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Post by pedey on Dec 8, 2022 7:25:31 GMT -5
So you’re telling me the Sox just committed 50 million to two relievers over the age of 35, but can’t spare one roster spot for Ward?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 8, 2022 11:47:02 GMT -5
So you’re telling me the Sox just committed 50 million to two relievers over the age of 35, but can’t spare one roster spot for Ward? Not much reason to think that Ward would have been a better relief option this year than Jansen or Martin. If he turns out to be better than either one, then clearly this would have been a dumb move. The team wasn't able to commit another 40 man spot to a player unlikely to contribute any time soon. I would have gone with Ward over Abreu, but perhaps they think Abreu can help this season.
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Post by azblue on Dec 8, 2022 22:17:44 GMT -5
I have not seen the minor league phase of the Rule 5 draft posted yet:
Minor League phase Round 1 A's -- RHP Joelvis Del Rosario (PIT) Pirates -- RHP Wei-Chieh Huang (SF) Reds -- RHP Kyle Glogoski (PHI) Royals -- SS Shervyen Newton (PHI) Tigers -- RHP Layne Henderson (HOU) Rockies -- LHP Eli Lingos (CLE) Marlins -- 3B Dane Myers (DET) Angels -- C Ronaldo Flores (SF) D-backs -- RHP Taylor Rashi (SF) Cubs -- LHP Jose Aquino (SEA) Twins -- OF Armani Smith (SF) Red Sox -- LHP Joe Jacques (PIT) White Sox -- RHP Ernesto Jaquez (HOU) Orioles -- RHP Alfred Vega (NYY) Brewers -- 2B Isaac Collins (COL) Rays -- RHP Hector Perez (BAL) Phillies -- SS Pedro Martinez (TB) Padres -- 3B Evan Mendoza (STL) Mariners -- 1B Francisco Tostado (SF) Guardians -- RHP Bradley Hanner (MIN) Blue Jays -- C Kekai Rios (LAD) Cardinals -- C Jose Alvarez (HOU) Yankees -- LHP Pablo Mujica (KC) Mets -- RHP Wilkin Ramos (PIT) Braves -- RHP Domingo Gonzalez (PIT) Astros -- LHP Max Roberts (SEA) Dodgers -- RHP Yon Castro (NYY)
Round 2 Pirates -- OF Joshua Palacios (WSH) Reds -- RHP Brooks Crawford (SF) Rockies -- RHP Nicholas Kuzia (DET) Marlins -- RHP Austin Roberts (PIT) Angels -- OF Jared Oliva (PIT) D-backs -- RHP Denny Larrondo (NYY) Cubs -- RHP Nick Burdi (SD) Twins -- SS Yohander Martinez (HOU) Red Sox -- RHP Ryan Miller (NYY) Orioles -- LHP Trey McGough (PIT) Rays -- RHP Enmanuel Mejia (PIT) Phillies -- RHP Yoniel Ramirez (SF) Mariners -- SS Logan Warmoth (TOR) Guardians -- C Michael Berglund (TB) Cardinals -- RHP Brandon Komar (SD) Mets -- OF Agustin Ruiz (SD) Astros -- LHP Bryan King (CHC) Dodgers -- RHP Carlo Reyes (PHI)
Round 3 Marlins -- RHP Cristian Charle (PIT) Angels -- SS Riley Unroe (SEA) D-backs -- RHP Peter Solomon (PIT) Cubs -- OF Jefferson Encarnacion (PHI) Twins -- INF Yoyner Fajardo (PIT) Orioles -- C Randy Florentino (TEX) Rays -- RHP Nelson Alvarez (NYY) Phillies -- RHP Zach Linginfelter (LAA) Guardians -- RHP Justin Lewis (AZ) Cardinals -- RHP Jose Martinez (LAD) Mets -- 2B Jonathan Arauz (BAL) Astros -- RHP Manuel Urias (PHI) Dodgers -- OF Josh Stowers (TEX)
Round 4 Angels -- RHP Willian Suarez (SF) Twins -- RHP Seth Nordlin (TEX) Phillies -- SS Cameron Cannon (BOS) Cardinals -- RHP Ryan Shreve (MIN) Mets -- SS Mateo Gil (COL) Astros -- LHP Luis Rodriguez (CHC)
Round 5 Phillies -- RHP Trey Cobb (NYM)
Round 6 Phillies -- C Cody Roberts (BAL)
Round 7 Phillies -- INF Oliver Dunn (NYY)
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 9, 2022 2:16:30 GMT -5
I assume that DD must have met Song in person and he must have been impressed.
Even if Song never pitches competitively again (which appears to be the most likely outcome), DD just bought some good PR for his team for $100k. He certainly knew how much buzz surrounded Song after he drafted him.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 9, 2022 9:50:31 GMT -5
I assume that DD must have met Song in person and he must have been impressed. Even if Song never pitches competitively again (which appears to be the most likely outcome), DD just bought some good PR for his team for $100k. He certainly knew how much buzz surrounded Song after he drafted him. And at the end of the day, isn't the PR what really counts?
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 9, 2022 22:25:34 GMT -5
DD gets Cameron Cannon. You have my blessings
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Post by manfred on Dec 9, 2022 22:31:40 GMT -5
DD gets Cameron Cannon. You have my blessings Still a bummer. Highest pick of 2019, another rough looking draft year.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Dec 10, 2022 11:09:06 GMT -5
Not protecting a cost effective relief pitcher named Ward is stupid. And if he can start? Not protecting Ward over Abreu made no sense. Plus the Sox were at 38 after not protecting Ward. So, they had the room.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Dec 10, 2022 12:31:03 GMT -5
I assume that DD must have met Song in person and he must have been impressed. Even if Song never pitches competitively again (which appears to be the most likely outcome), DD just bought some good PR for his team for $100k. He certainly knew how much buzz surrounded Song after he drafted him. Sox didn't want to lose one year of service time on Song. Now they've lost six. Song isn't on the Phillies' 40-man 4 years older, 4 years stronger, without any wear and tear on his arm
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Post by manfred on Dec 10, 2022 12:35:04 GMT -5
I assume that DD must have met Song in person and he must have been impressed. Even if Song never pitches competitively again (which appears to be the most likely outcome), DD just bought some good PR for his team for $100k. He certainly knew how much buzz surrounded Song after he drafted him. Sox didn't want to lose one year of service time on Song. Now they've lost six. Song isn't on the Phillies' 40-man 4 years older, 4 years stronger, without any wear and tear on his arm But many years away from pitching. I have no beef letting Song go. He was a lovely dream, but the odds against him are astronomical. Fair to move on.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 10, 2022 13:00:52 GMT -5
Sox didn't want to lose one year of service time on Song. Now they've lost six. Song isn't on the Phillies' 40-man 4 years older, 4 years stronger, without any wear and tear on his arm But many years away from pitching. I have no beef letting Song go. He was a lovely dream, but the odds against him are astronomical. Fair to move on. Ha yea he hasn't pitched in a game for 4 years. What am I missing here? If it was a good development tool to take a talented pitcher and have him not pitch in a meaningful game for years and years and then unleash them on the majors someone would have tried it already. It was fun dreaming on what song could be if he was granted a release from his military service but it never happened and quite frankly the ship has sailed.
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Post by manfred on Dec 10, 2022 13:02:35 GMT -5
But many years away from pitching. I have no beef letting Song go. He was a lovely dream, but the odds against him are astronomical. Fair to move on. Ha yea he hasn't pitched in a game for 4 years. What am I missing here? If it was a good development tool to take a talented pitcher and have him not pitch in a meaningful game for years and years and then unleash them on the majors someone would have tried it already. It was fun dreaming on what song could be if he was granted a release from his military service but it never happened and quite frankly the ship has sailed. Teehee… Navy pun appreciated.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,596
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Post by cdj on Dec 10, 2022 13:03:54 GMT -5
I assume that DD must have met Song in person and he must have been impressed. Even if Song never pitches competitively again (which appears to be the most likely outcome), DD just bought some good PR for his team for $100k. He certainly knew how much buzz surrounded Song after he drafted him. Sox didn't want to lose one year of service time on Song. Now they've lost six. Song isn't on the Phillies' 40-man 4 years older, 4 years stronger, without any wear and tear on his arm 4 years without developing a lick.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 10, 2022 13:06:25 GMT -5
Ha yea he hasn't pitched in a game for 4 years. What am I missing here? If it was a good development tool to take a talented pitcher and have him not pitch in a meaningful game for years and years and then unleash them on the majors someone would have tried it already. It was fun dreaming on what song could be if he was granted a release from his military service but it never happened and quite frankly the ship has sailed. Teehee… Navy pun appreciated. Haha wow believe me if you will but I actually didn't do that on purpose. Got a really good chuckle at you pointing it out to me ha.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 10, 2022 13:15:30 GMT -5
Thinking about Ward more and the more I do the more I feel like they gaffed here. Like if they don’t believe in him fine, I guess, but if a guy gets picked first in the Rule 5 then he clearly has some value to other orgs right? Like they would have traded something for him, vs say Darwinzon. So in that case they misread the market on their own guy pretty bad. Either that or they are supremely confident he will be returned.
Someone tell me if I’m interpreting this wrong.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 10, 2022 14:58:45 GMT -5
Thinking about Ward more and the more I do the more I feel like they gaffed here. Like if they don’t believe in him fine, I guess, but if a guy gets picked first in the Rule 5 then he clearly has some value to other orgs right? Like they would have traded something for him, vs say Darwinzon. So in that case they misread the market on their own guy pretty bad. Either that or they are supremely confident he will be returned. Someone tell me if I’m interpreting this wrong. I feel like people are making too much of the fact that he was taken first. The Rule 5 Draft is weird, the selections aren't always based upon who is the most talented (which is why some teams don't make picks at all) and pretty much everyone in the pool has warts of some kind. Maybe Ward was taken because he was just heads and shoulders more talented than the field, but it could've also been the Nationals' scouts getting a good look at him in a game and being able to afford being patient with him and keep him on the roster as they don't plan on being very competitive. So obviously him being picked means he's thought highly of to some degree, but I don't thin WHERE a player gets picked is all that relevant given what the player pool represents. I probably would've protected him but given the bumps in the road he's hit in his recovery, I'm not all that upset about it. Also, on the trade side, maybe they could've found a deal for him, but if you're a team and you know a guy is going to be unprotected, it might be more worthwhile to take the risk that you can pick him without sacrificing an asset. Especially if you're the Nationals, no point making the trade when you know for sure you can get him. So maybe they misread the market, or maybe the Nationals were the only team they found that was interested. I'm not going to act like I know either way.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 11, 2022 21:03:10 GMT -5
Fun fact: Each year there has been a Rule 5 Draft, exactly one player has been taken first overall.
Joking aside, I don't think the fact that Ward went first versus, say, fifth is at all meaningful. All it means is that the Nationals had him at the top of their board of guys available. We knew going in they were very likely going to lose Ward, and I'm sure they knew that.
Remember, the 40-man roster you need to look at is not the one on the day they made protection decisions, but the one they enter the year with. If they've got an easily DFA-able player on the roster on opening day (or worse, an open spot other than one vacated by a 60-day IL), then yeah, they screwed that up. You'd rather lose a guy in Rule 5 than on waivers.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 11, 2022 22:48:00 GMT -5
Yeah I guess my point is if a guy is good enough to go at the top wouldn’t other teams up there be interested in paying something to cut the line? I guess probably nothing good enough to give up the chance that he just gets returned to you anyways.
Appreciate the responses though! In any case it’s most likely a marginal thing it seems.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 11, 2022 23:47:12 GMT -5
The other thing to keep in mind is that they have to last the full year with the new team and stay on their roster otherwise they get returned. So while we may have lost him for now, more often than not these picks end up being returned so we haven't lost him for good yet. I think the last player of substance that we lost for good was Ryan Pressly?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2022 7:46:06 GMT -5
Yeah I guess my point is if a guy is good enough to go at the top wouldn’t other teams up there be interested in paying something to cut the line? I guess probably nothing good enough to give up the chance that he just gets returned to you anyways. Appreciate the responses though! In any case it’s most likely a marginal thing it seems. If you're assuming he's not coming back, 100%. But if the team thinks there's a good chance he doesn't stick, that's why you wouldn't just deal him. We'll see how that plays out.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 12, 2022 8:05:32 GMT -5
For reference, in 2020 there were 18 selections in the major league phase, only 6 stuck, one of which being Garrett Whitlock.
In 2019 3 out of 11.
In 2018 3 out of 14. There was a future All Star on this list, but he was traded and returned.
2017 4 out of 18. There was another All Star here and he was also returned.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 16, 2022 14:49:07 GMT -5
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Post by orion09 on Dec 16, 2022 15:08:29 GMT -5
That’s a shame. I would think that closes the book on Song.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 16, 2022 15:14:57 GMT -5
Seems awfully penny-wise/pound-foolish. This can't affect more than a handful of guys - just let them go out there and become celebrity athletes and do propaganda for the armed forces.
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Post by orion09 on Dec 16, 2022 15:20:21 GMT -5
Not to mention, the net result is likely that any athletes who have an outside shot at going pro will avoid West Point/Annapolis/ROTC
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