SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
4/15/-4/18 Red Sox vs. Twins Series Thread
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 16, 2022 6:18:09 GMT -5
I can never understand the Barnes hate. He might not fit your definition of elite or closer or whatever. But,here are his percentile rankings for his last five complete seasons in the big leagues: xwOBA/xERA 2016 39 2017 84 2018 88 2019 88 (2020 26 2021 98 He strikes out a ton of dudes, doesn't allow much hard contact and has done so often while being leaned on a little too heavily/facing tough lineups/etc. It's possible he might be on the decline since he can't hit 97 with the same FB spin, but before this last appearance in 2022: he faced 7 batters, allowed 1 hit and no walks while getting 6 outs and 2 by way of K. Not bad. I don't think you need to do a deep metric dive to determine people's frustration (i wouldn't call it hate) for Barnes. He walks too many guys, it is fairly simple to me. There are periods of elite stuff that skew the numbers you have quoted. He is very inconsistent and has been for his time on the Sox. I was a big backer for a long time of his capabilities. Now, i kind of wish he wasn't on the team, as harsh as that is.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
|
Post by nomar on Apr 16, 2022 8:21:48 GMT -5
Pretty crazy that you can throw 5 relievers and make a serious case that Valdez most deserves to be on a major league roster. So 1 outing is going to determine who deserves to be on a major league roster? 2 guys came and and struck out the side so that might be a tough case to make. Well given that two of them struck out the side then my opinion must be based off of more than 1 game, right? Sawamura and Davis are just awful, Barnes is broken, and Brasier has lost his fastball. Unfortunately nobody is pounding on the door for reinforcements right now, but the pen needs some help IMO. I get that they were projected to be solid, but right now it feels like it’s Strahm, Whitlock, and Diekman on an island and everyone else forced you to just pray a ball finds a glove.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 16, 2022 8:23:30 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today."
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2022 8:39:56 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." Maybe, and I should say I don’t “hate” Barnes. He seems like a stand up guy. But I think it isn’t just giving up runs… it is partly how. Barnes is frustrating because you never know who is coming out of the pen. Is it lightning, or is it a guy who can’t find the plate, who seems afraid to throw the fastball, etc. I think Kimbrel is a good comp: his last year or so, he was a high wire act, and it was no fun. I have *never* bought into Barnes-as-closer. Even in the first half last year, I assumed he’d come back to Earth. There is also a sliding scale. I mean, if a 6th-inning guy gives up a run, these things do happen. But often when your closer gives up runs, it costs games.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Apr 16, 2022 8:41:42 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." Exactly why I get in on the game day threads when they are winning and not when they are losing. The negativity during a loss is too much to take sometimes but when they are winning it is a fun read. People expect perfection in a game that is measured in inches, the margin between ok, good and great is thin and these guys aren't robots.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Apr 16, 2022 8:46:37 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." Maybe, and I should say I don’t “hate” Barnes. He seems like a stand up guy. But I think it isn’t just giving up runs… it is partly how. Barnes is frustrating because you never know who is coming out of the pen. Is it lightning, or is it a guy who can’t find the plate, who seems afraid to throw the fastball, etc. I think Kimbrel is a good comp: his last year or so, he was a high wire act, and it was no fun. I have *never* bought into Barnes-as-closer. Even in the first half last year, I assumed he’d come back to Earth. There is also a sliding scale. I mean, if a 6th-inning guy gives up a run, these things do happen. But often when your closer gives up runs, it costs games. Barnes confidence wanes too much and he nibbles rather than attacks. He said as much last season when the analytics guys convinced him his stuff was good enough to just attack which led to his 1st half of dominance. When he attacks with that 96 mph heater then brings the plus hook he can be really tough.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Apr 16, 2022 8:57:17 GMT -5
So 1 outing is going to determine who deserves to be on a major league roster? 2 guys came and and struck out the side so that might be a tough case to make. Well given that two of them struck out the side then my opinion must be based off of more than 1 game, right? Sawamura and Davis are just awful, Barnes is broken, and Brasier has lost his fastball. Unfortunately nobody is pounding on the door for reinforcements right now, but the pen needs some help IMO. I get that they were projected to be solid, but right now it feels like it’s Strahm, Whitlock, and Diekman on an island and everyone else forced you to just pray a ball finds a glove. So you quoted me on your Valdez comment. Named 7 relievers and left him out of the convo. Interesting. The fact is these relievers are going to give up runs. It’s 7 games into the season. If you ever played the sport you would understand sometimes it takes time and you’re not going to always come out of spring training in mid season form. Trying to make statements about anything less then 10 games into the season is foolish.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 16, 2022 9:01:35 GMT -5
Maybe, and I should say I don’t “hate” Barnes. He seems like a stand up guy. But I think it isn’t just giving up runs… it is partly how. Barnes is frustrating because you never know who is coming out of the pen. Is it lightning, or is it a guy who can’t find the plate, who seems afraid to throw the fastball, etc. I think Kimbrel is a good comp: his last year or so, he was a high wire act, and it was no fun. I have *never* bought into Barnes-as-closer. Even in the first half last year, I assumed he’d come back to Earth. There is also a sliding scale. I mean, if a 6th-inning guy gives up a run, these things do happen. But often when your closer gives up runs, it costs games. Barnes confidence wanes too much and he nibbles rather than attacks. He said as much last season when the analytics guys convinced him his stuff was good enough to just attack which led to his 1st half of dominance. When he attacks with that 96 mph heater then brings the plus hook he can be really tough.and so....who's fault is that ? 8 years in the bigs !?!? i agree with the bold (and your overall point), but why die on the Barnes hill at this point ? It wasn't giving up runs that was so upsetting last night, it was walking the first 2 batters after the offense got them in striking distance. That is ridiculous. He sucked the life out of that game. Give up 2 bombs and show some heart. They probably would have lost as it is, but if he can't be counted on to throw strikes when he is down 2 runs, then the lack of trust is deserved. Been going on for 8 years. How many relievers can stick with 1 club for that long with his checkered history.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
|
Post by nomar on Apr 16, 2022 9:05:21 GMT -5
Well given that two of them struck out the side then my opinion must be based off of more than 1 game, right? Sawamura and Davis are just awful, Barnes is broken, and Brasier has lost his fastball. Unfortunately nobody is pounding on the door for reinforcements right now, but the pen needs some help IMO. I get that they were projected to be solid, but right now it feels like it’s Strahm, Whitlock, and Diekman on an island and everyone else forced you to just pray a ball finds a glove. So you quoted me on your Valdez comment. Named 7 relievers and left him out of the convo. Interesting. The fact is these relievers are going to give up runs. It’s 7 games into the season. If you ever played the sport you would understand sometimes it takes time and you’re not going to always come out of spring training in mid season form. Trying to make statements about anything less then 10 games into the season is foolish. How is that interesting? Your response is nothing but a pointless platitude. Show me how any of Sawamura, Davis, or Brasier are anything but warm bodies. Throw Valdez in there too. What statistically points to them being competent pitchers? They’re not. Barnes hopefully can rediscover himself, but it’s been an ugly ride since they changed the rule on the sticky stuff. But he’s been a solid 7th/8th inning guy for a decent part of his career and is getting paid almost 10M, so he’ll get his chances.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 16, 2022 9:10:12 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." Yeah, I wouldn't say hate. More like consternation. Barnes has me consternated.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 16, 2022 9:21:24 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." Yeah, I wouldn't say hate. More like consternation. Barnes has me consternated. as long as your not consternated while your constipated, you should be alright.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 16, 2022 10:02:59 GMT -5
It is early....so very early, so we are all just looking at what may be troubling (or not) the team. I am troubled about all of the various contract issue articles here and there - Bogaerts, Devers, Eovaldi. I am haunted by Lester and Mookie's contract sagas. I know it is new management (relatively), new approach - and baseball is what it is these days. But it would be nice to have players around that we love and respect for a long time. I do wonder how those three situations may impact the team - we shall see.
I am less troubled by inconsistent offense (at this point, anyway) - the team can get hot in a the blink of an eye. I will suspend concerns on Pivetta - it is early - but not Barnes, because this has been going on since the All Star break last year.
Let's see a nice victory today. Grumpy discussion boards are no fun.
I am also super excited by what is happening in our farm systems. It will be an interesting next 5 years or more, for sure.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Apr 16, 2022 12:41:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2022 13:10:47 GMT -5
Makes me laugh out loud every time. So classic.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
|
Post by radiohix on Apr 16, 2022 14:15:18 GMT -5
I think the Barnes hate is simpler than that: people hate relievers who give up runs sometimes. The expectation is that relievers never allow runs, like Koji or Kimbrel's peak seasons, and every time they do give up a run they're a bum. And Barnes has been on the team, sometimes giving up runs, for years now. Seriously, go through these threads throughout history: any time a short reliever so much as allows a hit, you'll get a "oh, Tazawa's not looking his sharpest today." No I just dislike him since he came up, same for Kimbrel. I'm not a fan of relievers who walk people
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 16, 2022 15:29:01 GMT -5
Xander really in a funk. Not seeing the ball well?
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 16, 2022 15:34:20 GMT -5
Xander really in a funk. Not seeing the ball well?
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 16, 2022 15:40:43 GMT -5
Liking Tanner very much, though.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2022 15:41:38 GMT -5
Son-of-a…. I turn on the game late to find it us ugly-alt-Brewer-jersey day. C’mon! Get thee behind my tv screen, Satan!
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 16, 2022 15:43:43 GMT -5
VeDUUUUUgo!!
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
|
Post by cdj on Apr 16, 2022 15:44:48 GMT -5
Is Alex Verdugo better than Mookie Betts? Im just a reporter asking the tough questions
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2022 15:45:28 GMT -5
I said it before… Verdugo looks like a different guy to me this year. His shoulders look a lot bigger. His power appears different, too, obv.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2022 15:50:11 GMT -5
In the years of Sonny Gray rumors and trades… I’ve always been happy he was not a Sox.
|
|
|
Post by kjkramer on Apr 16, 2022 15:51:19 GMT -5
Is Alex Verdugo better than Mookie Betts? Im just a reporter asking the tough questions I am not sure. He is playing it this year 100%. He might end up better?? I do know this... without question.... when considering salary in the equation.... Verdugo is WAY better!!
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 16, 2022 15:51:21 GMT -5
NESN really did hire Mazz for regular season games. He makes John Sterling sound competent. Thank goodness for the mute button.
|
|
|