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9/24-9/26 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 24, 2021 11:21:05 GMT -5
Here's the thing: psychologically, even if you don't believe at all that the uniforms bring luck, if you know better than that, they still help.
First, the feeling that they bring luck still persists even if you rationally know that's nonsense. And they become connected in your brain to playing well, because that is what is happening. It's not actually superstition. It's using the yellow unis as a totem, a marker, of the fact that you're playing the game right. It's about comfort and easing anxiety via a fairly egregious reminder of the good streak you're on.
It's not true that correlation is causation. But we evolved to think or feel that it is true, because that usually is the case. And right now the team is exploiting that.
The problem is that once they lose in the Charlatan unis, which they will inevitably do unless they're the second coming of the '07 Rockies, it pops the balloon and they're more likely to lose the next game because now they're back in normal unis and the magic is gone.
The solution is to win tonight and then retire the jockey silks while they're still winning. I mean, I like them as a novelty but you can't wear them for an entire meaningful series with the MFYs...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 24, 2021 11:26:29 GMT -5
The real reason for the Yellow & Blue unis. Dear Lord, is that what video games are really like these days? No wonder I'm so nervous around teenagers.
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Post by Coreno on Sept 24, 2021 11:43:58 GMT -5
The real reason for the Yellow & Blue unis. Dear Lord, is that what video games are really like these days? No wonder I'm so nervous around teenagers.
These days..? This game is 25 years old.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 24, 2021 12:09:55 GMT -5
Dear Lord, is that what video games are really like these days? No wonder I'm so nervous around teenagers.
These days..? This game is 25 years old. Yeah, the animation seems pretty old.
I guess that explains why I've been so nervous around teenagers for so long...
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 24, 2021 12:13:10 GMT -5
I guess that explains why I've been so nervous around teenagers for so long... Games are like this these days: We're cool here bro.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Sept 24, 2021 13:17:09 GMT -5
So it's fair to say Jeter is a HOFer no matter where he would have played. Buuuuut, how many of his 5!? Gold Gloves does he win if he'd been in say, Milwaukee?
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Post by orion09 on Sept 24, 2021 13:17:23 GMT -5
Yeah, agree with your conclusion here. But I'd quibble on one point: Jeter isn't treated as an icon because he was on a bunch of championship teams; so was Bernie Williams, and he put up just as much WAR as Jeter from 1996 to 2000. Jeter is treated like an icon because of a bizarre media pathology and his own unctuous self-marketing. I get your point but the media isn't going to use WAR to figure out who gets the attention. Jeter came up during a World Series season, his rookie year, their first championship in 18 years. Bernie had already been on the team for 6 years at that point, so up comes Jeter and of course they win, so a lot of that got attributed to Jeter. Had Bernie Williams come up in 1996 and Jeter had already been playing, maybe it might have been reversed. Who knows. I think the image of the Yankees being a championship team versus not being one was cemented by Jeter's arrival that very year, the 1996 Rookie of the Year. So it was like this cause and effect the media saw which multiplied with each championship within that span and was punctuated by the 2009 championship. The Yankees are just another team. They get this kid rookie, all-American type of guy in Jeter, and suddenly they're world champions....so that became the easy narrative. They were also very different personalities. Bernie Williams was quiet and understated, Jeter relished the spotlight. You could call that narcissism or being born a star... I think they’re two sides of the same coin. When I was growing up, Jeter was everywhere, and not just because he was lionized by journalists - he was in commercials and video games too. It says a lot that he was Xander’s idol growing up, and I suspect that’s the case for a lot of his generation.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 13:40:07 GMT -5
So it's fair to say Jeter is a HOFer no matter where he would have played. Buuuuut, how many of his 5!? Gold Gloves does he win if he'd been in say, Milwaukee? True that. But didn't Palmeiro get a gold glove once even though he only played about 30 games at 1b that season? Didn't have anything to do with the Yankees. I doubt the voters voting on gold gloves were statistical analysts.
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Post by manfred on Sept 24, 2021 13:42:46 GMT -5
So it's fair to say Jeter is a HOFer no matter where he would have played. Buuuuut, how many of his 5!? Gold Gloves does he win if he'd been in say, Milwaukee? True that. But didn't Palmeiro get a gold glove once even though he only played about 30 games at 1b that season? Didn't have anything to do with the Yankees. I doubt the voters voting on gold gloves were statistical analysts. Gold Glove is the silliest award in baseball. It may or may not mean you are a good or great fielder. But… it then does contribute to HOF debates (for some, I mean)… which kinda creates a vicious circle.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 24, 2021 14:48:56 GMT -5
Two things. I have always wondered. We know Boyd had his issues, but if McNamara was a better manager, better communicator perhaps he could have rechanneled Boyd's disappointment about not getting the Game 7 start. Boyd should have been the first option out of the pen. Perhaps he would have finished off a 5-3 victory. He was rocked in the 1st inning of Game 3 giving up 4 1st inning runs but settled down after that. I would have taken my chances with a fully engaged Boyd. Too bad Cora wasn't the manager then. Of course he was only 11 years old. Clemens was one of my favorites growing up and if he used I believe it probably happened just before he left in 1996. He was tied with Cy Young for most Red Sox career wins and had the chance to come back and break the tie in 2007 but opted to take George's money and ironically cost himself a Red Sox world series ring. Perhaps his heart was with Boston but his wallet certainly wasn't and we know what his priority was. Start Oil Can. Let him go 3 or 4 innings. Then turn game over to Hurst 2 things: The Red Sox were NOT winning that game 7 after the Buckner fiasco in game 6. THAT ended the series. Also, managers didn’t really use their starters out of the bullpen back then the way they do now. That’s more of a modern strategy.
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Post by benzinger on Sept 24, 2021 14:54:59 GMT -5
He had just had a 7 WAR season! But of course they didn't have WAR back then so I guess people thought he was done because he went 10-13?
They did have ERA at least, though, and he was tied for the fourth-best in the AL...
The front office was, in the end, the only opinion that mattered ($10 million-4 years vs $24 million-3 years) that pretty much says they were ready to move on. That is like offering Jon Lester $70 million when the Cubs signed him for $145 million.....offer non-offer. Ugggh! We are STILL paying for that one as we ended up overpaying Price instead(paying him for another year after this) and it might have cost us Mookie, too. Not that I want anything to do with the contract Mookie eventually signed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 15:10:01 GMT -5
Start Oil Can. Let him go 3 or 4 innings. Then turn game over to Hurst 2 things: The Red Sox were NOT winning that game 7 after the Buckner fiasco in game 6. THAT ended the series. Also, managers didn’t really use their starters out of the bullpen back then the way they do now. That’s more of a modern strategy. Emotionally, I think you're right. I mean nobody's reaction to Game 6 was, "No problem....they'll just take it in 7". I mean we all KNEW they were going to lose. Still, logistically, they still had a 3-0 lead in Game 7 and they still scored 2 runs in the 8th. They needed 9 outs allowing 1 run or less and they did have Boyd and Clemens available. I mean, they turned to Schiraldi (and he gave up a HR to first batter he saw), Stanley, Sambito, Crawford, and another starter in Nipper (their worst starter of course). You're right that it wasn't that common but I think it did happen at times. I mean Joe Wood was the winning pitcher in relief for the 1912 Red Sox in the deciding game. Walter Johnson came on relief to help Washington win in 1924 and he helped them lose in 1925. Grover Cleveland Alexander had a huge relief stint in 1926. Harry Brecheen who started two games in the 1946 World Series came into relieve in Game 7 and got his 3rd win in the deciding game against the Red Sox. I'm sure I'm missing other games, but I believe Rick Wise pitched in relief in Game 6 of the 1975 World Series and got the win. I think Earl Weaver used some starters in the 9th in a losing cause. So it wasn't common, but it wasn't something that wasn't being done. Of course, John McNamara was as unimaginative as they come.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 24, 2021 15:19:04 GMT -5
Start Oil Can. Let him go 3 or 4 innings. Then turn game over to Hurst 2 things: The Red Sox were NOT winning that game 7 after the Buckner fiasco in game 6. THAT ended the series. Also, managers didn’t really use their starters out of the bullpen back then the way they do now. That’s more of a modern strategy. The Red Sox were destined to lose game 7 in 1986 in exactly the same way that they were destined to win game 7 in 1975. (I.e., they weren't.)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 15:31:10 GMT -5
2 things: The Red Sox were NOT winning that game 7 after the Buckner fiasco in game 6. THAT ended the series. Also, managers didn’t really use their starters out of the bullpen back then the way they do now. That’s more of a modern strategy. The Red Sox were destined to lose game 7 in 1986 in exactly the same way that they were destined to win game 7 in 1975. (I.e., they weren't.) No idea how old you are, but do you remember that 1986 Series well? The weight of the World Series championship wait was huge and when they blew it the way they did, I don't know of anybody who thought the Sox were going to win Game 7 1986. Were you the one saying, "No problem. They got this?" As it was the Sox lost Game 7 1975 in a very painful way. I'm sure a lot of people thought they might prevail given what happened in Game 6, but as Bill Lee, the starting pitcher in Game 7, wrote in his book, "The Wrong Stuff": "When we scored those three runs, the crowd went wild. But after we failed to score again, I could feel the paranoia creeping through the stands. It was as if everyone was thinking, Okay, how are we going to f*** this one up?" I get your point, but the fact of the matter is that when you go a long time without winning and go through a ton of heartache, you would not be as inclined to think it'll work out somehow. In this century with 4 championships in hand, that mindset is not as prevalent. There is a whole generation of Red Sox fans growing up that have no idea what it's like to wonder if you'll go your whole life without seeing the Sox win it all.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 24, 2021 15:46:59 GMT -5
True that. But didn't Palmeiro get a gold glove once even though he only played about 30 games at 1b that season? Didn't have anything to do with the Yankees. I doubt the voters voting on gold gloves were statistical analysts. Gold Glove is the silliest award in baseball. It may or may not mean you are a good or great fielder. But… it then does contribute to HOF debates (for some, I mean)… which kinda creates a vicious circle. It is silly because for the most part there is no true agreed upon metric. It's such a subjective award and there have been a ton of guys through the annuls of history who were thought of at the time to be glovesmiths, only to have advanced metrics drop them down a few pegs in the eyes of some.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Sept 24, 2021 15:47:22 GMT -5
Hmmmm indeed
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 15:50:13 GMT -5
I can't imagine the Sox want to wreck their defense by putting Schwarber at 1b and Dalbec at 2b. The last thing they need to be doing at this point is playing players out of position. They need to put their best defense in the field.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,483
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 24, 2021 15:51:23 GMT -5
The Red Sox were destined to lose game 7 in 1986 in exactly the same way that they were destined to win game 7 in 1975. (I.e., they weren't.) No idea how old you are, but do you remember that 1986 Series well? The weight of the World Series championship wait was huge and when they blew it the way they did, I don't know of anybody who thought the Sox were going to win Game 7 1986. Were you the one saying, "No problem. They got this?" As it was the Sox lost Game 7 1975 in a very painful way. I'm sure a lot of people thought they might prevail given what happened in Game 6, but as Bill Lee, the starting pitcher in Game 7, wrote in his book, "The Wrong Stuff": "When we scored those three runs, the crowd went wild. But after we failed to score again, I could feel the paranoia creeping through the stands. It was as if everyone was thinking, Okay, how are we going to f*** this one up?" I get your point, but the fact of the matter is that when you go a long time without winning and go through a ton of heartache, you would not be as inclined to think it'll work out somehow. In this century with 4 championships in hand, that mindset is not as prevalent. There is a whole generation of Red Sox fans growing up that have no idea what it's like to wonder if you'll go your whole life without seeing the Sox win it all. I was 7 in 86, I didn't go to school for a few days after the collapse, the family took it hard. For many years after 86 we as a family watched the VHS recordings we had of the series as a sort of penance. (I now know it to be a form of child abuse). 86 was essentially the personification of the book Charlotte's Web. I could name every player on that team, I had the pennant on my wall and the year book, and the entire topps set of the team. 86 cemented in me that failure is always an option and conversely 04 cemented in me that one could prevail over past failures.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 15:54:32 GMT -5
So this matchup at this venue, Cole vs Eovaldi at Fenway might very well be a preview of Oct 5th.
As much as I want this game, I'd want that one so much more!
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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 24, 2021 16:03:06 GMT -5
If i am correct Devers has good numbers vs Cole.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,207
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Post by radiohix on Sept 24, 2021 16:03:20 GMT -5
I can't imagine the Sox want to wreck their defense by putting Schwarber at 1b and Dalbec at 2b. The last thing they need to be doing at this point is playing players out of position. They need to put their best defense in the field. Fair enough but you also have to try to maximize your lineup offensive potential by *trying* to insert Dalbec’s bat in there. He’s taking grounders in there, if they secure a playoff spot before the season ends, why not give him a few innings at 2nd base and see what happens?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 24, 2021 16:12:40 GMT -5
Honestly this version of Dalbec’s offensive upgrade at 2B probably outweighs his defensive flaws and it lets you keep your ideal OF. With the shift being such a factor these days I don’t think it’ll hurt them as much as it seems.
To me it’s most important that they go Verdugo-Kikè-Renfroe.
Plus it possibly provides an opening for Dalbec going forward as a super utility guy of sorts.
I also don’t think Schwarber has been a total wreck. He hasn’t been good by any means but it honestly hasn’t been that much worse (if at all) than what Dalbec was providing in the first half. Now of course Bobby is looking much better over there, but if the first thing proved anything it’s we can survive having a bad defensive first basemen
Of course later in games where you have the lead you go to your more ideal alignment
I just don’t see how you can justify sitting JD, Schwarber, or Bobby in the playoffs right now.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 16:13:34 GMT -5
I can't imagine the Sox want to wreck their defense by putting Schwarber at 1b and Dalbec at 2b. The last thing they need to be doing at this point is playing players out of position. They need to put their best defense in the field. Fair enough but you also have to try to maximize your lineup offensive potential by *trying* to insert Dalbec’s bat in there. He’s taking grounders in there, if they secure a playoff spot before the season ends, why not give him a few innings at 2nd base and see what happens? I don't think a few innings trying this in garbage time would make me want to try this in a postseason game. I know there's some presidence for this, the 1968 Series when the Tigers moved CF Mickey Stanley to SS to replace. 130 hitting Ray Oyler and be able to use all 4 of their OF in the lineup (pre-DH), Al Kaline, Jim Northrup, Willie Horton, and Stanley. But I don't care to see the Sox try this.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2021 16:16:28 GMT -5
Honestly this version of Dalbec’s offensive upgrade at 2B probably outweighs his defensive flaws and it lets you keep your ideal OF. With the shift being such a factor these days I don’t think it’ll hurt them as much as it seems. To me it’s most important that they go Verdugo-Kikè-Renfroe. Plus it possibly provides an opening for Dalbec going forward as a super utility guy of sorts. I also don’t think Schwarber has been a total wreck. He hasn’t been good by any means but it honestly hasn’t been that much worse (if at all) than what Dalbec was providing in the first half. Now of course he’s looking much better over there, but if the first thing proved anything it’s we can survive having a bad defensive first basemen Of course later in games where you have the lead you go to your more ideal alignment Yeah, but I'd worry about 4 below average guys defensively in the infield. It's like having four Eduardo Nunezes in your infield. I guess I just am more convinced than ever of good team defense.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 24, 2021 16:33:14 GMT -5
Honestly this version of Dalbec’s offensive upgrade at 2B probably outweighs his defensive flaws and it lets you keep your ideal OF. With the shift being such a factor these days I don’t think it’ll hurt them as much as it seems. To me it’s most important that they go Verdugo-Kikè-Renfroe. Plus it possibly provides an opening for Dalbec going forward as a super utility guy of sorts. I also don’t think Schwarber has been a total wreck. He hasn’t been good by any means but it honestly hasn’t been that much worse (if at all) than what Dalbec was providing in the first half. Now of course he’s looking much better over there, but if the first thing proved anything it’s we can survive having a bad defensive first basemen Of course later in games where you have the lead you go to your more ideal alignment Yeah, but I'd worry about 4 below average guys defensively in the infield. It's like having four Eduardo Nunezes in your infield. I guess I just am more convinced than ever of good team defense. It’s definitely not pretty- they’ll have to slug to make it worthwhile. Which to be fair Devers-X-Dalbec-Schwarber might be biggest power hitting infield of all time so chances are they will slug. We’ll definitely regret it at times though. It’s just going to be about limiting how much you play them together at the end of games. You can live with an early game error or two because you know they have a big chunk of time to get it back with the bats, but they’d have to trot Arroyo out there pretty frequently for Schwarber and move Dalbec to 1B for the end of games IMO
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