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8/30-9/2 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 31, 2021 21:43:18 GMT -5
Well the next few days will certainly be interesting. Is anyone (perhaps besides Sale) going to show any leadership to fight through this? Maybe you can't win these remaining games against the Rays. But what I don't want to see is what's left of our regular starting lineup players basically packing it in. You are still in the hunt for the WC! I don't want to hear from anyone (players, manager, management, announcers, beat writers) any excuses about how unlucky this team was with the Covid-19 out break. Other teams got hit also. Including the MFYs. This team led a charmed existence during the first 100 or so games. So now it is up to the players that are left. You play hard and give a professional effort every game and you fight. Hold each other accountable for the stupid mistakes that are happening every game. Do that and let the chips fall where they may. Else, it's going to be a brutal final month, and it will go along way in determining who is on this team next year.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 31, 2021 22:24:37 GMT -5
Like the top comment said, it’s like a horror movie.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 31, 2021 22:53:42 GMT -5
I expect to see Brasier, Santana, and Wong within a few days, if not tomorrow.
The interesting question is who they add to the pen if they send Peacock back to Woo as seems very likely (as they did with Espinal). Brice and Feltman have the two best numbers. Note that all the COVID replacements that are added to the 40 man can be removed by essentially saying "I return you" three times. They can still do that with Munoz and Gonsalves as well.
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 31, 2021 23:05:36 GMT -5
I am ready to move on from JD - definitely on the decline, and has stranded legions of baserunners this season He’s not on the decline, he’s playing LF way to much!!!!!! His legs are not there. He’s a DH. If he was DH all season he would be hitting over .300. He’s hitting .284 with 24 Homers and 84 RBIs. If you think that’s easy to replace you need to wake up.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 1, 2021 0:38:04 GMT -5
Do you think we’ve sucked enough to get into a spot where we can claim Hand?
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Post by congusgambler33 on Sept 1, 2021 0:44:05 GMT -5
I am sorry, but JD has stated many times that he likes playing the outfield because it keeps him loose to be a better hitter. The consensus begs to differ, but that is his belief. Everyone is correct that Sch warber has caused using JD in left field a lot and i can point to a few games that were lost to his positioning in left field. I love what Schwarber has done for the Sox, but it brings us to this dilemma of what to do with JD next year. i feel that Schwarber is the perfect Dh for this team and like what JD has done for us in the past, but that is the past and it is time to move on.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 1, 2021 6:18:46 GMT -5
I hope Xander is okay. His health is the most important thing for him right now. Baseball is secondary. Can't have this guy end up in a hospital. Sox should monitor for a couple of weeks and bring him back slowly. Just because he has no symptoms right now does not mean that he won't. Same with all the rest of the Sox. The explosion of COVID cases should really make MLB think about pausing the season. They wont but I think everyone got too comfortable and forgot how deadly a virus that this can be. I hope they all get well.
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Post by jmei on Sept 1, 2021 6:31:07 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely.
Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 1, 2021 6:46:49 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. The silver lining here is that Oakland and Seattle aren't setting the world on fire and Toronto is a cluster. Although the way Boston is playing in theory they could fall behind both Oakland and Seattle in short order. 3.5 games ahead of Seattle given the Sox COVID woes is not that much of a gap. You also have to give the Mariners credit for pulling off an absolute ballsy move by trading their closer for Toro who looks like an absolute stud. Chapman is on fire for Oakland. You just look at the roster over the last 14 days or so and compare it to the actual production something doesn't add up. They're going to be without Xander probably until the middle of the month. If this team has any more positive tests they're in serious trouble.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 1, 2021 6:52:46 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. I agree, it’s just hard to be optimistic with them dropping like flies in a crucial situation
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2021 7:17:18 GMT -5
I am ready to move on from JD - definitely on the decline, and has stranded legions of baserunners this season He’s not on the decline, he’s playing LF way to much!!!!!! His legs are not there. He’s a DH. If he was DH all season he would be hitting over .300. He’s hitting .284 with 24 Homers and 84 RBIs. If you think that’s easy to replace you need to wake up. Glad to know someone here is smarter than both JD, and Cora
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2021 8:33:30 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. That's what concerns me. With X gone for awhile and I'm afraid of who else could be next, they're playing a skeleton crew out there. They might be able to get by against the mediocre teams/cellar dwellers, but they're playing Tampa, Chicago, and Seattle, good teams. Their season unraveled in 3 weeks. They went from 1st place no doubt post-season team to 3rd place, barely hanging on for the second wild card spot, and that 1 game margin is razor thin. There is no room for error any more. Oakland, Seattle, and Toronto are not world beaters, but the Sox can't get swept by Tampa (or lose 3 of 4), and then lose another 4 or 5 of 6 against Chicago and Seattle and then go 3-4 against other teams while they wait for everybody to come back while hoping they do lose any more significant talent. I wasn't as worried about some of their losses until Barnes and now X were affected. The Sox need Barnes to figure things out and this delays that process, so the bullpen might not get straightened out until Barnes gets squared away. I figure when Barnes is right the rest of the pen kind of falls into line, but when he struggles like he has, the bullpen hierarchy crumbles and what we've seen we get. Theoretically if they get their lineup intact, Barnes squared away and can use Houck in the pen, they can get their pen fixed (I like the idea of giving Seabold a chance to make starts), the Sox have the team with an ability to make up ground but time will be running out, and the Sox will still have to stop finding ways to beat themselves. Way too often they are their own worst enemies.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 1, 2021 8:36:19 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. This is all true but this team has a fatal flaw.
Everyone on the team, except for Enrique and Arroyo, is bad at defense. Even the bench players. This is a big problem with the current roster construction and it's not an easy fix.
[N.B. I don't count Vazquez as good at defense because all his value now is locked up in sitting on one knee and framing, which is about pitching, not fielding. His blocking is terrible, he's bad handling the ball on plays at the plate, and his arm is a distant memory.]
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2021 8:48:44 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. This is all true but this team has a fatal flaw.
Everyone on the team, except for Enrique and Arroyo, is bad at defense. Even the bench players. This is a big problem with the current roster construction and it's not an easy fix.
[N.B. I don't count Vazquez as good at defense because all his value now is locked up in sitting on one knee and framing, which is about pitching, not fielding. His blocking is terrible, he's bad handling the ball on plays at the plate, and his arm is a distant memory.]
You're right. The defense is awful and it isn't an easy fix. I mentioned in the other thread they could go with Schwarber at 1b and bring in a defensive specialist or simply trade Dalbec for a stop-gap 1b who plays much better defensively than Dalbec. In that vein, I think they could wind up exploring trades for Xander. You know the Rays would trade Xander if they were in that situation, a contract that in one year he can opt out that will earn him a contract he'll be overpaid in while his defense is already below average, is likely to get worse and necessitate a move to a position where you don't need him. I can't help but wonder if Xander gets dealt this offseason and Bloom thinks similarly to what they'd do in Tampa if they had X on their team a year away from the huge bucks while playing below average defense. I think the defense will be an area of focus for Bloom this offseason. It's a little like how Theo saw the 2004 team and said that defense will be their fatal flaw if they let it be and he traded Nomar for two gloves in Cabrera and Mientkiewicz.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2021 8:52:01 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. This is all true but this team has a fatal flaw.
Everyone on the team, except for Enrique and Arroyo, is bad at defense. Even the bench players. This is a big problem with the current roster construction and it's not an easy fix.
[N.B. I don't count Vazquez as good at defense because all his value now is locked up in sitting on one knee and framing, which is about pitching, not fielding. His blocking is terrible, he's bad handling the ball on plays at the plate, and his arm is a distant memory.]
I wouldn't call it a fatal flaw - it is a flaw, one of many - situational hitting/approach to hitting, defense, low inning starters, burned out and/or less than adequate pen, and maybe, a true vocal clubhouse leader (we are all spoiled having experienced Big Papi). It isn't fatal in that it is a good team, and entertaining team, a competitive team. It is fatal if our expectations are championship level. We have an excellent manager in Cora, we have talent - but we may not have THAT level of talent - yet.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 1, 2021 8:54:37 GMT -5
This is all true but this team has a fatal flaw.
Everyone on the team, except for Enrique and Arroyo, is bad at defense. Even the bench players. This is a big problem with the current roster construction and it's not an easy fix.
[N.B. I don't count Vazquez as good at defense because all his value now is locked up in sitting on one knee and framing, which is about pitching, not fielding. His blocking is terrible, he's bad handling the ball on plays at the plate, and his arm is a distant memory.]
You're right. The defense is awful and it isn't an easy fix. I mentioned in the other thread they could go with Schwarber at 1b and bring in a defensive specialist or simply trade Dalbec for a stop-gap 1b who plays much better defensively than Dalbec. In that vein, I think they could wind up exploring trades for Xander. You know the Rays would trade Xander if they were in that situation, a contract that in one year he can opt out that will earn him a contract he'll be overpaid in while his defense is already below average, is likely to get worse and necessitate a move to a position where you don't need him. I can't help but wonder if Xander gets dealt this offseason and Bloom thinks similarly to what they'd do in Tampa if they had X on their team a year away from the huge bucks while playing below average defense. I think the defense will be an area of focus for Bloom this offseason. It's a little like how Theo saw the 2004 team and said that defense will be their fatal flaw if they let it be and he traded Nomar for two gloves in Cabrera and Mientkiewicz. I was going to go back and mention July 31, 2004 but you did it for me...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 1, 2021 9:06:02 GMT -5
This is all true but this team has a fatal flaw.
Everyone on the team, except for Enrique and Arroyo, is bad at defense. Even the bench players. This is a big problem with the current roster construction and it's not an easy fix.
[N.B. I don't count Vazquez as good at defense because all his value now is locked up in sitting on one knee and framing, which is about pitching, not fielding. His blocking is terrible, he's bad handling the ball on plays at the plate, and his arm is a distant memory.]
I wouldn't call it a fatal flaw - it is a flaw, one of many - situational hitting/approach to hitting, defense, low inning starters, burned out and/or less than adequate pen, and maybe, a true vocal clubhouse leader (we are all spoiled having experienced Big Papi). It isn't fatal in that it is a good team, and entertaining team, a competitive team. It is fatal if our expectations are championship level. We have an excellent manager in Cora, we have talent - but we may not have THAT level of talent - yet. I would say it's fatal if it keeps the team from making the postseason. Of course if they don't make it, there will be a long list of contributing factors on the postmortem, with covid at the top, but defense should be up there.
They played good defense in the first half for the most part but there's a difference between playing good defense and being a good defensive team.
As an aside, I just looked up Andrelton Simmons's b-ref page to see how old he is (he'll be 32 on Saturday). He has a .277 SLG and a 59 OPS+ in 361 ABs and yet he has 1.2 WAR on the season. I don't know how they figure defense into WAR but that's pretty amazing.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2021 11:01:00 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but I still think this roster, when healthy, is a legitimate playoff team. The front of the rotation and the core of the lineup are as good as any AL team, and while the bullpen seems to have all regressed at once, Whitlock and Houck are still as good as it gets and guys like Barnes and Ottovino have enough track record that a bounceback is likely. Still one game up in the wild card, so just need to hold it together for a couple weeks and they’ve got a shot. The silver lining here is that Oakland and Seattle aren't setting the world on fire and Toronto is a cluster. Although the way Boston is playing in theory they could fall behind both Oakland and Seattle in short order. 3.5 games ahead of Seattle given the Sox COVID woes is not that much of a gap. You also have to give the Mariners credit for pulling off an absolute ballsy move by trading their closer for Toro who looks like an absolute stud. Chapman is on fire for Oakland. You just look at the roster over the last 14 days or so and compare it to the actual production something doesn't add up. They're going to be without Xander probably until the middle of the month. If this team has any more positive tests they're in serious trouble. Funnily enough, Seattle's Graveman trade was one where the team really did seem to feel betrayed by the front office for "giving up on them." (I guess it's just "ballsy" when another team does it...)
Toro has a 140 wRC+ and 1.0 fWAR with Seattle; Graveman has a 4.38 ERA/3.24 FIP and 0.2 WAR with Houston. Not necessarily a bad trade for Houston, who needed the bullpen depth, but it looks like a great one for Seattle.
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Post by manfred on Sept 1, 2021 11:33:13 GMT -5
Ugh.
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Post by vokuhila on Sept 1, 2021 11:36:09 GMT -5
The silver lining here is that Oakland and Seattle aren't setting the world on fire and Toronto is a cluster. Although the way Boston is playing in theory they could fall behind both Oakland and Seattle in short order. 3.5 games ahead of Seattle given the Sox COVID woes is not that much of a gap. You also have to give the Mariners credit for pulling off an absolute ballsy move by trading their closer for Toro who looks like an absolute stud. Chapman is on fire for Oakland. You just look at the roster over the last 14 days or so and compare it to the actual production something doesn't add up. They're going to be without Xander probably until the middle of the month. If this team has any more positive tests they're in serious trouble. Funnily enough, Seattle's Graveman trade was one where the team really did seem to feel betrayed by the front office for "giving up on them." (I guess it's just "ballsy" when another team does it...)
Toro has a 140 wRC+ and 1.0 fWAR with Seattle; Graveman has a 4.38 ERA/3.24 FIP and 0.2 WAR with Houston. Not necessarily a bad trade for Houston, who needed the bullpen depth, but it looks like a great one for Seattle. This is probably one of the more promintent clashes between the two sides of baseball in recent time. The cold emotionless business side and the personal and emotion-driven player side. From a business side this looks like pretty nifty move. Trading your walk-year closer for an everyday player under team control while still being competitive. And it even worked out, because Toro instantly performed. You can make a good case that this made the team better short and long term. The reception from players side was devastating. The team had trust issues toward management anyways (*cough* Kevin Mather *cough*). Gausman was a well like clubhouse leader, they just had their best win of the season (came back from 0-7 against the Astros) and then learned that management traded their closer to the team they just beat. Sometimes the two sides just speak different languages. Reminds me of this Pedro interview on why he didn't come back in 04.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2021 13:12:27 GMT -5
We need to get the COVID topic out of here now - some stuff is being posted that is making my blood boil - as a scientist who worked in Pharma for 25 years, misinformation is going to kill this discussion board - it is certainly going to make me stop visiting. Just stop it, please. The death of 650,000 people and counting is being belittled and shrouded in utter crap.
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Post by blizzards39 on Sept 1, 2021 13:43:03 GMT -5
When is Kiké eligible for return? And Arroyo? What are the SS options until then?
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Post by semsox on Sept 1, 2021 13:49:03 GMT -5
Not Munoz. Tested positive this morning. Over/under 0.5 more players to be positive before tonight's game?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2021 14:00:04 GMT -5
well, scratch Munoz. COVID positive.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 1, 2021 14:01:12 GMT -5
Aren't they supposed to start postponing games at some point?
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