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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2021 20:03:08 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm just as frustrated with him, or at least wondering why Plawecki only plays about once a month, but they're going to extend him, on top of his club option. i don't know. any surplus value, as far as WAR, has diminished capriciously. He is still cheap, but regressing. I think the FO knows that and may decide it is time to move on. Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. Ever since the Red Sox sat Saltalamachia for Ross in the 2013 World Series, they have realized that catcher defense is the only thing that matters. Imagine what Red Sox fans would be saying after watching Gary Sanchez as our starting catcher.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 30, 2021 20:04:29 GMT -5
It worked, but seriously. One wild pitch and a ball that bounces funny and that's 2 runs in.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 30, 2021 20:06:09 GMT -5
i don't know. any surplus value, as far as WAR, has diminished capriciously. He is still cheap, but regressing. I think the FO knows that and may decide it is time to move on. Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. that is fair. but i just saw a guy try to backhand a curveball in dirt on strike 3 that needlessly prolonged an inning and eventually led to a run that the pitcher should have never had scored against. Yes. that is just 1 play, but you really want this guy back next year ? Sometimes...the party just ends for the good of everybody.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 30, 2021 20:06:39 GMT -5
One thing pointed out by Joe and Will is that Tom Goodwin was replaced as first-base coach in the second inning.
It's pretty likely that Goodwin was at least a close contact of one of the many Sox who have tested positive and he was pulled off the field.
Fingers crossed that it doesn't continue to spread through the team...
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Post by taiwansox on Aug 30, 2021 20:06:53 GMT -5
Yan Gomes would be a great free agent pickup. Vazquez at $7M is a bit pricey, his arm isn’t as good as it was and his blocking has been trending towards Gary Sanchez. His game-calling isn’t an asset either (we forget about the Varitek days). That plus sloppy fundamentals make me think he’s less likely to reach any upside case… Just fantasizing here but I wonder if they're high enough on Connor Wong to go with him and Plawecki next season.
He's been hitting a lot better lately in Worcester and had everyone talking about his game-calling and defense in Spring Training and when he was called up.
Maybe this is where Chaim shows his penchant for replacing expensive veterans with league-minimum guys who are just as good.
Definitely I could see that and that basically frees up cash that could go to a reliever or a backend starter. My worry is that Wong has been slightly injury prone and isn’t proven workload-wise. Yan Gomes reminds me of late career Pudge Rodriguez in terms of playoff experience/leadership and solid all-around. Maybe not fair since Vazquez has had a tough workload, but he’s not cerebral enough for me as a catcher.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2021 20:07:08 GMT -5
Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. that is fair. but i just saw a guy try to backhand a curveball in dirt on strike 3 that needlessly prolonged an inning and eventually led to a run that the pitcher should have never had scored against. Yes. that is just 1 play, but you really want this guy back next year ? Sometimes...the party just ends for the good of everybody. There are very few perfect catchers that don't even allow wild pitches. Chances are that his replacement would be a lot worse.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2021 20:09:04 GMT -5
Hard to win a game like this when Schwarber and JD are being made to look this bad by a 21 year old pitcher. Just remarkable how Tampa finds these arms.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 30, 2021 20:09:14 GMT -5
It worked, but seriously. One wild pitch and a ball that bounces funny and that's 2 runs in. It is almost a daily occurrence. It might not have mattered in this case but the Catcher has got to get off his knee if he wants a chance to block those types of pitches.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 30, 2021 20:09:20 GMT -5
Is it too late to tank? Reverse standings anyone?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 30, 2021 20:09:45 GMT -5
i don't know. any surplus value, as far as WAR, has diminished capriciously. He is still cheap, but regressing. I think the FO knows that and may decide it is time to move on. Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. Ever since the Red Sox sat Saltalamachia for Ross in the 2013 World Series, they have realized that catcher defense is the only thing that matters. Imagine what Red Sox fans would be saying after watching Gary Sanchez as our starting catcher. I still hate the catchers on one knee. And get off my lawn with all those stats.
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Post by dangermike on Aug 30, 2021 20:10:01 GMT -5
can jd stop chasing low sliders
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2021 20:10:30 GMT -5
.380 xBA for Xander. This game is crap.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 30, 2021 20:10:35 GMT -5
that is fair. but i just saw a guy try to backhand a curveball in dirt on strike 3 that needlessly prolonged an inning and eventually led to a run that the pitcher should have never had scored against. Yes. that is just 1 play, but you really want this guy back next year ? Sometimes...the party just ends for the good of everybody. There are very few perfect catchers that don't even allow wild pitches. Chances are that his replacement would be a lot worse. I will end my take here...that wasn't a wild pitch, not even close. It was an egregious fundamental mistake made at an extremely inopportune time with a runner on base.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2021 20:11:18 GMT -5
Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. Ever since the Red Sox sat Saltalamachia for Ross in the 2013 World Series, they have realized that catcher defense is the only thing that matters. Imagine what Red Sox fans would be saying after watching Gary Sanchez as our starting catcher. I still hate the catchers on one knee. And get off my lawn with all those stats.
Also lists Barnes as second best reliever.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2021 20:12:09 GMT -5
There are very few perfect catchers that don't even allow wild pitches. Chances are that his replacement would be a lot worse. I will end my take here...that wasn't a wild pitch, not even close. It was an egregious fundamental mistake made at an extremely inopportune time with a runner on base. It bounced like 3 feet in front of the plate! lol
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 30, 2021 20:12:33 GMT -5
Sox 3/9 on hard hit balls. Rays 3/4. This game sucks
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Post by taiwansox on Aug 30, 2021 20:13:08 GMT -5
Clearly he has more value than you think. Teams do not just look at fangraphs and baseball-reference. Catcher WAR is not anywhere close to representative of value. that is fair. but i just saw a guy try to backhand a curveball in dirt on strike 3 that needlessly prolonged an inning and eventually led to a run that the pitcher should have never had scored against. Yes. that is just 1 play, but you really want this guy back next year ? Sometimes...the party just ends for the good of everybody. As a former pitcher, I just don’t like the small things. Like where he sets his glove up for off speed pitches or high fastballs, how he positions himself to block. And looking back to Varitek, you could actively see him reading swings in each AB which directly led to better pitch calling. And this list also has Barnes as the second best reliever in the league. Catcher metrics are definitely the hardest with all the variables around balls in the dirt, pitch selection, etc.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 30, 2021 20:13:43 GMT -5
Just fantasizing here but I wonder if they're high enough on Connor Wong to go with him and Plawecki next season.
He's been hitting a lot better lately in Worcester and had everyone talking about his game-calling and defense in Spring Training and when he was called up.
Maybe this is where Chaim shows his penchant for replacing expensive veterans with league-minimum guys who are just as good.
Definitely I could see that and that basically frees up cash that could go to a reliever or a backend starter. My worry is that Wong has been slightly injury prone and isn’t proven workload-wise. Yan Gomes reminds me of late career Pudge Rodriguez in terms of playoff experience/leadership and solid all-around. Maybe not fair since Vazquez has had a tough workload, but he’s not cerebral enough for me as a catcher. I don't know anything about Vazquez's cerebrum but if you replace him with Gomes, you're probably paying the same amount, so it doesn't make as much sense to me as promoting your AAA prospect.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2021 20:14:19 GMT -5
I would have to imagine that the poll was not done today regarding Barnes. And is everyone here smarter than everyone in MLB?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 30, 2021 20:14:33 GMT -5
I will end my take here...that wasn't a wild pitch, not even close. It was an egregious fundamental mistake made at an extremely inopportune time with a runner on base. It bounced like 3 feet in front of the plate! lol OK. nvm...there is a new technique being taught catchers. Close your eyes and take a backhand stab at it. LOL
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 30, 2021 20:15:08 GMT -5
Have to rename this team the Boston Chasers.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 30, 2021 20:15:58 GMT -5
Back to the game... What have you done for me lately, Bobby?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2021 20:18:04 GMT -5
Hmmm... Pivetta back in at nearly 100 pitches. First batter singles. Throwing hangers now.
OH NO - Robles warming up.
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Post by taiwansox on Aug 30, 2021 20:19:03 GMT -5
Definitely I could see that and that basically frees up cash that could go to a reliever or a backend starter. My worry is that Wong has been slightly injury prone and isn’t proven workload-wise. Yan Gomes reminds me of late career Pudge Rodriguez in terms of playoff experience/leadership and solid all-around. Maybe not fair since Vazquez has had a tough workload, but he’s not cerebral enough for me as a catcher. I don't know anything about Vazquez's cerebrum but if you replace him with Gomes, you're probably paying the same amount, so it doesn't make as much sense to me as promoting your AAA prospect. Totally agree, it’s just a trade-off for me. Probably get a 1 WAR upgrade with Gomes with the same money or a little more or save the $7M with the unknown in Wong that could leave them thin on depth. That said, we have strong depth in Double A so it might be worth the gamble.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2021 20:25:05 GMT -5
Zunino barely over the Mendoza line and that long at bat ended up with a walk. Why not start this inning with a fresh arm?
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