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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2022 7:09:28 GMT -5
Is Pham the craziest player we’ve had since Alfredo Aceves? Am I missing anyone in between? Not sure if Bobby V counts, but I would consider that a option. Not a player, but plenty of crazy in there. There was Carl Everett a decade before Aceves. Jurassic Carl and T-Rex Tommy. Oye.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 2, 2022 7:36:19 GMT -5
I'm kind of getting the thought that the Pham trade might be being eyed as an audition for next season and he may be in the plans if he can handle Boston as a DH/LF platoon partner. He's at .8 WAR, if he continues that pace and puts up a 1.2 WAR season and can do something similar next season he'd pretty easily be worth picking up his 6 Mil option rather than buying him out for 1.5. I don't always if ever put much stock in the ZIPS projections but they have him at a projected 1.7 WAR for 2023. He'd probably make a solid platoon partner with Verdugo/Duran. I've heard a number of people treat the 2023 mutual option as a real possibility to get picked up. Can you explain why you think that? As far as I'm concerned, his value would need to be ~$6-7.5 million and there would need to be little chance of a multi-year deal for both sides to agree on the option year. That feels like a very tight needle to thread.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 2, 2022 7:53:14 GMT -5
I'm kind of getting the thought that the Pham trade might be being eyed as an audition for next season and he may be in the plans if he can handle Boston as a DH/LF platoon partner. He's at .8 WAR, if he continues that pace and puts up a 1.2 WAR season and can do something similar next season he'd pretty easily be worth picking up his 6 Mil option rather than buying him out for 1.5. I don't always if ever put much stock in the ZIPS projections but they have him at a projected 1.7 WAR for 2023. He'd probably make a solid platoon partner with Verdugo/Duran. I've heard a number of people treat the 2023 mutual option as a real possibility to get picked up. Can you explain why you think that? As far as I'm concerned, his value would need to be ~$6-7.5 million and there would need to be little chance of a multi-year deal for both sides to agree on the option year. That feels like a very tight needle to thread. Not saying it's a guarantee, perhaps if Pham goes on a tear for the Sox he wouldn't want to take the option as it is mutual but at the same end his market wasn't exactly bustling last year so maybe he would be okay with picking up the option and guaranteeing himself another 6 Mil if the Sox and him both agree to pick up the option.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 2, 2022 8:05:13 GMT -5
I've heard a number of people treat the 2023 mutual option as a real possibility to get picked up. Can you explain why you think that? As far as I'm concerned, his value would need to be ~$6-7.5 million and there would need to be little chance of a multi-year deal for both sides to agree on the option year. That feels like a very tight needle to thread. Not saying it's a guarantee, perhaps if Pham goes on a tear for the Sox he wouldn't want to take the option as it is mutual but at the same end his market wasn't exactly bustling last year so maybe he would be okay with picking up the option and guaranteeing himself another 6 Mil if the Sox and him both agree to pick up the option. Gotcha. Guess we'll see!
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 2, 2022 8:50:57 GMT -5
JD’s OPS was around .950 now where is it .816. How bad has he been to drop that far? He has not been productive over the last couple months (ok, he is playing through a bad back). I agreed with trading him, and if Pham hits LHP, let him DH. He could not be much worse than JD has been lately.
JD’s 4 2/3 years have been outstanding and productive (except 2020’s 60 game excuse for a season). It is time to move him for prospects.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 2, 2022 9:17:20 GMT -5
Not sure if Bobby V counts, but I would consider that a option. Not a player, but plenty of crazy in there. There was Carl Everett a decade before Aceves. Jurassic Carl and T-Rex Tommy. Oye. Pham is more like Jurassic Carl than anyone they've brought in since. Wonder if he'll also refer to Shank as CHB for old times sake.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 2, 2022 9:26:19 GMT -5
I really don't get the narrative that Pham is a menace to society. Please. These kinds of things happened all the time before cameras were on 24/7. Spitting in an umpire's face is 10 times worse.
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alnipper
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Living the dream
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Post by alnipper on Aug 2, 2022 10:16:31 GMT -5
If Pham has a hot rest of the year the option is possible. Pham sure has fallen off a cliff this year.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 2, 2022 10:23:09 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Aug 2, 2022 10:30:49 GMT -5
Kind of a dumb article. To summarize: "This is a strange move for the Red Sox because, even though Pham is a helpful piece for them, they traded away Vazquez which makes them worse. Unless there are more moves to come, which there probably are."
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 2, 2022 10:37:11 GMT -5
Kind of a dumb article. To summarize: "This is a strange move for the Red Sox because, even though Pham is a helpful piece for them, they traded away Vazquez which makes them worse. Unless there are more moves to come, which there probably are." Yep the article is pretty pointless unless somehow the sox make no more moves but even then they should have just waited until after the deadline to post it.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 2, 2022 10:41:28 GMT -5
Also this is a bit of a LOL for Cincinnati. Presumably they were holding onto Pham in the hopes that they could get a prospect or two back for him. Clearly that didn't happen so they were like "all right fine, just take his salary and he's yours."
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 2, 2022 10:42:51 GMT -5
Kind of a dumb article. To summarize: "This is a strange move for the Red Sox because, even though Pham is a helpful piece for them, they traded away Vazquez which makes them worse. Unless there are more moves to come, which there probably are." Yep the article is pretty pointless unless somehow the sox make no more moves but even then they should have just waited until after the deadline to post it. That's not how journalism works lol
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cdj
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Posts: 14,532
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Post by cdj on Aug 2, 2022 10:44:03 GMT -5
Yep the article is pretty pointless unless somehow the sox make no more moves but even then they should have just waited until after the deadline to post it. That's not how journalism works lol Well what I read wasn’t really “journalism”, it was a pointless blog post
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 2, 2022 12:32:16 GMT -5
That's not how journalism works lol Well what I read wasn’t really “journalism”, it was a pointless blog post Ok cool, good for you! I will gladly defer to you as the arbiter of all things worthwhile.
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Post by jmei on Aug 2, 2022 12:33:12 GMT -5
Cut out the sniping. Thanks.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 2, 2022 18:10:03 GMT -5
I read Pham's backstory some years ago. He hasn't had an easy time making it. I always checked on him because it was an interesting read.
Maybe that is why he has been labeled prickly. Just not sure it will be great for us as his play has declined.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 3, 2022 9:35:20 GMT -5
A potential upside to this trade is if the benches clear between Boston and New York. Pham would be an asset in case anyone on the Yankees has to get Stockton slapped.
Bobby Dalbec could do it but he'd probably swing and miss.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 3, 2022 23:50:28 GMT -5
Here's an idea: depending on how far they are over the CBT right now, what if the PTBNL is a mid-range prospect plus Hill or Kique and it gets them under?
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Post by seamus on Aug 4, 2022 10:52:44 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think PTBNL trades usually involve the trading team giving the acquiring team a list of a few players and the acquiring team then picks one off that list whenever they end up closing the deal. The reporting indicated that the PTBNL wasn't expected to be notable, so I'd assume that there's no Major Leaguer on that list. It's an interesting idea, though.
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Post by bosox904 on Aug 4, 2022 11:01:48 GMT -5
Here's an idea: depending on how far they are over the CBT right now, what if the PTBNL is a mid-range prospect plus Hill or Kique and it gets them under? If I'm reading the rule correctly, a PTBNL cannot be a player in the majors. "9. If a "Player to Be Named Later" (PTBNL) is part of a trade, the PTBNL cannot be on an MLB Active List at any time beginning when the trade is executed (filed with the MLB office) up until when the trade is completed. A PTBNL can be either a specific player or the PTBNL can be selected from a list of players or a class of players as determined by the clubs (in writing) when the trade is executed" www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3524
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,860
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Post by mobaz on Aug 4, 2022 11:13:57 GMT -5
Here's an idea: depending on how far they are over the CBT right now, what if the PTBNL is a mid-range prospect plus Hill or Kique and it gets them under? If I'm reading the rule correctly, a PTBNL cannot be a player in the majors. "9. If a "Player to Be Named Later" (PTBNL) is part of a trade, the PTBNL cannot be on an MLB Active List at any time beginning when the trade is executed (filed with the MLB office) up until when the trade is completed. A PTBNL can be either a specific player or the PTBNL can be selected from a list of players or a class of players as determined by the clubs (in writing) when the trade is executed" www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3524I remember some silly Baseball Trivia article that said there once was a player traded for a PTBNL, and when it came around to completed the trade, he was instead returned and was thus traded for himself. Turns out per Wikipedia it's happened 4 times! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_to_be_named_later#Players_traded_for_themselves
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Post by Addam603 on Sept 14, 2022 10:59:06 GMT -5
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Post by natesp4 on Sept 14, 2022 12:15:35 GMT -5
I won't lose sleep over it, but this trade still confuses me. Pham was supposed to have negative value, I'm pretty sure trading nothing for him got rejected by the baseball trade values model saying it was an overpay by the Red Sox. Adding anything but a bag of balls just makes it even weirder to me.
That said, still a nice pickup and if they were over the CBT anyways, I have no real issue with the deal.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 14, 2022 13:00:32 GMT -5
Tommy Pham is getting paid like a 1 WAR player, and he's performing like a 1 WAR player. The odds are stacked heavily against Nick Northcut. It'd be a little but surprising if he was an average AA player next year as a 24 year old.
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