR 4.08 FIP
MFY acquire OF Joey Gallo and P Joely Rodríguez from Rangers 0.2 WAR .653 OPS + 0.2 WAR 2.45 FIP MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS MFY acquire P Andrew Heaney from Angels -0.3 WAR 6.87 FIP
Red Sox acquire OF/DH Kyle Schwarber from Nationals 0.2 WAR .994 OPS
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 25, 2021 7:54:00 GMT -5
Dick Radatz, 1962-1964. None other like him. RIP, big guy. Hey, someone else remembers him too! Unfortunately those were otherwise very lousy teams. Greatest Strat-O-Matic card ever. Haha, I'd pitch him 9 innings every game.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 25, 2021 7:58:07 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night. On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces. I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season. Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win. Hopefully Arroyo is healthy enough to play and Hernandez can return to CF, but i do not see that happening. JD will continue to DH meaning Schwarber will be in LF, and Verdugo will be in CF. On another note with JD’s BA under.300 and his OPS under .900, I see him not exercising his opt-out (no other team is paying him $19.35 million or more). Do the Red Sox trade him if they convince Schwarber to stay to be the DH (verdugo LF, Hernandez CF, Renfroe RF).
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Post by patford on Aug 25, 2021 8:02:41 GMT -5
Cora mentioned earlier that Schwarber might get a start at 1B in this series. If he does, a lineup of something like the below would be pretty great. Hernandez CF Schwarber 1B Bogaerts SS Devers 3B Martinez DH Renfroe RF Verdugo LF Arroyo 2B Vasquez C That is the best lineup they can put out right now. I remain hopeful but skeptical that Schwarber will play first. If he is healthy enough to play LF then you would think he could play first so the issue has to be competence rather than health. Even still the lineup above is better defensively at every position except possibly first which would seem to be a net positive even if Schwarber is marginal. Why do people think Schwarber can't play 1B? It seems like his ideal position. Isn't 1B the easiest position to play on the diamond? I mean when it became obvious Hanley couldn't play LF they moved him to 1B. Hanley was brutal in LF in 2015. In 2016 he played 133 games at 1B and had a .996 fielding percentage.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 25, 2021 8:04:51 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night. On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces. I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season. Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win. Hopefully Arroyo is healthy enough to play and Hernandez can return to CF, but i do not see that happening. JD will continue to DH meaning Schwarber will be in LF, and Verdugo will be in CF. On another note with JD’s BA under.300 and his OPS under .900, I see him not exercising his opt-out (no other team is paying him $19.35 million or more). Do the Red Sox trade him if they convince Schwarber to stay to be the DH (verdugo LF, Hernandez CF, Renfroe RF). I wouldn't be against trading JD but the question becomes who else would really want him, how much money would they have to eat and at what $ amount would it just make more sense not to keep him?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 25, 2021 8:19:44 GMT -5
Hopefully Arroyo is healthy enough to play and Hernandez can return to CF, but i do not see that happening. JD will continue to DH meaning Schwarber will be in LF, and Verdugo will be in CF. On another note with JD’s BA under.300 and his OPS under .900, I see him not exercising his opt-out (no other team is paying him $19.35 million or more). Do the Red Sox trade him if they convince Schwarber to stay to be the DH (verdugo LF, Hernandez CF, Renfroe RF). I wouldn't be against trading JD but the question becomes who else would really want him, how much money would they have to eat and at what $ amount would it just make more sense not to keep him? If Schwarber plays 1B, then everything is resolved and every stays, but with Hernandez in CF, the Red Sox need a 2B as Arroyo can not seem to stay off the DL
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Post by Guidas on Aug 25, 2021 8:28:34 GMT -5
With starter outings getting shorter and shorter, they really do need to fix the five inning win rule. If no one goes five innings, should let the scorer pick who picks up the W. And for these (BS Babe Ruth League) 7 inning double-headers, if 5 innings qualifies for a win in a 9 inning game then 4 (technically 3.8) innings should get one for a 7 inning game.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 25, 2021 8:29:02 GMT -5
That is the best lineup they can put out right now. I remain hopeful but skeptical that Schwarber will play first. If he is healthy enough to play LF then you would think he could play first so the issue has to be competence rather than health. Even still the lineup above is better defensively at every position except possibly first which would seem to be a net positive even if Schwarber is marginal. Why do people think Schwarber can't play 1B? It seems like his ideal position. Isn't 1B the easiest position to play on the diamond? I mean when it became obvious Hanley couldn't play LF they moved him to 1B. Hanley was brutal in LF in 2015. In 2016 he played 133 games at 1B and had a .996 fielding percentage. I am not trying to express a negative opinion, but rather read between the lines of what has transpired. The fact that he hasn't been put there is telling us something. Simple question, If Schwarber is healthy enough to play the OF and 1B is easy to learn, then why hasn't Schwarber played 1B to optimize the lineup? PS: I am not anti-Schwarber. Looks like he has a good approach at the plate and his bat is a welcome addition.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 25, 2021 9:00:25 GMT -5
Dick Radatz, 1962-1964. None other like him. RIP, big guy. Hey, someone else remembers him too! Unfortunately those were otherwise very lousy teams. I'll give a shoutout to the 1978, 1982, and 1983 version of Bob Stanley, extreme ground ball pitcher. This guy soaked up innings. He really wasn't a true closer although he did pile up 30 saves in 1983, but like Radatz he pitched a ton of innings in relief, and like Radatz he could pitch 7 innings in relief in a game. He actually pitched enough in 1982 to finish 2nd in the league in ERA as he pitched about 168 innings in relief if memory serves. And I think he had a 15-2 season in 1978 out of the pen as well. Of course he signed a big contract, and suddenly every groundball started to sneak through and they'd boo the hell out of him and yeah, I'd cringe when he entered the game, and of course even though he pitched reasonably well in the 1986 World Series picking up a 3 inning save in Game 2 of the World Series, he failed to get the out the Sox fans had waited for all of their lives and then didn't stop the bleeding in Game 7. They made a starter out of him the following year but he was terrible. Surprisingly in 1988 he was effective serving as a decent setup man for Lee Smith before having a terrible swan song in 1989 and after 13 years with only one team, he was hardly ever seen again around the Red Sox as he has worked as a minor league pitching coach for a bunch of organizations, but never the Sox. In a way his contributions remind me more of Mike Timlin and Matt Barnes, workhorse relievers who have had some wonderful ups and some tough downs.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 25, 2021 9:07:52 GMT -5
Hey, someone else remembers him too! Unfortunately those were otherwise very lousy teams. I'll give a shoutout to the 1977, 1982, and 1983 version of Bob Stanley, extreme ground ball pitcher. This guy soaked up innings. He really wasn't a true closer although he did pile up 30 saves in 1983, but like Radatz he pitched a ton of innings in relief, and like Radatz he could pitch 7 innings in relief in a game. He actually pitched enough in 1982 to finish 2nd in the league in ERA as he pitched about 168 innings in relief if memory serves. And I think he had a 15-2 season in 1977 out of the pen as well. Of course he signed a big contract, and suddenly every groundball started to sneak through and they'd boo the hell out of him and yeah, I'd cringe when he entered the game, and of course even though he pitched reasonably well in the 1986 World Series picking up a 3 inning save in Game 2 of the World Series, he failed to get the out the Sox fans had waited for all of their lives and then didn't stop the bleeding in Game 7. They made a starter out of him the following year but he was terrible. Surprisingly in 1988 he was effective serving as a decent setup man for Lee Smith before having a terrible swan song in 1989 and after 13 years with only one team, he was hardly ever seen again around the Red Sox as he has worked as a minor league pitching coach for a bunch of organizations, but never the Sox. In a way his contributions remind me more of Mike Timlin and Matt Barnes, workhorse relievers who have had some wonderful ups and some tough downs. The Stanley Steamer does not get enough credit. He routinely pitched 100+ innings as a reliever. Career 3.64 ERA, and he was a menace to any beach ball that crossed his path in the bullpen. No pitcher in the history of sports has wielded a rake with such authority.
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Post by manfred on Aug 25, 2021 9:10:40 GMT -5
I wonder if we may be approaching a renaissance of 100+ inning relievers? With the advent of “openers,” etc. and the huge success of guys like Whitlock, will we see guys who go long a few times a week consistently enough that they are not far behind now-diminishing starter innings?
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 25, 2021 9:13:58 GMT -5
It's been a while since I was an official scorer, albeit not for the MLB, but I was pretty sure that if the starter didn't go 5 innings that the scorer could at least choose which reliever got the win. It didn't have to be the one that relieved the starter.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 25, 2021 9:19:20 GMT -5
It's been a while since I was an official scorer, albeit not for the MLB, but I was pretty sure that if the starter didn't go 5 innings that the scorer could at least choose which reliever got the win. It didn't have to be the one that relieved the starter. That is correct. Scorer selects most effective reliever. I don't think the starter can be selected at that point even if they went 4.2 shutout and left for an injury or something like that.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 25, 2021 9:53:37 GMT -5
IMO Hernandez is the best CF (no offense to Verdugo and Duran), so I would keep him there.
For 2022
RF Renfroe CF Hernandez LF Verdugo 3B Devers SS Bogaerts C Vazquez / Plawecki DH Martinez ? Schwarber ? 1B ? (this year Shaw/Dalbec-how much patience) 2B ? Arroyo (when not on the DL)
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 25, 2021 9:56:12 GMT -5
Why do people think Schwarber can't play 1B? It seems like his ideal position. Isn't 1B the easiest position to play on the diamond? I mean when it became obvious Hanley couldn't play LF they moved him to 1B. Hanley was brutal in LF in 2015. In 2016 he played 133 games at 1B and had a .996 fielding percentage. I am not trying to express a negative opinion, but rather read between the lines of what has transpired. The fact that he hasn't been put there is telling us something. Simple question, If Schwarber is healthy enough to play the OF and 1B is easy to learn, then why hasn't Schwarber played 1B to optimize the lineup? PS: I am not anti-Schwarber. Looks like he has a good approach at the plate and his bat is a welcome addition. My only guess is that with 1st base comes other responsibilities - cut offs, pick offs (from pitcher and catcher), bunt plays, 3-6-3 double plays, flips to pitchers covering, positioning for taking throws (esp. from C), foul pops near dugout and short RF, footwork around the bag, not to mention the dark arts of the hidden ball tricks (fake return throws, etc.), and most important - chatting up/distracting opponents that have reached first.
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Post by patford on Aug 25, 2021 10:18:20 GMT -5
I am not trying to express a negative opinion, but rather read between the lines of what has transpired. The fact that he hasn't been put there is telling us something. Simple question, If Schwarber is healthy enough to play the OF and 1B is easy to learn, then why hasn't Schwarber played 1B to optimize the lineup? PS: I am not anti-Schwarber. Looks like he has a good approach at the plate and his bat is a welcome addition. My only guess is that with 1st base comes other responsibilities - cut offs, pick offs (from pitcher and catcher), bunt plays, 3-6-3 double plays, flips to pitchers covering, positioning for taking throws (esp. from C), foul pops near dugout and short RF, footwork around the bag, not to mention the dark arts of the hidden ball tricks (fake return throws, etc.), and most important - chatting up/distracting opponents that have reached first. I'm not thinking this moment but after getting his feet wet. In any case I think having Herandez in CF outweighs every other possibility. Also based on just a few games (look at the run down DP the other day) Schwarber seems to have a high baseball IQ. Keep in mind he was a catcher.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 10:18:41 GMT -5
They wanted to use Schwarber at 1B more than they are using him now...because Shaw fell into their lap. I don't think they were banking on adding a 1B via waiver claim, that just happend and they rolled with it.
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Post by manfred on Aug 25, 2021 10:34:51 GMT -5
They wanted to use Schwarber at 1B more than they are using him now...because Shaw fell into their lap. I don't think they were banking on adding a 1B via waiver claim, that just happend and they rolled with it. Yeah, for at least two days Shaw at first has looked like genius. Might as well go with it until it stops working. It is really Shaw moving in for Duran, which seems fine.
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