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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 25, 2021 10:35:04 GMT -5
It's been a while since I was an official scorer, albeit not for the MLB, but I was pretty sure that if the starter didn't go 5 innings that the scorer could at least choose which reliever got the win. It didn't have to be the one that relieved the starter. That is correct. Scorer selects most effective reliever. I don't think the starter can be selected at that point even if they went 4.2 shutout and left for an injury or something like that. That's correct, the starter is no longer eligible once if they come out before 5 innings: img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/atcjzj9j7wrgvsm8wnjq.pdf
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 25, 2021 10:38:26 GMT -5
You know - Nelson Cruz played first base yesterday for the Rays (no DH against Phils). First time in his career he has done that. I read that he routinely had taken infield (at 1B) a few times a week for the last 3 years. I love that! Why doesn't our current DH do this (maybe he does and I am not aware). JD is tall at 6-3 and has the perfect body type to be a 1st baseman (heck, we've had Brock Holt, generously listed at 5-10 play it). Does anyone know if the Red Sox ever approached JD about playing 1st? Just seems weird the the Sox traded for someone that has never played there, when they already had someone like that. Unless JD has told them he won't play there. We are paying him an awful lot for being just an offensive player. And now that seems to be slipping. Think about how much better our defensive options/flexibility could be if JD could be serviceable there.
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Post by arquimedezbozo on Aug 25, 2021 10:44:10 GMT -5
With starter outings getting shorter and shorter, they really do need to fix the five inning win rule. If no one goes five innings, should let the scorer pick who picks up the W. In my opinion, they should do it like the guy who pitches the most innings gets the W regardless of what happens in the game. The guy who gives up the most runs gets the L. I'll make my case: Imagine I pitch 8 innings of a perfect game. 0-0 game. Then I can't pitch in the 9th, Matt Barnes comes in, the other team promptly score 10 runs off him. Somehow the team comes back to win it in the bottom of the 9th. Matt Barnes gets the win. Conversely, I give you 7 strong and only run you score off me is a line drive to 1B that hits him in the shoulder, gets all the way high, tricks the right fielder who then DIES and can't make the throw home. Inside the park home run. Then Sawamura comes in and gives up 20 runs. I get the L despite leaving the team in a competitive place. Heh. I’m trying to imagine which of these mini scenario is is the most unlikely. Probably Sawamura, as AC would replace him with a position player somewhere short of 20, as that’s a LOT of walks/pitches? I think this very clearly illustrates several of the many reasons why the W has not been an important stat for many a moon.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 11:02:52 GMT -5
I think they still plan to play Schwarber at 1B, I believe during the game last night the booth said it could even come as soon as tomorrow. With Shaw around he won’t need to do it as much…until Shaw cools off at least
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 25, 2021 11:23:58 GMT -5
Pitcher wins aren't an important stat, some say.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 25, 2021 11:56:10 GMT -5
You know - Nelson Cruz played first base yesterday for the Rays (no DH against Phils). First time in his career he has done that. I read that he routinely had taken infield (at 1B) a few times a week for the last 3 years. I love that! Why doesn't our current DH do this (maybe he does and I am not aware). JD is tall at 6-3 and has the perfect body type to be a 1st baseman (heck, we've had Brock Holt, generously listed at 5-10 play it). Does anyone know if the Red Sox ever approached JD about playing 1st? Just seems weird the the Sox traded for someone that has never played there, when they already had someone like that. Unless JD has told them he won't play there. We are paying him an awful lot for being just an offensive player. And now that seems to be slipping. Think about how much better our defensive options/flexibility could be if JD could be serviceable there. The Red Sox needed a productive left handed bat and that is why the Red Sox got him.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2021 12:01:54 GMT -5
Cora mentioned earlier that Schwarber might get a start at 1B in this series. If he does, a lineup of something like the below would be pretty great. Hernandez CF Schwarber 1B Bogaerts SS Devers 3B Martinez DH Renfroe RF Verdugo LF Arroyo 2B Vasquez C I think that's their best defensive lineup, if Schwarber is close to passable at 1B (especially considering that Dalbec and, it appears, Shaw are no great shakes defensively). But...
Arroyo: .300 xwOBA Dalbec: .316 xwOBA
Arroyo has had some big hits and some BABIP luck, but it's not hard to imagine him going real cold.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 25, 2021 13:18:21 GMT -5
You know - Nelson Cruz played first base yesterday for the Rays (no DH against Phils). First time in his career he has done that. I read that he routinely had taken infield (at 1B) a few times a week for the last 3 years. I love that! Why doesn't our current DH do this (maybe he does and I am not aware). JD is tall at 6-3 and has the perfect body type to be a 1st baseman (heck, we've had Brock Holt, generously listed at 5-10 play it). Does anyone know if the Red Sox ever approached JD about playing 1st? Just seems weird the the Sox traded for someone that has never played there, when they already had someone like that. Unless JD has told them he won't play there. We are paying him an awful lot for being just an offensive player. And now that seems to be slipping. Think about how much better our defensive options/flexibility could be if JD could be serviceable there. The Red Sox needed a productive left handed bat and that is why the Red Sox got him. I get that (the need for a LH bat). I guess my main emphasis is why JD hasn't been a destined for 1st base candidate since he signed with us? Is he not willing, do the Sox think it is beyond his athleticism, or is his only skillset the ability to swing a bat?
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 13:22:03 GMT -5
AL East trade(deadline) acquisitions by fWAR on their new team (small sample size yada yada yada) Rays acquire DH Nelson Cruz from Twins 0.1 WAR .745 OPS Blue Jays acquire P José Berríos from Twins 0.3 WAR 4.08 FIP MFY acquire OF Joey Gallo and P Joely Rodríguez from Rangers 0.2 WAR .653 OPS + 0.2 WAR 2.45 FIP MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS MFY acquire P Andrew Heaney from Angels -0.3 WAR 6.87 FIP Red Sox acquire OF/DH Kyle Schwarber from Nationals 0.2 WAR .994 OPS Oh by the way: MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS value 0.5M$ Red Sox claimed 3B Travis Shaw off waivers from Milwaukee 0.2 WAR 1.333 OPS value 1.3 M$ Shaw clearly has been TWICE as good...in his 9 PA They wanted to use Schwarber at 1B more than they are using him now...because Shaw fell into their lap. I don't think they were banking on adding a 1B via waiver claim, that just happend and they rolled with it. Yeah, for at least two days Shaw at first has looked like genius. Might as well go with it until it stops working. It is really Shaw moving in for Duran, which seems fine. Shaw must be psychic! To hit two glorious-clutch-nodoubt bombs in consecutive games with a swing as slow as his..I mean seriously watch the replays it is like watching slowmotion. He has to know what's coming! Clearly telepathic!!!
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2021 13:31:23 GMT -5
AL East trade(deadline) acquisitions by fWAR on their new team (small sample size yada yada yada) Rays acquire DH Nelson Cruz from Twins 0.1 WAR .745 OPS Blue Jays acquire P José Berríos from Twins 0.3 WAR 4.08 FIP MFY acquire OF Joey Gallo and P Joely Rodríguez from Rangers 0.2 WAR .653 OPS + 0.2 WAR 2.45 FIP MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS MFY acquire P Andrew Heaney from Angels -0.3 WAR 6.87 FIP Red Sox acquire OF/DH Kyle Schwarber from Nationals 0.2 WAR .994 OPS Granted, Gallo and Rizzo have put up 84 and 93 wRC+ respectively, but you have somehow overlooked THE major move of the trade deadline: Yankees adding Clay Holmes. He's been worth 0.3 WAR.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 13:38:47 GMT -5
True! I just went through the top something trades article on mlb.com. But figures...low key trade tied for the biggest impact
Robles 0.1 WAR 3.28 FIP Davis 0.1 WAR 1.85 FIP
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 13:40:57 GMT -5
AL East trade(deadline) acquisitions by fWAR on their new team (small sample size yada yada yada) Rays acquire DH Nelson Cruz from Twins 0.1 WAR .745 OPS Blue Jays acquire P José Berríos from Twins 0.3 WAR 4.08 FIP MFY acquire OF Joey Gallo and P Joely Rodríguez from Rangers 0.2 WAR .653 OPS + 0.2 WAR 2.45 FIP MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS MFY acquire P Andrew Heaney from Angels -0.3 WAR 6.87 FIP Red Sox acquire OF/DH Kyle Schwarber from Nationals 0.2 WAR .994 OPS I would do it if I know how but I don't. Could you run this stat on Kyle Gibson please and thank you.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 25, 2021 13:42:49 GMT -5
Now compare the FV of prospects given up in those trades.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 13:43:27 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the Sox OF play from last night. On the triple in the first inning that caromed off the wall in center and bounced towards RF, if Hunter was hustling over that way he probably would have kept that to a double. I hope someone pointed that out to him or he realized it on his own as Fenway creates those funny bounces. I think Verdugo makes that catch in center at the wall if he had played more center all season, he got turned around and didn't go to the direct spot. This is how a team gets penalized for not having a consistent OF lineup as Duggy hasn't really played a lot of center this season. Both plays cost runs and are the types of plays that need to be made in the playoffs or you don't win. edit: failed to enter a gif My technical skills are limited.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 13:49:02 GMT -5
I wonder if we may be approaching a renaissance of 100+ inning relievers? With the advent of “openers,” etc. and the huge success of guys like Whitlock, will we see guys who go long a few times a week consistently enough that they are not far behind now-diminishing starter innings? Been saying this for years and Bloom is a believer also.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 13:53:21 GMT -5
AL East trade(deadline) acquisitions by fWAR on their new team (small sample size yada yada yada) Rays acquire DH Nelson Cruz from Twins 0.1 WAR .745 OPS Blue Jays acquire P José Berríos from Twins 0.3 WAR 4.08 FIP MFY acquire OF Joey Gallo and P Joely Rodríguez from Rangers 0.2 WAR .653 OPS + 0.2 WAR 2.45 FIP MFY acquire 1B Anthony Rizzo from Cubs 0.1 WAR .691 OPS MFY acquire P Andrew Heaney from Angels -0.3 WAR 6.87 FIP Red Sox acquire OF/DH Kyle Schwarber from Nationals 0.2 WAR .994 OPS I would do it if I know how but I don't. Could you run this stat on Kyle Gibson please and thank you. www.fangraphs.com/players/kyle-gibson/10123/stats?position=PAll the way down to Value, click partial season 0.5 WAR I still believe he will implode Now compare the FV of prospects given up in those trades. I thought about it, but the only free FV resource I know is fangraphs and the "only" do a full ranking pre-season. Their FV are pretty distorted at this point in the season.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 13:59:15 GMT -5
You know - Nelson Cruz played first base yesterday for the Rays (no DH against Phils). First time in his career he has done that. I read that he routinely had taken infield (at 1B) a few times a week for the last 3 years. I love that! Why doesn't our current DH do this (maybe he does and I am not aware). JD is tall at 6-3 and has the perfect body type to be a 1st baseman (heck, we've had Brock Holt, generously listed at 5-10 play it). Does anyone know if the Red Sox ever approached JD about playing 1st? Just seems weird the the Sox traded for someone that has never played there, when they already had someone like that. Unless JD has told them he won't play there. We are paying him an awful lot for being just an offensive player. And now that seems to be slipping. Think about how much better our defensive options/flexibility could be if JD could be serviceable there. JD at first has been brought up by me and others before, why why hasn't he been working there for years??? Well just heard something today that kind of makes sense for him. He likes to analyze all his ABs during the game and he can't do that while playing the field so his DH #s are better when he isn't in the field. If he has a 900+OPS then we can't really complain much about his salary and the lack of flexibility he creates for Cora. So at what level of hitting is he not really worth it? 850... 800, I don't know. But when he is on he is one of the best hitters in baseball.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 25, 2021 14:03:34 GMT -5
You know - Nelson Cruz played first base yesterday for the Rays (no DH against Phils). First time in his career he has done that. I read that he routinely had taken infield (at 1B) a few times a week for the last 3 years. I love that! Why doesn't our current DH do this (maybe he does and I am not aware). JD is tall at 6-3 and has the perfect body type to be a 1st baseman (heck, we've had Brock Holt, generously listed at 5-10 play it). Does anyone know if the Red Sox ever approached JD about playing 1st? Just seems weird the the Sox traded for someone that has never played there, when they already had someone like that. Unless JD has told them he won't play there. We are paying him an awful lot for being just an offensive player. And now that seems to be slipping. Think about how much better our defensive options/flexibility could be if JD could be serviceable there. JD at first has been brought up by me and others before, why why hasn't he been working there for years??? Well just heard something today that kind of makes sense for him. He likes to analyze all his ABs during the game and he can't do that while playing the field so his DH #s are better when he isn't in the field. If he has a 900+OPS then we can't really complain much about his salary and the lack of flexibility he creates for Cora. So at what level of hitting is he not really worth it? 850... 800, I don't know. But when he is on he is one of the best hitters in baseball. You people aren't happy with the 1.000 SLG% 1B we have now?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 25, 2021 14:04:21 GMT -5
OPS+ of 238.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 14:10:28 GMT -5
Hernandez 4 Schwarber DH Bogaerts 6 Devers 5 Martinez 7 Verdugo 8 Renfroe 9 Shaw 3 Vazquez 2
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 25, 2021 14:10:57 GMT -5
I would do it if I know how but I don't. Could you run this stat on Kyle Gibson please and thank you. www.fangraphs.com/players/kyle-gibson/10123/stats?position=PAll the way down to Value, click partial season 0.5 WAR I still believe he will implode Now compare the FV of prospects given up in those trades. I thought about it, but the only free FV resource I know is fangraphs and the "only" do a full ranking pre-season. Their FV are pretty distorted at this point in the season. He could implode but hear me out as he was my pick for a July deal. 1. His value isn't regarded as being as high as he has performed because of his career stats so I get why you say he will implode. But it is for that very reason that you get him for a reasonable package of prospects based on what he has done this season. 2. There is a reason for his success as he changed his approach and added a pitch so he isn't the same pitcher he has always been. 3. He is signed for a reasonable amount for next year and if he continues to pitch at this level it is an absolute steal. So yeah everyone said he would implode but he hasn't and based on your #s he would have the best fwar of any deadline player this year. JS
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 25, 2021 14:15:25 GMT -5
Hernandez 4 Schwarber DH Bogaerts 6 Devers 5 Martinez 7 Verdugo 8 Renfroe 9 Shaw 3 Vazquez 2 I wouldn't mind JD being slipped down a bit until he sorts things out - bat him 7th - follow Devers with Renfroe, then Verdugo, then JD - but I doubt that would happen.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 25, 2021 14:18:22 GMT -5
I am itching to see the good outfield defense.
I'm starting to worry that Schwarber looks awful at first and this is just what they have to do to keep the big boppers in the lineup.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2021 15:01:00 GMT -5
I’m not worried about that, he’s not going to look worse than Dalbec and he’s coming off of an injury. They’re taking it slow and getting him work there on the side. They’ve been pretty transparent about their plans for him- they’re still saying he’s going to play 1B. Idk why people are trying to find some secret story there
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 25, 2021 15:17:27 GMT -5
www.fangraphs.com/players/kyle-gibson/10123/stats?position=PAll the way down to Value, click partial season 0.5 WAR I still believe he will implode I thought about it, but the only free FV resource I know is fangraphs and the "only" do a full ranking pre-season. Their FV are pretty distorted at this point in the season. He could implode but hear me out as he was my pick for a July deal. 1. His value isn't regarded as being as high as he has performed because of his career stats so I get why you say he will implode. But it is for that very reason that you get him for a reasonable package of prospects based on what he has done this season. 2. There is a reason for his success as he changed his approach and added a pitch so he isn't the same pitcher he has always been. 3. He is signed for a reasonable amount for next year and if he continues to pitch at this level it is an absolute steal. So yeah everyone said he would implode but he hasn't and based on your #s he would have the best fwar of any deadline player this year. JS Well since a trade did happen I will to the FV comparison, just for arguments sake... Kyle Gibson Ian Kennedy Hans Crouse P FV45 AA for Spencer Howard SP FV50 MLB Kevin Gowdy SP FV40 A+ Josh Gessner P FV35+ RK Now granted, I don't think DD overpaid in the trade, but lets have a look at what a similar package from the RS may have looked like: Tanner Houck FV45 MLB Josh Winckowski FV40 AA (by soxprospects) Bradley Blalock FV35+ blogs.fangraphs.com/phillies-attempt-to-address-pitching-problems-on-deadline-day/"his .267 BABIP allowed is a career-low, and his 9.9% HR/FB rate is the second-lowest mark for his career. He’s surely benefitted from good defense behind him, (...) fielders have produced eight Outs Above Average while Gibson is on the hill, the fifth-most of any pitcher. (...) only strikes out 20% of batters " Kennedy btw had a really nice season (0.4 WAR) but imploded after the trade (-0.4 WAR). That would have been a bit steep for half a season of Kennedy and 1.5 of Gibson.
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