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2021-2022 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Mar 13, 2022 23:35:21 GMT -5
That model works if the Yankees were a team that cared about money. They don’t though and Donaldson is still a dangerous bat. Taking him on for this year and next isn’t a big deal for them. Of course he’s not what he once was but a 127 OPS+ isn’t anything to dismiss.
Now with all that being said hopefully he falls off a cliff this year. Given the wear and tear on him and the age that could absolutely happen. Probably why the twins wanted to unload him- they can’t afford to take that gamble while trying to compete. A $21 mill sunken cost is absolutely devastating to a franchise like that. Yankees can afford to take the risk.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 23:53:04 GMT -5
That’s a wild one twins apparently will try to flip Gary. Future Boston Red Sox catcher Gary Sanchez 3b. Devers for Sanchez and 4 16-year olds that are *definitely* going to start in 2029. manfred, your posts are so….so uplifting…..
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 13, 2022 23:55:51 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 14, 2022 7:00:46 GMT -5
I think folks might be underestimating how bad Donaldson's injury issues have been. Missed more than half of the short season in 2020, and last year played just 56% of the team's games at 3B because of games missed and that he had to DH. He's a big question mark and getting his full contract off the books was a pretty good move by the Twins.
Also, these aren't the "they don't care about the CBT" Yankees any more. They have gone over just once since 2017. And there is a very real question of how that lineup works when Donaldson inevitably needs to DH.
They're also apparently looking to add a 1B still. Perhaps they think LeMahieu is toast?
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 14, 2022 8:26:49 GMT -5
The Yankees infield was very bad last year and the rest of the team was very good. Donaldson's not a star anymore, but he's above average-ish. Kiner-Falefa's a solid player at a spot the team need an upgrade. Sanchez is 29, and has hit .201/.299/.444 with a 29% K rate going all the way back to 2018, he's really just not very good. The only argument against the trade is that they're spending a lot of money to get a little bit better, but they have the money to spend and two to four wins might be huge at the margins.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 14, 2022 9:28:42 GMT -5
So, basically the trade in a nut shell: Older, hurt, over-paid above average player for young-ish, terrible defensive catcher who hasn't hit since 2018, but had enormous offensive upside.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,014
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Post by mobaz on Mar 14, 2022 11:20:22 GMT -5
Kevin Acee @sdutkevinacee Fernando Tatis Jr. has a fractured wrist. Surgery probable. Could miss a few months, but he’s been a quick healer.
I'm so tired of injuries. Takes a lot of the fun out of the game.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 14, 2022 11:38:55 GMT -5
Though he woulda been a good fit for the Sox. He really turned his career around moving to the late innings.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 14, 2022 11:45:25 GMT -5
What am I missing with the Kennedy love? He has a 3.98 ERA and 4.40 FIP as a reliever. Diekman, for comparison, is 3.73/3.46.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 14, 2022 12:01:28 GMT -5
Q: Is Cashman EVER going to stop trying to assemble the all-star team from 5 years ago?
This is really hilarious to me. Good for him getting rid of Sanchez (about 3 years too late) and filling a defensive hole at SS [N.B. IKF's career OPS+ is 81, with an 85 last season, so he's batting 9th.] But throwing Urshela out with the bathwater is a bonehead move to me. And then you also add yet another old, fragile, DH-only (imminently) who will cost $51m+ the next two years? I would understand, maybe, if you were unloading the Carl Crawford or David Price contract or something like that but this is nuts.
Can you imagine how angry you'd be if, say, DD made this trade for the Sox? (Obviously, Chaim would wake up screaming if he ever dreamed of such a trade.)
Get ready, MFY fans, for more extended periods of lineups featuring Tyler Wade, Miguel Andujar, Chris Gittens, and Andrew Velazquez... with IKF as a regular, um, contributor!
If they're still reportedly shopping for a 1B, this also likely means they'll sell low on Gleyber Torres in the next few days...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 14, 2022 12:11:59 GMT -5
What am I missing with the Kennedy love? He has a 3.98 ERA and 4.40 FIP as a reliever. Diekman, for comparison, is 3.73/3.46. I was just going on what I saw of him but a quick scan of his b-ref page shows that the oddball 2020 season (8.83 FIP) appears to skew his reliever numbers terribly. He also didn't finish 2021 that great after being traded to PHI (curse of DD?). But in 2019 and the first four months of 2021 he was really good. I'd be just fine with him in the Sox bullpen and would trust him to close more than Barnes.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 14, 2022 13:09:42 GMT -5
I guess Freddie Freeman to the Dodgers is happening.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 14, 2022 13:17:49 GMT -5
I guess Freddie Freeman to the Dodgers is happening. For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Mar 14, 2022 13:32:56 GMT -5
I guess Freddie Freeman to the Dodgers is happening. For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul. Braves prospects 1, 2, 6 and 14 on this list: www.mlb.com/prospects/braves
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Post by bosox904 on Mar 14, 2022 13:37:59 GMT -5
I guess Freddie Freeman to the Dodgers is happening. For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul. Hopefully this makes a trade for Sean Murphy possible for the Sox.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 14, 2022 13:50:03 GMT -5
Olson looks to be worth about 9 WAR over the next two seasons. Should get paid about $30 million in arb over that time. So something like $45-50 million in surplus value.
Langeliers and Pache are top 100 prospects that look like they're ready to step in and be second division starters this year. Cusick was just drafted #24 and had a nice debut.
Don't see prospect hauls like this much anymore. I'd be unhappy about this if I were a Braves fan, especially with Freeman unsigned.
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 14, 2022 13:54:03 GMT -5
For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul. Hopefully this makes a trade for Sean Murphy possible for the Sox. I would imagine the Yankees are looking for a catcher too
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,014
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Post by mobaz on Mar 14, 2022 14:09:45 GMT -5
Kevin Acee @sdutkevinacee Fernando Tatis Jr. has a fractured wrist. Surgery probable. Could miss a few months, but he’s been a quick healer. I'm so tired of injuries. Takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Sympathy retreating...
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 14, 2022 14:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 14, 2022 14:52:26 GMT -5
So what does the MFY lineup look like after their big trade? Here's what I see right now:
| Pos | Player | Age | 2021 OPS+
| Signed thru
| G/162 since '18
| 1 | 2B | DJLM
| 33 | 97 | 2026 | 143 | 2 | 3B | Donaldson | 36 | 127 | 2023 | 110 | 3
| RF | Judge | 30 | 149 | 2022 | 115 | 4 | DH | Stanton | 32 | 136 | 2027 | 100 | 5 | LF | Gallo* | 28 | 121 (93 w/MFYs)
| 2022 | 127 | 6 | 1B | Voit | 31 | 109 | 2025 (arb)
| 109 | 7
| CF | Hicks# | 32 | 73
| 2025 | 84 | 8 | SS
| Kiner-Falefa | 27 | 81 | 2023 (arb)
| 118
| 9 | C | Higashioka | 31 | 71 | 2025 (arb)
| 75 |
There are no iron men here, although DJLM comes the closest. [N.B. I calculated G/162 based on 2020 being a 60-game season, then figured the % of total G played in the last 4 years and multiplied by 162. I also gave Voit, IKF, and Higashioka credit for minor league games played over that time; I'm focusing on durability, not penalizing younger guys for when they weren't in the big leagues.]
Obviously Judge and Stanton are top shelf hitters but there are plenty of question marks in addition to their durability.
How many games will Donaldson play in the field over the next two years? (The G/162 listed here includes games he DHed.) Will Stanton, who has only managed 100 G/162 the last four seasons while mostly at DH, have to play OF, with Judge moving to CF? Both of those options present big injury risks.
Can DJLM's bat bounce back? Only five more seasons to find out... Can Voit and Hicks stay on the field? Does Cashman shop for replacements (only four more years on Hicks's contract...)? Even IKF has had some injury issues.
Outside of IKF, the IF D is going to be bad. Gallo is a good OF, Judge is above average when healthy but you have to wonder if they just unload Hicks's contract for a lottery ticket. If I were a MFY fan, I'd want them to acquire a good fielding 2B and move DJLM to 1B, where his glove plays up (they tried that with Odor last year but he was terrible in the field and at the plate). Add a good CF and you've at least got good D up the middle. My guess, though, is they'll try Gleyber Torres there and hope he surprises them.
Catching duties now fall to Higashioka, who calls a good game but can't hit, and the rookie they just got from MIN, Rortvedt, who has played a total of 89 minor league games above A ball (about the same as Connor Wong but Wong also caught 95 games in college). Rorty was called up for 39 games last season with the Twinks out of contention and he was overmatched. He's a LH batter who has hit okay vs. RHP in the minors, so he makes a decent platoon-mate for Higashioka, but they'll probably need to sign a veteran to pair with Higashioka for the first half of the season at least while Rorty gets a little more seasoning and the MFY coaches get a look at him. Looks like they have AAAA C Rob Brantly in SWB. He hasn't had more than 36 MLB PAs in a season since 2013... bet he knows how to sleep on a bus.
Overall, the current lineup has 7 RHB, one LHB and a switch hitter who may or may not be replaced. The heart of the lineup just got a boost and they at least filled their SS hole but there's way too much need to cross their fingers on health.
Also, while the smart teams are all trying to maximize production from younger, less proven (and cheaper) players, the MFYs still place a premium on past MLB performance and name-recognition (are you as surprised as I was to find that Donaldson hasn't been an All-star since 2016?). Clearly that strategy carries a big durability risk, so depth is just as key and the MFYs' depth guys didn't do much last season. Have they improved their depth while bringing in a new, injury-prone 3B?
I doubt they're done (as many teams, including the Red Sox, also aren't) but it seems pretty unlikely they'll be able to patch or paint over all of their flaws. This trade is a high-risk, medium-reward play that could make them better or could simply fizzle.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 14, 2022 14:58:06 GMT -5
For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul. Hopefully this makes a trade for Sean Murphy possible for the Sox. The A's have 4 years of control over him. Seems like a guy they'd want to build around. Langeliers is probably at least a year away, if not late 2023.
EDIT: I guess FG has his ETA in 2022 but he has a grand total of 5 games played in AAA. I'm dubious that a C gets called up with only half a year of AAA experience. I guess if they're tanking...
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 14, 2022 15:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by benzinger on Mar 14, 2022 15:30:08 GMT -5
Those games are few and far between, in reality. How many games each season even go beyond 15 innings? That said, I hope they leave the normal rules in place for the 10th and 11th before going to the “ghost runner” concept. Then you can get gimmicky in the 12th.
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Post by benzinger on Mar 14, 2022 15:31:14 GMT -5
For Shea Langeliers, Christian Pache, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes. A huge haul. Hopefully this makes a trade for Sean Murphy possible for the Sox. What’s all the love for Murphy about? Good glove, subpar bat. Meh.
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Post by benzinger on Mar 14, 2022 16:09:53 GMT -5
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