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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 26, 2021 17:33:17 GMT -5
Can he be one of those guys who can dial it up for 3 innings and be another piggyback starter/reliever that they get 120-130 innings out of? We can hope I guess. I can't imagine the Sox are going to pencil him in as a regular starter.
Not a surprising addition and I expect more of the same but I would hope and expect they have much bigger things in mind. If not I will be more than disappointed.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 26, 2021 17:35:48 GMT -5
Negative WAR actually. I would’ve rather just exercised Pérez’ option than this.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 17:38:48 GMT -5
Negative WAR actually. I would’ve rather just exercised Pérez’ option than this. depends which site you look at. Fangraphs had him at 1.1 fWAR. Does seem crazy there's a 1.8 difference in WAR between baseball reference and fan graphs
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 26, 2021 17:42:58 GMT -5
One caveat to the strong regular-season finish, though: The Sox tattooed him in the playoffs. Not trying to exaggerate Wacha's potential, but you could put together a pretty good pitching staff made up of guys the 2021 Red Sox tattooed in the playoffs.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 26, 2021 17:43:31 GMT -5
The roster spot also might be a higher cost than the money. And I cant remember ever feeling that way about a signing in recent memory.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 26, 2021 17:44:23 GMT -5
Nice dumpster dive. His cutter gets rocked and he's a shell of his former self. While they're at it might as well sign Matt Harvey.
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Post by baseball3 on Nov 26, 2021 17:52:15 GMT -5
Hope he works out better than Andriese. That was a pretty big reach at the time. Andriese was never good. Wacha has at least been good at times.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 26, 2021 18:37:01 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Nov 26, 2021 18:55:40 GMT -5
He’s made 3 million each of the last two seasons, if you get him for around that number I like the move
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 26, 2021 19:00:49 GMT -5
Too bad we'll never get to hear 'Michael Wacher' from Jerry Remy
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Post by terriblehondo on Nov 26, 2021 19:04:44 GMT -5
Fingers crossed but from what I saw of him last year he isn't a guy I would want to give the ball to on a regular basis. I sure hope Bloom is right.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 26, 2021 19:15:37 GMT -5
Gotta start somewhere. I predict (or at least I hope) that by the time they report to Ft. Myers, Wacha will be at most the third best pitcher they acquire. Hope they have a plan for cutting his HR rate...
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 19:16:04 GMT -5
If wacha is just a potential 5th starter insurance/swing guy in case houck and or Whitlock don't take the rotation as expected then I don't hate the move. If they're expecting him to be a guaranteed rotation member then I would definitely hate the move. I have to see what else they do with the pitching staff before I form a full opinion on it.
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Post by chr31ter on Nov 26, 2021 19:36:08 GMT -5
Can he be one of those guys who can dial it up for 3 innings and be another piggyback starter/reliever that they get 120-130 innings out of? I'm thinking this is what Bloom has in mind... a guy who throws two pitches effectively for two/three innings at a time. They want him to be a quality bulk reliever.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 26, 2021 19:41:18 GMT -5
If wacha is just a potential 5th starter insurance/swing guy in case houck and or Whitlock don't take the rotation as expected then I don't hate the move. If they're expecting him to be a guaranteed rotation member then I would definitely hate the move. I have to see what else they do with the pitching staff before I form a full opinion on it. I think he's more the swingman you describe, but I much rather have seen Rich Hill in that role instead. I'm not a big fan of collecting guys with 5 ERAs. I was hoping they'd do better in that regard. Better than the Richards/Perez caliber. I know Wacha was a lot better in his last 40 innings, but does that really mean that he has turned the corner? We heard about how Andriese had turned a corner with his new pitch mix ir whatever in Sept 2020 and he pitched well in April 2021 and was brutal afterwards. Wacha hasn't had a good season in quite some time.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 26, 2021 19:42:16 GMT -5
Great fit - hard throwing (averaging 94 fastball) strike-out/flyball pitcher will work perfectly with this team's poor infield defense. Perfect 6th man type with some upside.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 26, 2021 19:42:55 GMT -5
Scanning through his stats from last year, there's not a lot to latch onto. He was mostly a starter but was bad in the first inning (.852 oOPS), so it's not like he was good and then tired late. Indeed, he was much worse in 6 relief appearances than in 23 starts. He was really good vs. 7- and 9-hole hitters but terrible vs. 8-hole hitters. He was much better the third time through the order than the first two (and best from pitches 51 to 75) -- it's just a matter of getting that far! I guess what that means is when he was good, he was really good. His best work by far was on 6+ days of rest, so maybe they're just going to pitch him once a week? (Not on Sunday though, as he was bad in day games.) He was actually a lot better (at least in terms of oOPS) vs. teams with winning records than vs. losing teams. Finally, he was great with Angel Hernandez behind the plate! Of the umps he's pitched to more than once in his career, Doug Eddings, Jerry Layne, and Mark Ripperger have been kindest to him.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 19:46:55 GMT -5
If wacha is just a potential 5th starter insurance/swing guy in case houck and or Whitlock don't take the rotation as expected then I don't hate the move. If they're expecting him to be a guaranteed rotation member then I would definitely hate the move. I have to see what else they do with the pitching staff before I form a full opinion on it. I think he's more the swingman you describe, but I much rather have seen Rich Hill in that role instead. I'm not a big fan of collecting guys with 5 ERAs. I was hoping they'd do better in that regard. Better than the Richards/Perez caliber. I know Wacha was a lot better in his last 40 innings, but does that really mean that he has turned the corner? We heard about how Andriese had turned a corner with his new pitch mix ir whatever in Sept 2020 and he pitched well in April 2021 and was brutal afterwards. Wacha hasn't had a good season in quite some time. I'd imagine the money paid for wacha wouldn't stop them from also going after rich hill but then thatd be having 2 guys with limited upside on the staff for basically the same role I suppose.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 26, 2021 19:51:13 GMT -5
I think he's more the swingman you describe, but I much rather have seen Rich Hill in that role instead. I'm not a big fan of collecting guys with 5 ERAs. I was hoping they'd do better in that regard. Better than the Richards/Perez caliber. I know Wacha was a lot better in his last 40 innings, but does that really mean that he has turned the corner? We heard about how Andriese had turned a corner with his new pitch mix ir whatever in Sept 2020 and he pitched well in April 2021 and was brutal afterwards. Wacha hasn't had a good season in quite some time. I'd imagine the money paid for wacha wouldn't stop them from also going after rich hill but then thatd be having 2 guys with limited upside on the staff for basically the same role I suppose. They had Perez and Richards last year, a lefty and a righty, so I think that Wacha and perhaps Hill, who is better than Wacha and certainly would be a better bullpen lefty than Perez was, wou look d fit. And they'd still need to replace E-Rod with a legit 2 or 3 starter. I'd want that depth in case of injuries plus I like easing Houck and Whitlock into the rotation.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 19:59:30 GMT -5
I'd imagine the money paid for wacha wouldn't stop them from also going after rich hill but then thatd be having 2 guys with limited upside on the staff for basically the same role I suppose. They had Perez and Richards last year, a lefty and a righty, so I think that Wacha and perhaps Hill, who is better than Wacha and certainly would be a better bullpen lefty than Perez was, wou look d fit. And they'd still need to replace E-Rod with a legit 2 or 3 starter. I'd want that depth in case of injuries plus I like easing Houck and Whitlock into the rotation. True replace richards and perez with wacha and hill still makes sense. I'm not entirely sure they'd necessarily need to replace erod as sale does that in a way. Not saying that's the avenue I'd necessarily want them to go but basically sale/Houck/Whitlock should theoretically be a sufficient replacement for erod should they not sign a guy like stroman or find a trade Bloom likes for a legit middle rotation guy.
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cheers
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Post by cheers on Nov 26, 2021 20:05:40 GMT -5
Count me as a solid meh... Put me down for sub-meh. Hopefully he is cheep-cheep.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 26, 2021 20:19:13 GMT -5
They had Perez and Richards last year, a lefty and a righty, so I think that Wacha and perhaps Hill, who is better than Wacha and certainly would be a better bullpen lefty than Perez was, wou look d fit. And they'd still need to replace E-Rod with a legit 2 or 3 starter. I'd want that depth in case of injuries plus I like easing Houck and Whitlock into the rotation. True replace richards and perez with wacha and hill still makes sense. I'm not entirely sure they'd necessarily need to replace erod as sale does that in a way. Not saying that's the avenue I'd necessarily want them to go but basically sale/Houck/Whitlock should theoretically be a sufficient replacement for erod should they not sign a guy like stroman or find a trade Bloom likes for a legit middle rotation guy. If you listen to what Bloom says you come away with the sense that it makes more sense to think about the pitching staff in terms of the question "How are we going to put together 1400 innings?" rather than "How are we going to put together 5 starters and 8 relievers?"
Last season their IP leaders were:
Eovaldi - 182 Rodriguez - 158 Pivetta - 155 Richards - 137 Perez - 114 Whitlock - 73 Houck - 69
Sale threw 42. So between him, Whitlock, and Houck you might hope to get another 200 IP. That could indeed replace Rodriguez and then some, in theory, and Wacha could replace some of those Richards/Perez innings. But it's very unlikely everyone's going to be healthy all season, and all in all this looks like just treading water to me, and would lean to an uncomfortable degree on Eovaldi repeating his career year performance. I think they really need another solid 150 IP pitcher; maybe Stroman, maybe a trade target...
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Post by manfred on Nov 26, 2021 20:23:05 GMT -5
I mean… I know this is the wrong crew to say this to, but I just have a far harder time rooting for a journeyman pitcher on a 1-year contract than I would for ERod. I know, the money is totally different, but… I can’t warm to the Renfroes, Richards, Wachas of the world.
When I was young, I worked in a big chain bookstore. Our general manager told me on the first day that we don’t sell books, we sell barcodes. This iteration of the Sox seem to see players as barcodes.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 20:29:13 GMT -5
True replace richards and perez with wacha and hill still makes sense. I'm not entirely sure they'd necessarily need to replace erod as sale does that in a way. Not saying that's the avenue I'd necessarily want them to go but basically sale/Houck/Whitlock should theoretically be a sufficient replacement for erod should they not sign a guy like stroman or find a trade Bloom likes for a legit middle rotation guy. If you listen to what Bloom says you come away with the sense that it makes more sense to think about the pitching staff in terms of the question "How are we going to put together 1400 innings?" rather than "How are we going to put together 5 starters and 8 relievers?"
Last season their IP leaders were:
Eovaldi - 182 Rodriguez - 158 Pivetta - 155 Richards - 137 Perez - 114 Whitlock - 73 Houck - 69
Sale threw 42. So between him, Whitlock, and Houck you might hope to get another 200 IP. That could indeed replace Rodriguez and then some, in theory, and Wacha could replace some of those Richards/Perez innings. But it's very unlikely everyone's going to be healthy all season, and all in all this looks like just treading water to me, and would lean to an uncomfortable degree on Eovaldi repeating his career year performance. I think they really need another solid 150 IP pitcher; maybe Stroman, maybe a trade target...
I'd throw in seabold, groome, wincowski, maybe Bello to that argument as well. But that's still too many questions for me to really feel comfortable with. I do think they need a guy like stroman maybe gray or a trade as well as another one year deal type of guy like rich hill or Pineda. I'll wait to really have much feelings on the wacha move until we see what other moves Bloom has up his sleeves.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 26, 2021 20:36:40 GMT -5
I mean… I know this is the wrong crew to say this to, but I just have a far harder time rooting for a journeyman pitcher on a 1-year contract than I would for ERod. I know, the money is totally different, but… I can’t warm to the Renfroes, Richards, Wachas of the world. When I was young, I worked in a big chain bookstore. Our general manager told me on the first day that we don’t sell books, we sell barcodes. This iteration of the Sox seem to see players as barcodes. I'm not entirely sure why you threw renfroe into that group seeing how richards and now wacha are basically just one year and honestly hopefully average players while renfroe if used correctly has proven to be an above average piece but I agree with your overall point that it is harder to root for a guy like wacha over erod who we watched blossom into a good starting pitcher and it's easier to root for guys we watch for years and come to know.
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