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10/5 - AL Wild Card Game: Red Sox vs. Yankees
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Post by benzinger on Oct 4, 2021 12:50:52 GMT -5
I have updated the extremely official rankings of greatest Red Sox players of all time Chris Sale remains the 7th best starting pitcher and 26th best player. Eduardo Rodriguez debuts as the 26th best starting pitcher, between Dutch Leonard and Ray Collins. Christian Vazquez remains the third best catcher, ahead of Rich Gedman, and behind Varitek and Fisk. Rafael Devers passes Tim Naehring to become the 4th best 3B. Xander Bogaerts passes Rico Petrocelli and John Valentin to become the third best SS, behind Nomar and Pesky. He is now the 18th greatest Red Sox of all time, passing legends such as Jon Lester, Jimmie Foxx and Fred Lynn. Chris Sale is obviously a great pitcher, but has he ever really come up big in a big game(and I’m not talking about 1 inning to close out the WS in 2018? He had another chance to shine in a big game yesterday and stunk it up. Houston pummeled him in the 2017 playoffs. He pitched OK against the Yankees in the 2018 playoffs, but again couldn’t handle the Astros or the Dodgers. All of this adds up to career 5.76ERA in the postseason. I find that to be unbelievable and troubling at the same time.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 4, 2021 13:05:33 GMT -5
Hard to get excited for this game with how this team's bullpen has been performing and how they've done in "must-win" situations and games against superior opponents. With that said, win this ONE GAME, and the entire season is a complete success. Anything more is just extra credit. Even if they lose ALDS game 5 or the ALCS game 7 up 7 runs in the 9th inning. All I ask for is that they win 1 time. This seems very strange for any serious Sox fan. I mean, this team has been getting their teeth knocked in by the Yankees as of late. Every single time they had big games and series by solid opponents, they lost. They haven't been very good in awhile unless you count them beating up on the Orioles (which they recently blew 2 games against), the Mets, the Nationals, etc. They did the bare minimum of what was needed to get WC 1 (after having one of the best records in baseball by the trade deadline and almost missed the playoffs entirely). When you have a team that's as hot as NY, as poorly as you've been playing, with a known fatal flaw in the bullpen and you're going up against one of the best pitchers in baseball against Gerrit Cole, it's hard to get excited because it feels like we know the outcome. Look what happened last time Nasty Nate pitched against them (though I don't expect THAT twice in a row). But, it is one-game winner-take-all. Hope Gerrit has an off-night and see you tomorrow. And if they win, I'm happy with the season no matter what happens theater.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 4, 2021 13:20:19 GMT -5
With that said, win this ONE GAME, and the entire season is a complete success. The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 4, 2021 13:29:23 GMT -5
Bah. Scared of *them*? Did they see Devers hit baseballs so hard the folks who wrapped them may have died? The Sox have the best player on the field. Period. Sox in 1. By B-Ref WAR, it's not close, unfortunately. Devers is at 3.5; Judge is at 5.9 in a handful fewer games. Cole is at 5.6. X and KKH are each at 4.9. Eo is at 4.6.
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Post by manfred on Oct 4, 2021 13:35:54 GMT -5
Bah. Scared of *them*? Did they see Devers hit baseballs so hard the folks who wrapped them may have died? The Sox have the best player on the field. Period. Sox in 1. By B-Ref WAR, it's not close, unfortunately. Devers is at 3.5; Judge is at 5.9 in a handful fewer games. Cole is at 5.6. X and KKH are each at 4.9. Eo is at 4.6. Pshaw. I would not trade Raffy for Judge and Cole together. They can WAR me a river.
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 4, 2021 13:38:21 GMT -5
Christian Arroyo will be this game’s Bucky Dent
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 4, 2021 13:40:52 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure Devers hits Cole and he is getting going again. If Xander can find it in him. Plus I bet someone else . Is he going with Vasquez for Evoladi?
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Post by curtisw on Oct 4, 2021 14:16:12 GMT -5
Yeah I don’t see how anyone can be all that negative about this club. For the nth time this club was not expected to be good. They finished second in a division with four (4) 90+ game winners. There’s a case to be made the AL East was a harder division than the vaunted NL West. This team IS a feel good story ultimately regardless of their struggles in August and September when they were beat up and thinned out a little. This team was not gutless, but in the end, gutsy. They accomplished something really no one thought very likely at all. The last series against WSH really for me encapsulated this squad and this season. I thought it beautiful, and the type of beauty that is one of the reasons I fell so deeply in love with baseball.
All this to say, I don’t think anyone should feel all that negative towards tomorrow. Win or lose it will still be a great ride of a year. I would be of course lying if I said I wasn’t desperate for them to beat the MFY. But even if they do lose I’ll have fond memories of this squad.
And there is good reason to think they won’t lose. Very excited to see if this group of guys can play themselves into the ALDS against all odds. LETS GO RED SOX!!!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 4, 2021 14:58:55 GMT -5
The one thing I'd add is that the Yankees have just as many flaws as the Red Sox do. There's probably a yankees9698990009champs out there with an assessment of the Yankees that reads very similar to yours. We're both flawed 90-win teams who if things all come together are hard teams to beat, but like my golf game they just can't seem to get all phases of the game clicking at the same time. If either of them play up to their potential, they are hard teams to beat. For the sake of baseball I just hope it's not two teams playing each other at their worst. Let the best team win the game rather than be handed the game. Nah....I don't think there is any such intelligent Yankee fan creature. Haha. That's because one cannot be a Yankee fan unless they are arrogant, brash, really full of hubris, think the center of the baseball world revolves around the Yankees because all other teams exist because of the Yankees who God has chosen to be the team to win the World Series every year because they are the Yankees. It's in the Yankees fan handbook. I've heard of humble Yankee fans but it might be one of those mythological creatures like leprechauns, mermaids and big foot. Therefore there are no Yankee fans who have doubts, concerns, or worries about their team, despite the flaws that all of us can see, even some of us anxious Red Sox fans who really hate the way the Sox played the Yankees the past six games or think that the Yankees the past two months have been a really strong team in a way they weren't when they were decimated in June and July. But yes, logically, in a one game playoff ANYTHING can happen. If I were a betting man I'd take the Yankees based off the past couple of months and then I'd bet on them to lose to Tampa but then again if I was any good at betting I wouldn't have to work for a living.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 4, 2021 15:13:04 GMT -5
Do not lose to the MFY.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 4, 2021 15:30:43 GMT -5
With that said, win this ONE GAME, and the entire season is a complete success. The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow. Eh, I respectfully disagree on that. They over achieved and then under achieved to balance out what was the expectation. I personally had them at about 93 wins before the season started. They held on to dear life for that WC 1 and were fortunate to have had Tampa Bay taking care of business. Red Sox were fortunate enough to escape 2 of the 3 games they swept against a Nationals team with nothing to play for. They limped in for months and showed no real hope for possible advancement. The team isn't overly young either, but they do have some young guys (Houck, Whitlock, maybe Dalbec) that showed they could be counted on in the future. Success based on March expectations? Sure. I just think they did enough in season to have expected more from them. I'm not even saying win the AL East, but they should have been able to push Tampa down the stretch.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Oct 4, 2021 15:38:10 GMT -5
Give Stanton and Judge the Soto treatment. Pitch them around the edges of the zone if you have to pitch to them at all. Of course, it's tougher to pitch around two hitters than one. But if we keep them both in the yard tomorrow, our chances of winning go way up.
The MFYs don't have a single guy other than those two with an OPS-plus of 100. They have a few guys in the 90s.
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Post by jkfer98 on Oct 4, 2021 16:58:50 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 4, 2021 16:59:37 GMT -5
They over achieved and then under achieved to balance out what was the expectation. I personally had them at about 93 wins before the season started. They held on to dear life for that WC 1 and were fortunate to have had Tampa Bay taking care of business. Red Sox were fortunate enough to escape 2 of the 3 games they swept against a Nationals team with nothing to play for. They limped in for months and showed no real hope for possible advancement. The team isn't overly young either, but they do have some young guys (Houck, Whitlock, maybe Dalbec) that showed they could be counted on in the future. At no point during the season did they ever under-achieve. What Tampa did or didn't do had no effect whatsoever in the Red Sox fortune, they would have won 92 games to make the playoffs no matter what. Sure the game could have been on NY, then again, the fact that Tampa won 100 games makes it highly unlikely the Yankees could have won the series hands down. This is a very negative stance to have on what was supposed to be a rebuild year. Good for you for guessing 93 wins, a lot of folks didn't see it that way. We should be happy they're here, not go BUT BUT BUT on every detail. Don't overthink it, 20 teams didn't make it and we did! That by itself is a feat considering the circumstances.
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Post by manfred on Oct 4, 2021 16:59:55 GMT -5
I can imagine Arroyo doing something big. He’s looked like a guy who elevates his game this year.
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Post by tizzle on Oct 4, 2021 17:08:48 GMT -5
I can imagine Arroyo doing something big. He’s looked like a guy who elevates his game this year. I don't know if he ever got back to 100% from Covid. Hope I'm wrong, I really like the guy.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Oct 4, 2021 17:25:36 GMT -5
With that said, win this ONE GAME, and the entire season is a complete success. The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow. Yes! In March my hope was they'd be .500 or so but I would not have been surprised if they hadn't gotten there. I just didn't want to be embarrassed again like 2020. My slightly irrational hope was that they'd still be in the playoff mix come September. They're IN the bleeping playoffs!!! Of course during the season they were very bad for a while, very good for a wile, very bad, ... and the expectations, hopes, and fears bounced all over the place. Who the hell knows which team will show up tomorrow (or afterward). Go Sox!
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 4, 2021 19:10:31 GMT -5
I think I heard this on Weei after a certain date the Sox went .500 rest of the way. Maybe all star break. Boy I would like iglesias would be nice for postseason. I’m rooting for Arroyo
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 4, 2021 19:20:54 GMT -5
The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow. Yes! In March my hope was they'd be .500 or so but I would not have been surprised if they hadn't gotten there. I just didn't want to be embarrassed again like 2020. My slightly irrational hope was that they'd still be in the playoff mix come September. They're IN the bleeping playoffs!!! Of course during the season they were very bad for a while, very good for a wile, very bad, ... and the expectations, hopes, and fears bounced all over the place. Who the hell knows which team will show up tomorrow (or afterward). Go Sox! See, that is the thing. We know which Sox team will show up tomorrow. It is the team that is playing to its level, not the one that overachieved. It is the team that is inconsistent, can lose two out of three to the Orioles, then have its fifth starter pitch five perfect innings. It is the team that sent its best pitcher out for game 162 and saw him walk a guy on four pitches and then get pulled after 2 2/3 innings. It is the team that could not get going offensively against a raw rookie making his first start. And it is the team that came back late to win its place as WC1. It is a team with great strengths and many warts. And mostly it is a good baseball team that is not infallible. Enjoy the game, and remember that few thought we would be here this year. Screw the Yankees. They are not the story here. The Red Sox. Our Red Sox of 2021 and 2022 and 2023 are. Win or lose. This year has already been a great year.
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 4, 2021 19:54:17 GMT -5
I can imagine Arroyo doing something big. He’s looked like a guy who elevates his game this year. Hopefully Arroyo can play solid defense and have some productive AB's. He has 1 hit and 9 AB's since 7/18/21
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 4, 2021 19:58:00 GMT -5
The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow. Eh, I respectfully disagree on that. They over achieved and then under achieved to balance out what was the expectation. I personally had them at about 93 wins before the season started. They held on to dear life for that WC 1 and were fortunate to have had Tampa Bay taking care of business. Red Sox were fortunate enough to escape 2 of the 3 games they swept against a Nationals team with nothing to play for. They limped in for months and showed no real hope for possible advancement. The team isn't overly young either, but they do have some young guys (Houck, Whitlock, maybe Dalbec) that showed they could be counted on in the future. Success based on March expectations? Sure. I just think they did enough in season to have expected more from them. I'm not even saying win the AL East, but they should have been able to push Tampa down the stretch. Are you serious or is this a joke ?. The expectation was 92 wins ? That's just flat out wrong.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 4, 2021 20:30:45 GMT -5
Eh, I respectfully disagree on that. They over achieved and then under achieved to balance out what was the expectation. I personally had them at about 93 wins before the season started. They held on to dear life for that WC 1 and were fortunate to have had Tampa Bay taking care of business. Red Sox were fortunate enough to escape 2 of the 3 games they swept against a Nationals team with nothing to play for. They limped in for months and showed no real hope for possible advancement. The team isn't overly young either, but they do have some young guys (Houck, Whitlock, maybe Dalbec) that showed they could be counted on in the future. Success based on March expectations? Sure. I just think they did enough in season to have expected more from them. I'm not even saying win the AL East, but they should have been able to push Tampa down the stretch. Are you serious or is this a joke ?. The expectation was 92 wins ? That's just flat out wrong. On April 22 redsoxfan2 wrote "This is a .500 team that just got hot".
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 4, 2021 20:37:40 GMT -5
Christian Arroyo will be this game’s Bucky Dent I actually asked myself, which guy on the roster could fit that role, and came up with the same answer. That means it has to happen, right?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 4, 2021 20:42:21 GMT -5
Christian Arroyo will be this game’s Bucky Dent I actually asked myself, which guy on the roster could fit that role, and came up with the same answer. That means it has to happen, right? I can see Plawecki filling this role as well.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 4, 2021 21:27:20 GMT -5
With that said, win this ONE GAME, and the entire season is a complete success. The season is already a complete success regardless of what happens tomorrow. I guess I'm setting the bar a little higher. The season will be a COMPLETE success if they win the ALDS and here's why:
On April 1st, I put $30 down on the Sox to win the ALCS at 30:1 odds. (I also put $17 down on Over 79.5 wins because that's all I had left in my pocket and I don't trust casino ATMs.) If the Sox can just make it to the ALCS (i.e. win the ALDS), I can then hedge my ALCS ticket by putting about $450 on whoever their opponent would be and be guaranteed of winning about $450.
That would also mean that the Sox would beat the MFYs tomorrow and then TB in the ALDS and that would be pretty sweet too.
LFG!
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