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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 22, 2022 11:57:37 GMT -5
Clunkers happen
IMO blame for yesterday goes on everyone, and we still almost won. I'm going to be livid at Ime if Theis sees another minute in this series.
Losing this series against a team of Jimmy Butler, Bam, and GLeaguers would be a calamity of epic proportions.
The thing that a lot of non hoopers don't understand is that basketball more than any other sport is a "feel" and rhythm sport and it can vary immensely day to day. Everything can be going in and you have an exact sense of when you miss and which side (short, right) one day and another day you can't even dribble. It's all about rhythm and we had none of it yesterday. It's not necessarily going to carry to G4.
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Post by philarhody on May 23, 2022 6:31:15 GMT -5
I think the Heat are like that. The Bucks are like that. The Warriors are like that. Lebron changed a lot about the league. He is the most image conscious superstar in the history of sports. Jimmy Butler looked up to Jordan. Jayson Tatum looked up to Lebron. This is absurd, find me a championship run without a clunker or two along the way and I will say you proved my point not yours by finding the exception to the rule. This is not about a bad shooting night. It’s about mental toughness. It’s about making excuses about the bubble and saying you were just exhausted after playing Toronto (see Jayson Tatum’s interview with JJ Redick). It’s about calling yourself “the most talented team in the league” and yet not making it past the Eastern Conference Finals in 5 years. It’s about turning the ball over on isolating drives every two minutes when the other team turns up the pressure. It’s about refusing to shoot or touch the ball in a key spot when your team needs you most.
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Post by philarhody on May 23, 2022 6:36:47 GMT -5
Clunkers happen IMO blame for yesterday goes on everyone, and we still almost won. I'm going to be livid at Ime if Theis sees another minute in this series. Losing this series against a team of Jimmy Butler, Bam, and GLeaguers would be a calamity of epic proportions. The thing that a lot of non hoopers don't understand is that basketball more than any other sport is a "feel" and rhythm sport and it can vary immensely day to day. Everything can be going in and you have an exact sense of when you miss and which side (short, right) one day and another day you can't even dribble. It's all about rhythm and we had none of it yesterday. It's not necessarily going to carry to G4. That’s a good point. As a hooper like yourself, you must understand that there are certain players that find ways to impact a game even when their rhythm is off. Even when they can’t make a three or buy a foul or seemingly dribble. That’s mental toughness. That’s winning basketball. My concern is that the Celtics are mentally soft. If they don’t have it, they fall into horrible habits. That sucks, because this could be a juggernaut if the mental toughness matched the talent.
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,797
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Post by mobaz on May 23, 2022 8:29:25 GMT -5
Clunkers happen IMO blame for yesterday goes on everyone, and we still almost won. I'm going to be livid at Ime if Theis sees another minute in this series. Losing this series against a team of Jimmy Butler, Bam, and GLeaguers would be a calamity of epic proportions. The thing that a lot of non hoopers don't understand is that basketball more than any other sport is a "feel" and rhythm sport and it can vary immensely day to day. Everything can be going in and you have an exact sense of when you miss and which side (short, right) one day and another day you can't even dribble. It's all about rhythm and we had none of it yesterday. It's not necessarily going to carry to G4. That’s a good point. As a hooper like yourself, you must understand that there are certain players that find ways to impact a game even when their rhythm is off. Even when they can’t make a three or buy a foul or seemingly dribble. That’s mental toughness. That’s winning basketball. My concern is that the Celtics are mentally soft. If they don’t have it, they fall into horrible habits. That sucks, because this could be a juggernaut if the mental toughness matched the talent. I wonder if a PJ Tucker/Jae Crowder/Marcus Morris type is the best MLE add this offseason to get that non-stop motor microwave. Not sure if it'd be enough, but might help.
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Post by jmei on May 23, 2022 9:25:24 GMT -5
They already had Morris in the building, though, and he was the problem, not a solution. Plus, Smart is one of the premier hustle guys in the league. Honestly, after a certain point, these guys just need to decide whether they want it or not. This is Brown’s sixth year in the league and Tatum’s fifth. Hard to keep chalking it up to just being young.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 10:47:07 GMT -5
Crowder reunion makes sense IMO
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 10:55:27 GMT -5
They already had Morris in the building, though, and he was the problem, not a solution. Plus, Smart is one of the premier hustle guys in the league. Honestly, after a certain point, these guys just need to decide whether they want it or not. This is Brown’s sixth year in the league and Tatum’s fifth. Hard to keep chalking it up to just being young. While I agree almost no players win championships before their true 26-27 year old primes, even Giannis and MJ didn't. I hear you though, if there's *any* team that should do it based on the surrounding cast it's this one.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 23, 2022 11:49:02 GMT -5
Interesting columns on WEEI today about how Bam salivated at having Their on him, and PJ Tucker living in Tatum's head.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 23, 2022 12:14:27 GMT -5
They already had Morris in the building, though, and he was the problem, not a solution. Plus, Smart is one of the premier hustle guys in the league. Honestly, after a certain point, these guys just need to decide whether they want it or not. This is Brown’s sixth year in the league and Tatum’s fifth. Hard to keep chalking it up to just being young. While I agree almost no players win championships before their true 26-27 year old primes, even Giannis and MJ didn't. I hear you though, if there's *any* team that should do it based on the surrounding cast it's this one. Why is that though? Those players weren't ready or it took that long to build championship teams around them? Go look at Jordan and Giannis playoff stats. Jordan was a beast day one and Giannis has Been since 2018. Those guys joined crappy teams, three straight first round playoff exists for both. Tatum went ECF, ECS, ECF, then EC1, then ECF. Tatum and Brown have had way more talent around them than Jordan and Giannis at the same age. They have more playoff success. Larry Bird went to a good team like Tatum and Brown, won one 2nd year at age 24. Neither player needs to reach a Jordan or Giannis level for us to win. The reasons why age mattered to those two is not the same for Tatum and Brown. They weren’t drafted into great teams with picks from another team with an all-time brilliant trade that allowed to you make deep playoff runs, while getting high lottery picks. If they were, they would have won sooner.
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Post by philarhody on May 23, 2022 12:45:23 GMT -5
They already had Morris in the building, though, and he was the problem, not a solution. Plus, Smart is one of the premier hustle guys in the league. Honestly, after a certain point, these guys just need to decide whether they want it or not. This is Brown’s sixth year in the league and Tatum’s fifth. Hard to keep chalking it up to just being young. While I agree almost no players win championships before their true 26-27 year old primes, even Giannis and MJ didn't. I hear you though, if there's *any* team that should do it based on the surrounding cast it's this one. Young modern stars are taught the game at such a high level from such a young age that comparing their development to an outlier like Giannis is wrong. When Giannis was playing in 3rd division Greece, Tatum was playing for an ACC championship. Giannis dealt with malnourishment as a child. Tatum could have played in the league as a senior in high school. He scored 27 in a half of his high school championship. He’s had NBA talent around him his whole life. I stopped making excuses for him after the bubble.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 12:56:49 GMT -5
I get it. Just because Tatum could have played in the league then or had a different developmental track doesn't mean he should be winning a championship now, necessarily.
Championships are incredibly hard given its the top 1% of 1% of teams and players. A lot of them have to do with injuries or absolutely everything aligning with a generational team/system (Spurs, Warriors) or generational player (Giannis, LeBron), or those things combining (Steph/Klay/Draymond: Warriors, Duncan/Parker/Ginobilli: Spurs). Tatum clearly isn't on that generational level, at least yet, even if he's a top level player.
LeBron himself, despite being a WAY better player than Tatum, even didn't win a championship until he was 27!!! in his second season with the Heat and adding one of the BEST and another generational SG in Wade (who is way better than Brown is or probably ever will be), and an incredibly good fit and all-star player in Bosh. It took heartbreak to the Mavs the year before to even get there. Growth is not linear. Tatum just turned 24 and none of the players around him is as good as Wade, or hell probably even as good as prime Draymond, Klay, Parker, or Ginobilli.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 23, 2022 13:21:35 GMT -5
Thoughts on tonight's game? Hard to even confirm who is playing, with all of the various injuries, minor or major. I'm thinking Celtics pretty decisively.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 13:51:07 GMT -5
Thoughts on tonight's game? Hard to even confirm who is playing, with all of the various injuries, minor or major. I'm thinking Celtics pretty decisively. Well its a must win for us so we better win. If we have one of Smart or Timelord I think we win, if we are missing both it could be rough going depending on the lineup decisions from Ime. At the end of the day if Tatum puts up 35+ with good A/TO ratio and good defense we'll probably win regardless. Need him to be excellent.
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Post by philarhody on May 23, 2022 14:52:26 GMT -5
Thoughts on tonight's game? Hard to even confirm who is playing, with all of the various injuries, minor or major. I'm thinking Celtics pretty decisively. I agree. I think Celtics win by double digits.
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Post by philarhody on May 23, 2022 15:08:00 GMT -5
It’s really annoying that Marcus Smart is getting DPOYs and Hustle Awards in series against great defensive players and a bunch of hustle/glue guys.
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Post by jmei on May 23, 2022 15:16:41 GMT -5
They already had Morris in the building, though, and he was the problem, not a solution. Plus, Smart is one of the premier hustle guys in the league. Honestly, after a certain point, these guys just need to decide whether they want it or not. This is Brown’s sixth year in the league and Tatum’s fifth. Hard to keep chalking it up to just being young. While I agree almost no players win championships before their true 26-27 year old primes, even Giannis and MJ didn't. I hear you though, if there's *any* team that should do it based on the surrounding cast it's this one. It’s not about winning a title by a certain age, it’s about how they still play with easily correctable bad habits like Tatum’s incorrigible need to complain to referees rather than getting back on defense or Brown being unfocused on defense. You can chalk that stuff up to youth, but after a while, it’s just who they are.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 16:17:18 GMT -5
I see - that makes sense - I guess my point was that I do think the two things are conflated somewhat (youth & those bad habits), but can see how it could be viewed that the habits are just ingrained and not going away anytime soon (or anytime at all). Its definitely infuriating to watch and pretty indicting of them as players.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 16:42:41 GMT -5
The more I marinate on it the more I think that Timelord, more than anyone, is the key in this series.
He neutralizes Bam (and even to a lesser extent, Jimmy) in the paint to a degree nobody else can, and is a pressure release valve on offense (and passes very well to boot).
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Post by voiceofreason on May 23, 2022 18:10:05 GMT -5
All anybody talks about is the Celtics either playing well or not, Tatum this Brown that etc.
Yeah know what, the Heat don't suck and they play a part in how the C's perform. They are the #1 seed and play with a lot of moxie. They got punked in game 2 and responded with some extremely tough D in game 3, why isn't anyone talking about that. The C's are the better team but the Heat are tough as nails and this is why they play the games, this is great sports. Would every one rather the C's blow them out in 4.
And sure Tatum needs to stop berating the refs, shut up and play the game but he just turned 24. What were we all doing at 24 and did we mature a bit after that age, didn't he just finish #6 in the MVP voting. He and Brown both have not hit their ceilings yet and a championship this year would be ahead of schedule by any measure.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 23, 2022 18:16:43 GMT -5
Crazy Magic Johnson stat.
He won High School State championship. College championship as a sophomore and NBA Championship his rookie season. Three championships at each level in 4 yrs.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 18:59:33 GMT -5
No Marcus stings a lot
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2022 19:53:43 GMT -5
12-1 start is great, but I feel like it easily could have been 24-1.
edit - it could be 24-1 now and it would feel like it should be 30-1 even though it's 18-1.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 19:59:35 GMT -5
This is why you trade for White.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2022 20:05:04 GMT -5
Remember when people thought Dennis Schroeder was a good signing?
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,421
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Post by ianrs on May 23, 2022 20:22:18 GMT -5
Tatum is so, so much better when he minimizes his dribbles and is decisive.
As I noted earlier, Robert Williams is MASSSIVE for us - multiple offensive putbacks and a rebounding machine on top of a huge defensive deterrent.
Quite literally polar opposite of Theis who does nothing well anymore and is consistently cooked on defense.
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