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nomar
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Posts: 10,754
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Post by nomar on Jan 18, 2023 10:53:33 GMT -5
This seems like the absolute opposite logic. If they leave the roster alone right now there’s very little chance they’re in contention, so they’d be saving their money for likely nothing. I think what makes way more sense is to continue to fill the holes on the roster and then sell at the deadline to get back under the tax line, if they need to. Do you trust Chaim to get under the cap at the deadline? I don’t. Last year was the obvious year to do that and he didn’t for some reason. He gambled on the 25 or 30% chance the team would make the playoffs, and they didn’t. This year I would think/hope it’s a “no matter what you stay under” year.
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Post by seamus on Jan 18, 2023 11:00:48 GMT -5
This seems like the absolute opposite logic. If they leave the roster alone right now thereâs very little chance theyâre in contention, so theyâd be saving their money for likely nothing. I think what makes way more sense is to continue to fill the holes on the roster and then sell at the deadline to get back under the tax line, if they need to. Do you trust Chaim to get under the cap at the deadline? I donât. Last year was the obvious year to do that and he didnât for some reason. People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder).
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Post by manfred on Jan 18, 2023 11:52:51 GMT -5
Do you trust Chaim to get under the cap at the deadline? I donât. Last year was the obvious year to do that and he didnât for some reason. People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder). I will assume “dream” scenario here is based on given circumstances. An OF of Kiké, Duvall, and Yoshida is not really what my dreams are made of!
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jan 18, 2023 12:27:07 GMT -5
Do you trust Chaim to get under the cap at the deadline? I donât. Last year was the obvious year to do that and he didnât for some reason. People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder). Can't see why the Padres would need another outfielder with Tatis, Soto, and Grisham all in place starting on April 20th.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 18, 2023 12:43:20 GMT -5
People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder). I will assume “dream” scenario here is based on given circumstances. An OF of Kiké, Duvall, and Yoshida is not really what my dreams are made of! We're talking two guys over 30 coming off big injuries and Yoshida so generally I agree with your point, but hey, in 2021 (assuming 3 WAR for Yoshida) that would have been something like the 6th best outfield in baseball, so at least there's upside there.
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Post by seamus on Jan 18, 2023 12:46:16 GMT -5
People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder). I will assume “dream” scenario here is based on given circumstances. An OF of Kiké, Duvall, and Yoshida is not really what my dreams are made of! I mean, obviously it's under the given circumstances. The real dream scenario is that Jerry Dipoto goes crazy and trades us Julio Rodriguez for Ryan Brasier, but I try to stay a little grounded. I think that Masa/Hernandez/Duvall is a pretty good outfield (at least average production from all three is more unusual than people tend to think), and in this scenario it would also involve getting someone I view as an All-Star caliber shortstop. Hard not to see that as a good outcome. I did forget that Tatis' suspension only goes partway into April, but even so I'd think they'd welcome the opportunity to move Cronenworth back to 2nd, have Carpenter play 1st, and rotate Bogaerts, Tatis, and Soto through DH to keep them fresh.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jan 18, 2023 13:12:13 GMT -5
SOX STILL NEED SS no matter how you slice it Sox are best with Kiki CF Duval at corner And as far as shedding Verdugo, that is ridiculous unless you are being back a 2/3 starting pitcher. Having a good player or 2 in the bench is a good thing. Only Devers deserves 160 games. The Sox add a SS, play good defence, sale pitches, Bello and Casis emerge, stay somewhat healthy and the bullpen performs then they are in great shape.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 13:41:36 GMT -5
People keep saying that and I don't actually get it. 2023 is a way more logical year to get under because it's the repeater penalties that make a big financial difference (which is what the owners care about) because it pushes the timeline for when you need to reset next further down the line (when the CBT will have gone up a bit anyway, providing even more room). The argument about QO compensation from the lost free agents just doesn't seem compelling to me when the only way to potentially get under at the deadline last year was to sell off any chance at a playoff run, even assuming that anyone was actually interested in a clearly cooked JD. Anyway, my dream scenario would be for Kiké and Duvall to be in the outfield with Verdugo part of a trade with San Diego for Kim (Padres could use another outfielder). Can't see why the Padres would need another outfielder with Tatis, Soto, and Grisham all in place starting on April 20th. I'm sure it'll be at least passable because Tatis is 24 and he's a physical freak... but it's still kinda crazy to me that they paid Tatis $340 mil to be their franchise shortshop - and now with the 11 year Xander deal he's going to get pushed full-time to the outfield, where he's played only 27 career games. Like just from a standpoint of keeping him healthy, I would not love that if I'm a Padres fan.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 18, 2023 13:55:12 GMT -5
This interest in trading for Kim is beyond baffling to me, and I'm not going to get into one of the two reasons why the idea is shaky, since I've already made that complaint. I do think the guy will become a good player, perhaps a very good one.
Your number 4 prospect is a SS with an ETA of late this year.
A year behind him is a SS who is one of the best prospects in all of baseball.
So all you need at SS is a one-year stopgap (which may turn out to be 4 or 5 months). Elvis Andrus is a free agent and Joey Wendle is in his walk year for a lousy team, so there's no shortage of candidates for that.*
A very large part of Kim's trade value is his four years of team control -- of which we'd expect to use only two. Meanwhile, teams with a genuine need will be motivated to outbid you, wouldn't they?
So, why? How does this make sense?
* I promised not to point out that both guys were better than Kim last year, on a rate basis, all things considered.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 18, 2023 13:59:00 GMT -5
Kim has two years of control left. The Asian pros all get it written into their contract that they get released after their deal ends so they aren't subject to normal service time arbitration rules.
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Post by seamus on Jan 18, 2023 15:16:28 GMT -5
This interest in trading for Kim is beyond baffling to me, and I'm not going to get into one of the two reasons why the idea is shaky, since I've already made that complaint. I do think the guy will become a good player, perhaps a very good one.
Your number 4 prospect is a SS with an ETA of late this year. A year behind him is a SS who is one of the best prospects in all of baseball. So all you need at SS is a one-year stopgap (which may turn out to be 4 or 5 months). Elvis Andrus is a free agent and Joey Wendle is in his walk year for a lousy team, so there's no shortage of candidates for that.*
A very large part of Kim's trade value is his four years of team control -- of which we'd expect to use only two. Meanwhile, teams with a genuine need will be motivated to outbid you, wouldn't they?
So, why? How does this make sense?
* I promised not to point out that both guys were better than Kim last year, on a rate basis, all things considered.
Kim only has 2 years of control remaining, which fits perfectly with Mayer's timeline. (I'm also fairly certain that Rafaela's best position and long-term home is center field, especially with the aforementioned Mayer coming up behind him.) I respectfully disagree regarding your assessment of Kim's value relative to Andrus and Wendle, especially in terms of their likely production in 2023/2024. It's possible that Andrus is a more efficient use of resources if San Diego's asking price in a trade is too high, but I think Kim would have been the clear #5 shortstop in this year's free agent market, maybe even #4 given his age relative to Swanson, et. al. He's a good player now on a very reasonable contract.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 18, 2023 17:38:52 GMT -5
i am kind of shocked that there are 65 pages to this thread and no solution. Not even sure the Kimbrell thread had this many posts.
It is also kind of telling that none of the remaining options were even on the board to begin with. It is a very important position on the diamond. I think this decision has been severely mismanaged and I really wouldn't be surprised if Story was the choice to begin with. Coupled with the X offers, it makes the most sense to me.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,754
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Post by nomar on Jan 18, 2023 18:12:15 GMT -5
It’s now a thread about the hitter whom you’re most willing to go to the bathroom during their at bats.
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Post by incandenza on Jan 24, 2023 13:06:05 GMT -5
Just seeing this now:
I have absolutely no idea what his health looks like but I could see Bloom making this move if he's healthy. Switch hitter, plus defender, plus runner. Seems like the type of player Bloom would target.
By golly, a Red Sox rumor that actually panned out!
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Post by rminns10 on Jan 24, 2023 13:35:05 GMT -5
I voted for Story when this first came out, i thought i had it until the elbow injury knocked him out.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 24, 2023 16:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Jan 24, 2023 16:28:21 GMT -5
A meta-rumor! This requires confirmation. What's the word on the street as to whether this Henrique fellow has the goods?
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 24, 2023 16:29:20 GMT -5
I don't think it can be fully ruled out even with the Mondesi deal, I like Mondesi and the deal but I'd still like to see them add a more concrete everyday option at SS so that Hernandez can stay in CF unless absolutely needed in the MI. Not that I think it'd change the overall dynamics of the trade negotiations much but perhaps Mondesi gives them at least a little bit of leverage in trade or contract negotiations. Still think it'd cost Houck+ for Kim and I'm not sure I'd be for that though.
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texs31
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Posts: 5,214
Member is Online
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Post by texs31 on Jan 24, 2023 16:29:51 GMT -5
I believe he was one of the first on the Duvall rumors.
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cdj
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Posts: 13,961
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Post by cdj on Jan 24, 2023 16:33:34 GMT -5
Yeah at this point I just keep Houck unless a guy like Adames is in play
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 24, 2023 16:43:17 GMT -5
A meta-rumor! This requires confirmation. What's the word on the street as to whether this Henrique fellow has the goods? I believe he was the first to report Duvall, but he also said it was a 2 year deal.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 24, 2023 19:26:55 GMT -5
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jan 24, 2023 20:31:48 GMT -5
What about taking a flyer on Adalberto Mondesi at SS? He's got upside and wouldn't cost that much. Royals are also free at SS for the foreseeable future. A+ move. Tremendous upside and will probably end up being the 4th best player on our team next season if healty.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jan 25, 2023 2:42:14 GMT -5
What about taking a flyer on Adalberto Mondesi at SS? He's got upside and wouldn't cost that much. Royals are also free at SS for the foreseeable future. A+ move. Tremendous upside and will probably end up being the 4th best player on our team next season if healty. If he’s our 4th best player next year then I need your # so I can get all your predictions 😂
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 16:01:22 GMT -5
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