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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 24, 2021 13:37:37 GMT -5
Now here's a guy that gets my wheels turning. He'd be a great plug in at 2nd base, and has the versatility to play all around the field if someone went down. As stated, they want pitching, I wonder if a 3 teamer with Oakland or Cincy could accomplish that
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Post by soxinsf on Dec 24, 2021 19:24:48 GMT -5
Now here's a guy that gets my wheels turning. He'd be a great plug in at 2nd base, and has the versatility to play all around the field if someone went down. As stated, they want pitching, I wonder if a 3 teamer with Oakland or Cincy could accomplish that Had some good years with the Mets. Fell off badly in 2021. So, a large element of risk. If it takes one of Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Groome, Song, Bello, It will not happen. Feldman and Winchofski or a couple of equivalents, then sure. Even if McNeil turns out to be Danny Santana in drag, we are not likely to be kicking the FO.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 24, 2021 19:31:25 GMT -5
Now here's a guy that gets my wheels turning. He'd be a great plug in at 2nd base, and has the versatility to play all around the field if someone went down. As stated, they want pitching, I wonder if a 3 teamer with Oakland or Cincy could accomplish that Had some good years with the Mets. Fell off badly in 2021. So, a large element of risk. If it takes one of Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Groome, Song, Bello, It will not happen. Feldman and Winchofski or a couple of equivalents, then sure. Even if McNeil turns out to be Danny Santana in drag, we are not likely to be kicking the FO. He had 1 bad season and is Arb 1, that's extremely minimal risk. Bloom would trade Groome or Song for him in a heartbeat. Song has quite literally 0 trade value
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Post by soxinsf on Dec 24, 2021 21:09:59 GMT -5
Had some good years with the Mets. Fell off badly in 2021. So, a large element of risk. If it takes one of Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Groome, Song, Bello, It will not happen. Feldman and Winchofski or a couple of equivalents, then sure. Even if McNeil turns out to be Danny Santana in drag, we are not likely to be kicking the FO. He had 1 bad season and is Arb 1, that's extremely minimal risk. Bloom would trade Groome or Song for him in a heartbeat. Song has quite literally 0 trade value Hard to say anything constructive about Song. In floor and ceiling terms, his floor is zero and his ceiling, if you believe the hype, his ceiling is 6. The Mets would have no interest in him. Groome is entirely a different kettle of fish. His late 2021 performance suggests that he has a future. But, if the Mets are looking for pitching, they are going to want someone who looks like a contributor in 2022, not someone who may have potential.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 24, 2021 22:58:42 GMT -5
He had 1 bad season and is Arb 1, that's extremely minimal risk. Bloom would trade Groome or Song for him in a heartbeat. Song has quite literally 0 trade value Hard to say anything constructive about Song. In floor and ceiling terms, his floor is zero and his ceiling, if you believe the hype, his ceiling is 6. The Mets would have no interest in him. Groome is entirely a different kettle of fish. His late 2021 performance suggests that he has a future. But, if the Mets are looking for pitching, they are going to want someone who looks like a contributor in 2022, not someone who may have potential. If they could get a top 30 prospect for Song, they'd do it tomorrow. He's rule 5 eligible next year, and the only uniform he's worn is a Navy one. Really don't want to turn this into a Noah conversation, and that's why I said it could be a 3 teamer. Boston doesn't match-up with the Mets needs
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Post by soxaddict on Dec 25, 2021 22:43:46 GMT -5
Now here's a guy that gets my wheels turning. He'd be a great plug in at 2nd base, and has the versatility to play all around the field if someone went down. As stated, they want pitching, I wonder if a 3 teamer with Oakland or Cincy could accomplish that McNeil would be a great fit, IMO. Probably won't be popular but I wouldn't be shocked to see Bloom move Sale. McNeil is cheap and under control for three more years. Sale is owed $85M over the next three years and Cohen could care less about the cash. Going in to the next off-season, Bloom would basically be starting with a blank canvas with Barnes being the only player with a guaranteed contract, and assuming Xander opts out. I personally wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 25, 2021 23:26:09 GMT -5
Now here's a guy that gets my wheels turning. He'd be a great plug in at 2nd base, and has the versatility to play all around the field if someone went down. As stated, they want pitching, I wonder if a 3 teamer with Oakland or Cincy could accomplish that McNeil would be a great fit, IMO. Probably won't be popular but I wouldn't be shocked to see Bloom move Sale. McNeil is cheap and under control for three more years. Sale is owed $85M over the next three years and Cohen could care less about the cash. Going in to the next off-season, Bloom would basically be starting with a blank canvas with Barnes being the only player with a guaranteed contract, and assuming Xander opts out. I personally wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe Bloom deals sale in a trade for mcneil if a guy like Mauricio is also coming back. Otherwise that seems a very lopsided deal. Sale isn't likely to be going anywhere.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 25, 2021 23:31:55 GMT -5
McNeil would be a great fit, IMO. Probably won't be popular but I wouldn't be shocked to see Bloom move Sale. McNeil is cheap and under control for three more years. Sale is owed $85M over the next three years and Cohen could care less about the cash. Going in to the next off-season, Bloom would basically be starting with a blank canvas with Barnes being the only player with a guaranteed contract, and assuming Xander opts out. I personally wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe Bloom deals sale in a trade for mcneil if a guy like Mauricio is also coming back. Otherwise that seems a very lopsided deal. Sale isn't likely to be going anywhere. Yeah. I'd like to see the Sox get in on McNeil's bat at 2b - he'd be an ideal addition, but the Sox can't spare Sale, nor Houck or Whitlock, one of whom I'd think the Mets would want. Unless there is a 3 way trade I dont see the Sox and Mets lining up in a trade.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 26, 2021 9:05:06 GMT -5
Maybe Bloom deals sale in a trade for mcneil if a guy like Mauricio is also coming back. Otherwise that seems a very lopsided deal. Sale isn't likely to be going anywhere. Yeah. I'd like to see the Sox get in on McNeil's bat at 2b - he'd be an ideal addition, but the Sox can't spare Sale, nor Houck or Whitlock, one of whom I'd think the Mets would want. Unless there is a 3 way trade I dont see the Sox and Mets lining up in a trade. If the Red Sox flipped prospects for pitching, I'd just assume the sox go ahead and keep the pitching instead of McNeil but personally I'm not a huge fan of McNeill anyway, so maybe that's just me.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 26, 2021 11:44:24 GMT -5
Yeah. I'd like to see the Sox get in on McNeil's bat at 2b - he'd be an ideal addition, but the Sox can't spare Sale, nor Houck or Whitlock, one of whom I'd think the Mets would want. Unless there is a 3 way trade I dont see the Sox and Mets lining up in a trade. If the Red Sox flipped prospects for pitching, I'd just assume the sox go ahead and keep the pitching instead of McNeil but personally I'm not a huge fan of McNeill anyway, so maybe that's just me. I was thinking the same thing. I think the Sox would rather have an A's starter than McNeil. I like McNeil's LH bat. He might win a batting title playing at Fenway, but I wouldnt surrender Sale, Houck, or Whitlock for him so I dont see how that works. Plus, even though I like his bat, he really wasn't good last year and got into it with Lindor over his failure to properly shift defensively repeatedly, so I really wouldnt risk giving up the pitching that the Mets want that the Sox need.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 27, 2021 13:40:18 GMT -5
Had some good years with the Mets. Fell off badly in 2021. So, a large element of risk. If it takes one of Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Groome, Song, Bello, It will not happen. Feldman and Winchofski or a couple of equivalents, then sure. Even if McNeil turns out to be Danny Santana in drag, we are not likely to be kicking the FO. He had 1 bad season and is Arb 1, that's extremely minimal risk. Bloom would trade Groome or Song for him in a heartbeat. Song has quite literally 0 trade value He's only had two seasons with 120 or more games, one good and one bad. There's a bunch of risk there, especially because he's turning 30 at arb 1.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 27, 2021 15:12:20 GMT -5
He had 1 bad season and is Arb 1, that's extremely minimal risk. Bloom would trade Groome or Song for him in a heartbeat. Song has quite literally 0 trade value He's only had two seasons with 120 or more games, one good and one bad. There's a bunch of risk there, especially because he's turning 30 at arb 1. His 162 game avg puts him at 5 WAR. If he performed based on that average, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't at Fenway, you're looking at the 2nd best 2nd baseman the team's had in 50 years.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 27, 2021 15:30:44 GMT -5
He's only had two seasons with 120 or more games, one good and one bad. There's a bunch of risk there, especially because he's turning 30 at arb 1. His 162 game avg puts him at 5 WAR. If he performed based on that average, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't at Fenway, you're looking at the 2nd best 2nd baseman the team's had in 50 years. I've come around on the idea of McNeill a bit but as with any acquisition it's how much would it cost? If the Mets are asking for a package in line with what a 3+ WAR player who has 3 controllable years left then I think we're talking a package I wouldn't be on board with. If it's closer to the price to buy low on a guy who just had a down year and maybe they're down on then sure I could get behind that.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 27, 2021 16:41:38 GMT -5
Two concerns.
One is whether he's enough of a troublemaker that they're willing to trade him. Do we want that? Two is whether last season is more like what he's going to be going forward that they're willing to trade him. Do we want that?
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Post by jmei on Dec 27, 2021 17:52:50 GMT -5
Does seem more like a Bloom acquisition than, say, Correa.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 28, 2021 9:19:26 GMT -5
He's only had two seasons with 120 or more games, one good and one bad. There's a bunch of risk there, especially because he's turning 30 at arb 1. His 162 game avg puts him at 5 WAR. If he performed based on that average, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't at Fenway, you're looking at the 2nd best 2nd baseman the team's had in 50 years. He has played in 63, 133, 52 and 120 games over the last four years in the MLB. So while using 162 game stats isn't at Cordero level, it's still not a good way to look at him. Even using 150 would be rather useless. Age 30 for arb 1 is very much on the older side and his worst season by far at age 29 isn't a good sign. There's a bunch of risk there. Now I haven't looked at reasons why he sucked last year. Maybe he's a good buy low candidate, he's just not a guy that doesn't carry risk. Especially if you think you're trading for a 5 war player. Steamers has him at 1.5 fwar. Now I can certainly see that being crazy low given his two partial seasons. Yet why doesn't last year worry you in the non steriod era? Age 30, 31 and 32 aren't peak level years for most players anymore.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 28, 2021 10:18:23 GMT -5
His 162 game avg puts him at 5 WAR. If he performed based on that average, and there's no reason to think he wouldn't at Fenway, you're looking at the 2nd best 2nd baseman the team's had in 50 years. He has played in 63, 133, 52 and 120 games over the last four years in the MLB. So while using 162 game stats isn't at Cordero level, it's still not a good way to look at him. Even using 150 would be rather useless. Age 30 for arb 1 is very much on the older side and his worst season by far at age 29 isn't a good sign. There's a bunch of risk there. Now I haven't looked at reasons why he sucked last year. Maybe he's a good buy low candidate, he's just not a guy that doesn't carry risk. Especially if you think you're trading for a 5 war player. Steamers has him at 1.5 fwar. Now I can certainly see that being crazy low given his two partial seasons. Yet why doesn't last year worry you in the non steriod era? Age 30, 31 and 32 aren't peak level years for most players anymore. You seem to hate everything, so I'm not surprised you're out on McNeil
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 28, 2021 10:53:29 GMT -5
Alright, so what do the Red Sox have to offer the Mets that isn't "too much" to pay that they'd be interested in? I would think they want pitching but the Sox have no major league ready pitching to spare, that I can think of anyways.
I'd think maybe Duran might be of interest to the Mets? I'm not suggesting trade Duran to the Mets for McNeil. I'm just spitballing, trying to think of....how can the Sox acquire McNeil in a realistic trade that fits both teams' needs without putting the Sox in a bad position?
I have no idea, so I thought I'd ask the question. My initial thought is that McNeil would be a good fit for the Sox, but is hardly a slam dunk, based on his age, the team chemistry disruptive issues based on messing up defensive positioning assignments, and the unimpressive season on offense that he had last year. You can't give up too much for a guy like that, but the guy could be a solid .300 hitting bat toward the top of the lineup lending a needed LH bat while playing a position of need and under team control for 3 seasons.
A guy like that has a lot of risk which is why I would think Duran would be a match for the Mets, given his even higher ceiling/lower floor risk than McNeil and his 6 years of control. Maybe a good bullpen arm from the Mets evens that out. I think the Mets can use an OF more than an infielder.
Anybody have a realistic idea of an actual trade between the Mets and Sox that is balanced and makes sense for both teams?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 29, 2021 13:58:46 GMT -5
He has played in 63, 133, 52 and 120 games over the last four years in the MLB. So while using 162 game stats isn't at Cordero level, it's still not a good way to look at him. Even using 150 would be rather useless. Age 30 for arb 1 is very much on the older side and his worst season by far at age 29 isn't a good sign. There's a bunch of risk there. Now I haven't looked at reasons why he sucked last year. Maybe he's a good buy low candidate, he's just not a guy that doesn't carry risk. Especially if you think you're trading for a 5 war player. Steamers has him at 1.5 fwar. Now I can certainly see that being crazy low given his two partial seasons. Yet why doesn't last year worry you in the non steriod era? Age 30, 31 and 32 aren't peak level years for most players anymore. You seem to hate everything, so I'm not surprised you're out on McNeil I'm not out on McNeil, I just don't see a no risk 5 war player like you do. I'm in if he's a buy low candidate, not a buy high candidate. If Bloom can get another pitcher, a Nick Pivetta for McNeil trade could make sense.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 30, 2021 14:19:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I wouldn't mind plugging him in for the right price, but I don't see how anyone could possibly say he doesn't come with some risk. If you look at his career line, he's almost certainly not as good as his 2019 nor as bad as his 2021. The question is where does he fall in between? If he's 2018/2020 McNeil, that's a damn good player. Thing is, 2018/2020 McNeil isn't halfway between the two outlier seasons, so I wouldn't necessarily count on that.
Pretty good potential option if the fit is there, but I think it's more of a play depending on how everything else falls.
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Post by jdb on Dec 31, 2021 11:24:01 GMT -5
I wouldn’t mind McNeil depending on the cost but think Tony Kemp could be much cheaper and a better option. Pretty even splits and could hit lead off and lengthen the lineup a little with Verdugo moving down.
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Post by soxaddict on Jan 2, 2022 4:57:40 GMT -5
Maybe Bloom deals sale in a trade for mcneil if a guy like Mauricio is also coming back. Otherwise that seems a very lopsided deal. Sale isn't likely to be going anywhere. Yeah. I'd like to see the Sox get in on McNeil's bat at 2b - he'd be an ideal addition, but the Sox can't spare Sale, nor Houck or Whitlock, one of whom I'd think the Mets would want. Unless there is a 3 way trade I dont see the Sox and Mets lining up in a trade. I don't think a McNeil - Sale swap is that lopsided when you take into consideration that Sale is going into his age 33 season, his first full season after TJ surgery and still owed $85M. McNeil will count $2.5M against the LTT in 2022 compared to Sale at $25.6M. IMO, there's enough uncertainty with Sale, that it could be worth it to upgrade other needs with the money saved. Hypothetically, the Sox could then sign Suzuki, maybe Brad Miller to platoon with Dalbec and maybe Matthew Boyd with the money saved by moving Sale. And even if they miss out on Suzuki, they could sign McCutchen who absolutely killed LHP last year (.293/.405/.622/1.027).
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2022 14:52:31 GMT -5
How can anyone mention Sale's name when talking about McNeil? That's crazy talk. McNeil is almost 30 and is projected for 1.5 fWAR. I'd consider trading a single prospect in the 15-20 range, but I'm really not even that interested anyway.
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Post by soxaddict on Jan 2, 2022 19:18:00 GMT -5
How can anyone mention Sale's name when talking about McNeil? That's crazy talk. McNeil is almost 30 and is projected for 1.5 fWAR. I'd consider trading a single prospect in the 15-20 range, but I'm really not even that interested anyway. If you're going by projections, wouldn't McNeill be a significant upgrade to Arroyo? Arroyo is projected for 0.5 WAR. Hypothetically, If Sale was traded and they signed Rodon that would also be an upgrade going by projections. Rodon is projected for 3.8 WAR, and the highest projected AAV I've seen is $20M per. Are they better off with Sale at $25.6M (3.3 WAR) or McNeil $2.5M (1.5 WAR) and Rodon $20M (3.8 WAR)? Now if they LTT is of no concern, then sure keep Sale, and sign whatever else. But, I don't believe that will be the case and I feel like Sale's money could be put to better use.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 2, 2022 19:20:14 GMT -5
How can anyone mention Sale's name when talking about McNeil? That's crazy talk. McNeil is almost 30 and is projected for 1.5 fWAR. I'd consider trading a single prospect in the 15-20 range, but I'm really not even that interested anyway. If you're going by projections, wouldn't McNeill be a significant upgrade to Arroyo? Arroyo is projected for 0.5 WAR. Hypothetically, If Sale was traded and they signed Rodon that would also be an upgrade going by projections. Rodon is projected for 3.8 WAR, and the highest projected AAV I've seen is $20M per. Are they better off with Sale at $25.6M (3.3 WAR) or McNeil $2.5M (1.5 WAR) and Rodon $20M (3.8 WAR)? Now if they LTT is of no concern, then sure keep Sale, and sign whatever else. But, I don't believe that will be the case and I feel like Sale's money could be put to better use. They wouldn't be trading for JBJ if they needed the money for better use.
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