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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 5, 2022 13:09:48 GMT -5
So far he claiming that 5th spot. I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2022 13:15:18 GMT -5
So far he claiming that 5th spot. I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I am still amazed at penciling in Paxton. He will be 34 this year, has pitched 7 games in 3 years, and is currently throwing bullpens.
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Post by gator39 on Aug 5, 2022 13:39:44 GMT -5
Me too, are we really gonna pick up his $13 million option for next year? I'd much rather bring back Eovaldi.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 5, 2022 13:44:35 GMT -5
I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I am still amazed at penciling in Paxton. He will be 34 this year, has pitched 7 games in 3 years, and is currently throwing bullpens. Generally what happens when you have TJ surgery Throwing 95 today it seems. Recovery looks good to me. And to answer the question above you bet your ass they’ll pick up his option. It’s also not an either/or with Eovaldi. They can have both.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2022 13:50:40 GMT -5
I am still amazed at penciling in Paxton. He will be 34 this year, has pitched 7 games in 3 years, and is currently throwing bullpens. Generally what happens when you have TJ surgery Throwing 95 today it seems. Recovery looks good to me. And to answer the question above you bet your ass they’ll pick up his option. It’s also not an either/or with Eovaldi. They can have both. Well, in that case I don’t want to hear about injuries next year as an excuse. You get a guy who owns a vacation home on the IL, you know what you are in for.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 5, 2022 14:00:42 GMT -5
Generally what happens when you have TJ surgery Throwing 95 today it seems. Recovery looks good to me. And to answer the question above you bet your ass they’ll pick up his option. It’s also not an either/or with Eovaldi. They can have both. Well, in that case I don’t want to hear about injuries next year as an excuse. You get a guy who owns a vacation home on the IL, you know what you are in for. Plenty of high minors depth options for him if he goes down next year People aren’t saying *his* injury has been a factor this year. Injuries have been a major culprit for the team but nobody was banking on him for anything but gravy this year. It’s a perfectly valid claim to say injuries have impacted the teams performance this season, not an “excuse” If they have a bunch of people get injured next year then it can absolutely be an excuse for poor performance. If Paxton gets injured and that’s it then sure. But They should and already do have some contingency plans for him. And if he ends up healthy he’s an established mid-rotation guy
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 5, 2022 14:56:16 GMT -5
I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I am still amazed at penciling in Paxton. He will be 34 this year, has pitched 7 games in 3 years, and is currently throwing bullpens. That is no different than this site penciling in Bogaerts for 2023. Go to the 2023 tab. In addition to Bogaerts (I seriously doubt it), they have Seabold listed in their rotation and Winckowski, but not Crawford. That is why they could it a projection…..
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Post by Jimmy on Aug 7, 2022 1:09:30 GMT -5
So far he claiming that 5th spot. I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I haven’t seen anyone float this yet - call me crazy but if Wacha comes back and finishes the year the way he started, you have to consider extending him a QO, no?
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 7, 2022 1:58:30 GMT -5
I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I haven’t seen anyone float this yet - call me crazy but if Wacha comes back and finishes the year the way he started, you have to consider extending him a QO, no? Hmmm. I’d say no but not out of the question. Unlikely to pick up paxton and Qualify both Evo and Wacha.
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Post by alan on Aug 7, 2022 2:01:06 GMT -5
I think, he may actually be better than #5. Sale Paxton CRAWFORD Pivetta Winckowski, Bello, Murphy, Seabold IMO the bullpen needs Whitlock and Houck! As we have seen this year the 8th and 9th innings can not be left to second tier pitchers without disastrous results! I my 51 years as a Red Sox fan, it is inconceivable to loose as many games in the 8th and 9th as the Red Sox have this year! I wonder if Bloom would consider re-signing Wacha. He has certainly been outstanding this year. If he makes all 10 remaining starts, he would finish with 23 starts and roughly 120 innings which is certainly worth his $7,000,000, and he has been very effective so far this season. I haven’t seen anyone float this yet - call me crazy but if Wacha comes back and finishes the year the way he started, you have to consider extending him a QO, no? His advance metrics are HORRIBLE, giving him a QO would be mistake
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 7, 2022 8:13:46 GMT -5
I like Crawford, his stuff is really good. Just have to hope he keeps improving his command, that’s what gets him into trouble.
As far as the 2023 rotation he should be in it. People won’t agree with this but I’d go after Verlander on a large 2 year deal, which would expire when Sales contract does. I’d even try and get eovaldi back on a 2 year deal
I’m done with the pivetta experiment, people like to reference what we gave up for him but then ignore that he isn’t very good. I think he can flourish in the bullpen (flashed in last years playoffs).
Verlander Sale Eovaldi Paxton Crawford
Bullpen with Whitlock/Houck/Schreiber/Pivetta is a good start.
Can the finances work? Maybe, say Verlander gets 35 per year, eovaldi 16 mil per. Bogaerts + 5 if we can extend him. That’s + 56 mil netted against whatever money is coming off the books.
Clearly a high risk high reward rotation…. But we would have mata and bello and others as high end potential depth. Those deals would only overlap with 1 year of Devers extended years
Spitballing here
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 7, 2022 8:57:50 GMT -5
I like Crawford, his stuff is really good. Just have to hope he keeps improving his command, that’s what gets him into trouble. As far as the 2023 rotation he should be in it. People won’t agree with this but I’d go after Verlander on a large 2 year deal, which would expire when Sales contract does. I’d even try and get eovaldi back on a 2 year deal I’m done with the pivetta experiment, people like to reference what we gave up for him but then ignore that he isn’t very good. I think he can flourish in the bullpen (flashed in last years playoffs). Verlander Sale Eovaldi Paxton Crawford Bullpen with Whitlock/Houck/Schreiber/Pivetta is a good start. Can the finances work? Maybe, say Verlander gets 35 per year, eovaldi 16 mil per. Bogaerts + 5 if we can extend him. That’s + 56 mil netted against whatever money is coming off the books. Clearly a high risk high reward rotation…. But we would have mata and bello and others as high end potential depth. Those deals would only overlap with 1 year of Devers extended years Spitballing here God. I like when we talk big money to vets like Verlander to strengthen the club. It is risky, but necessary IMO. Crawford looks great, but the league will catch up with him, as they do with all pitchers. Can he sustain the level of pitching ? We will soon find out, because he has won a spot in the rotation for the foreseeable future.
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 7, 2022 9:09:01 GMT -5
I like Crawford, his stuff is really good. Just have to hope he keeps improving his command, that’s what gets him into trouble. As far as the 2023 rotation he should be in it. People won’t agree with this but I’d go after Verlander on a large 2 year deal, which would expire when Sales contract does. I’d even try and get eovaldi back on a 2 year deal I’m done with the pivetta experiment, people like to reference what we gave up for him but then ignore that he isn’t very good. I think he can flourish in the bullpen (flashed in last years playoffs). Verlander Sale Eovaldi Paxton Crawford Bullpen with Whitlock/Houck/Schreiber/Pivetta is a good start. Can the finances work? Maybe, say Verlander gets 35 per year, eovaldi 16 mil per. Bogaerts + 5 if we can extend him. That’s + 56 mil netted against whatever money is coming off the books. Clearly a high risk high reward rotation…. But we would have mata and bello and others as high end potential depth. Those deals would only overlap with 1 year of Devers extended years Spitballing here God. I like when we talk big money to vets like Verlander to strengthen the club. It is risky, but necessary IMO. Crawford looks great, but the league will catch up with him, as they do with all pitchers. Can he sustain the level of pitching ? We will soon find out, because he has won a spot in the rotation for the foreseeable future. Very and the risk would minimized for someone like Verlander because it’s only 2 years. The league will catch up to an extent but let’s remember he wasn’t great early and made adjustments. The K-rates are very real, he just needs to keep the walk rates down. Peripherals like him and honestly he has looked good with the eye test for over a month now. Hopefully he keeps it up but he has way more potential than seabold or winchowski
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Post by manfred on Aug 7, 2022 9:36:25 GMT -5
Verlander has an option with the Astros next year, so he might not even be an option. I wanted him badly this past year.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 7, 2022 12:20:53 GMT -5
I really wanted to go after Castillo this year. Obviously, he helps now. But, we need an ace to front the staff next year. DeGrom is gonna opt out. Hard to see anyone out-spending Cohen. Ohtani will be out there. Would be painful to give up what it would take.
Other option would be to play slow hand. Hope Bello and Kutter develop quickly. Try to build a dominant bullpen. Get a closer. Add Mata and Ward to young arms we have like; Whitlock, Hauck and Schroeder. Chaim will want to slow play it. Is ownership ok and Cora ok with that?
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Post by larrycook on Aug 7, 2022 12:37:30 GMT -5
If bello’s command and control improves, he could claim the 5th spit in the lineup next season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 7, 2022 18:39:37 GMT -5
Cost controlled potential starting pitchers ready or near ready:
Pivetta Houck Whitlock Winckowski Crawford Seabold Bello Ward Murphy Darwinzon (I said potential)
I doubt if finding another starter is a high priority this offseason.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 7, 2022 19:37:32 GMT -5
Cost controlled potential starting pitchers ready or near ready: Pivetta Houck Whitlock Winckowski Crawford Seabold Bello Ward Murphy Darwinzon (I said potential) I doubt if finding another starter is a high priority this offseason. Agreed, unless the price is right. I'm hoping we don't invest in C either and roll with Wong and McGuire; their bats should be weak, but passable, and their defense should be solid and boost the rotation. That'd open up a ton of money to put into the roster. Extend Devers, retain X (if the years and $ aren't crazy), bring in a top OF FA like Nimmo for RF, and bring back Hernandez (likely at a discount) for CF. Any extra cash can go towards pitching. I expect Sale, Paxton, and Whitlock to be impact starters next year. We should be able to find at least two decent back end starters out of Crawford, Winckowski, Bello, and Seabold, with the odd men out going to a long relief / spot start role out of the bullpen pending injuries or underperformance to any rotation guys. Guys like Walter and Mata could be up by the end of the year too if the depth is needed, so we're still not screwed if injuries set in. Internal options like Bazardo and German should be able to help the bullpen too.
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Post by juanpena on Aug 7, 2022 19:49:56 GMT -5
Cost controlled potential starting pitchers ready or near ready: Pivetta Houck Whitlock Winckowski Crawford Seabold Bello Ward Murphy Darwinzon (I said potential) I doubt if finding another starter is a high priority this offseason. Agreed, unless the price is right. I'm hoping we don't invest in C either and roll with Wong and McGuire; their bats should be weak, but passable, and their defense should be solid and boost the rotation. That'd open up a ton of money to put into the roster. Extend Devers, retain X (if the years and $ aren't crazy), bring in a top OF FA like Nimmo for RF, and bring back Hernandez (likely at a discount) for CF. Any extra cash can go towards pitching. I expect Sale, Paxton, and Whitlock to be impact starters next year. We should be able to find at least two decent back end starters out of Crawford, Winckowski, Bello, and Seabold, with the odd men out going to a long relief / spot start role out of the bullpen pending injuries or underperformance to any rotation guys. Guys like Walter and Mata could be up by the end of the year too if the depth is needed, so we're still not screwed if injuries set in. Internal options like Bazardo and German should be able to help the bullpen too. That would be nice, but it's WILDLY optimistic at best and probably unrealistic. In the past three seasons, the three have combined to throw 109 innings as starters, plus nine innings from Sale in the postseason. Paxton has never thrown more than 160 innings in a season and has hardly pitched since 2019. Whitlock got hurt once they tried to make him a starter. I think trying to make him a starter is the right thing, and I hope he can handle it, but nobody knows yet. Sale's most recent injury was obviously bad luck that could have happened to anyone, but he's hardly the picture of health.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 7, 2022 20:08:22 GMT -5
Agreed, unless the price is right. I'm hoping we don't invest in C either and roll with Wong and McGuire; their bats should be weak, but passable, and their defense should be solid and boost the rotation. That'd open up a ton of money to put into the roster. Extend Devers, retain X (if the years and $ aren't crazy), bring in a top OF FA like Nimmo for RF, and bring back Hernandez (likely at a discount) for CF. Any extra cash can go towards pitching. I expect Sale, Paxton, and Whitlock to be impact starters next year. We should be able to find at least two decent back end starters out of Crawford, Winckowski, Bello, and Seabold, with the odd men out going to a long relief / spot start role out of the bullpen pending injuries or underperformance to any rotation guys. Guys like Walter and Mata could be up by the end of the year too if the depth is needed, so we're still not screwed if injuries set in. Internal options like Bazardo and German should be able to help the bullpen too. That would be nice, but it's WILDLY optimistic at best and probably unrealistic. In the past three seasons, the three have combined to throw 109 innings as starters, plus nine innings from Sale in the postseason. Paxton has never thrown more than 160 innings in a season and has hardly pitched since 2019. Whitlock got hurt once they tried to make him a starter. I think trying to make him a starter is the right thing, and I hope he can handle it, but nobody knows yet. Sale's most recent injury was obviously bad luck that could have happened to anyone, but he's hardly the picture of health. Sale and Paxton (Edit: And Whitlock, lol) both had TJ in the past three years. Of course they haven't pitched much. That is a surgery that most people recovery fully from, though, and that most people do not need to get again. I also don't think it's at all likely that Whitlock hurt his hip because he was being used as a starter. I don't see any reason to expect greater than normal injury risk for Paxton and Whitlock next year, assuming Paxton's TJ recovery is successful, and that should be clear by the end of this year. I can see an argument for worrying about Sale, but a cracked rib and a line drive off the pinky aren't exactly things that you expect him to repeat. I'd be much more worried if he was having elbow pain again, but his arm seems as good as ever after TJ and to my knowledge he's had no pain.
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 8, 2022 8:14:09 GMT -5
At last, the Paxton Crawford comeback I've waited 20 years for. Oh wait, you mean--nevermind.
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 8, 2022 8:31:39 GMT -5
Can we stop considering Pivetta a good rotation piece? He is actually very bad. Career 5 era and 4.5 fip guy. And is going to be 30 he is not a good starter.
He had potential to be very good in the bullpen though
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Post by kwodes on Aug 8, 2022 8:52:35 GMT -5
Can we stop considering Pivetta a good rotation piece? He is actually very bad. Career 5 era and 4.5 fip guy. And is going to be 30 he is not a good starter. He had potential to be very good in the bullpen though I think Pivetta as a 5th starter is pretty solid. He's a super high-variance guy, but has the ability to shut down opposing lineups when on. I do agree though that him in a multi-inning relief role where his stuff can play up is tantalizing.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 8, 2022 8:54:26 GMT -5
Can we stop considering Pivetta a good rotation piece? He is actually very bad. Career 5 era and 4.5 fip guy. And is going to be 30 he is not a good starter. He had potential to be very good in the bullpen though I wouldn't call him "very bad", but he's definitely been inconsistent. His 2018 was a 3.52 xERA in 164 IP (2.8 fWAR) and his 2021 was a 3.81 xERA in 155 IP (2.1 fWAR). Those years were easily 3/4 starter level. This year has been mixed. He had a poor start, a great middle, and (so far) a poor end that have added up to a 4.49 xERA in 123.2 IP (1.5 fWAR). One thing he has done quite well, though, is stay healthy. If he were in the bullpen this team would have had a heck of a time finding quality starter innings.
I'd be open to shifting him to the bullpen next year if guys are healthy and performing well, but it would be hard to justify right now given the healthy arms.
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Post by manfred on Aug 9, 2022 9:48:26 GMT -5
The Sox are nuts if they go with Sale and Paxton as two of their five starters, especially if after Pivetta they go with kids. Those guys are made of glass AND have not pitched in so long it is impossible to know what you are getting. It is begging for mid-season pain.
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