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Post by xdmo on Dec 5, 2022 19:46:08 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 5, 2022 19:49:11 GMT -5
Hendricks is on 2/29, ZiPS 1.7 WAR next year
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 19:50:17 GMT -5
If he's on the market, I'd expect the Dodgers to be all over the White Sox for a deal. They have the money and the glaring need for a closer, and prospects to give.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 5, 2022 19:52:41 GMT -5
Hendricks is on 2/29, ZiPS 1.7 WAR next year Yeah quite valuable. The White Sox will get a haul for him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 19:58:37 GMT -5
OMG TAKE ALL THE SOXPROSPECTS AND GIVE US THE CRAZY AUSTRALIAN. LIAM I WILL GET YOU A KANGAROO IF YOU WAIVE YOUR NO-TRADE CLAUSE (But yeah, I’d love to get him)
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Post by incandenza on Dec 5, 2022 20:54:25 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 20:59:51 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers? I remember the Red Sox trading Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi for Lee Smith and it worked out alright. Depends what you have to give up. And frankly I don't regret the Kimbrel deal. I don't wake up in the middle of the night wishing that Manny Margot and the other three guys who amounted to very little were still on the Red Sox. You can't have an entire bullpen of spaghetti thrown against the wall.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 5, 2022 21:16:26 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers? Especially for a closer that will have a steep prospect cost. Hendricks will strictly be for teams who have a high degree of certainty of making a deep playoff run.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 5, 2022 21:18:19 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers? I remember the Red Sox trading Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi for Lee Smith and it worked out alright. Depends what you have to give up. And frankly I don't regret the Kimbrel deal. I don't wake up in the middle of the night wishing that Manny Margot and the other three guys who amounted to very little were still on the Red Sox. You can't have an entire bullpen of spaghetti thrown against the wall. All relievers are spaghetti. Kimbrel is spaghetti. Hendriks is spaghetti. Barnes is spaghetti. Chris Martin is spaghetti too, but at least he didn't cost any prospects.
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Post by manfred on Dec 5, 2022 21:19:45 GMT -5
I remember the Red Sox trading Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi for Lee Smith and it worked out alright. Depends what you have to give up. And frankly I don't regret the Kimbrel deal. I don't wake up in the middle of the night wishing that Manny Margot and the other three guys who amounted to very little were still on the Red Sox. You can't have an entire bullpen of spaghetti thrown against the wall. All relievers are spaghetti. Kimbrel is spaghetti. Hendriks is spaghetti. Barnes is spaghetti. Chris Martin is spaghetti too, but at least he didn't cost any prospects. C’mon. I see your point, but even here there is Chef Boy-R-Dee and a Michelin restaurant. Was Mariano spaghetti?
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Post by incandenza on Dec 5, 2022 21:27:03 GMT -5
All relievers are spaghetti. Kimbrel is spaghetti. Hendriks is spaghetti. Barnes is spaghetti. Chris Martin is spaghetti too, but at least he didn't cost any prospects. C’mon. I see your point, but even here there is Chef Boy-R-Dee and a Michelin restaurant. Was Mariano spaghetti? No, Mariano was not spaghetti. At any given time there are between 0-2 non-spaghetti relievers. Usually they last 3 or 4 years. Hendricks was that for a few years but I don't know if he still is. Hader was until he wasn't. Kimbrel was until he wasn't (his run ended just in time to nearly ruin the magical 2018 season). Mariano was the one wildly exceptional reliever who was good for a full lengthy career.
Hendricks' non-spaghetti run was 2019-2021. He fell off a little last season. Next season, who knows.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 21:32:23 GMT -5
I remember the Red Sox trading Al Nipper and Calvin Schiraldi for Lee Smith and it worked out alright. Depends what you have to give up. And frankly I don't regret the Kimbrel deal. I don't wake up in the middle of the night wishing that Manny Margot and the other three guys who amounted to very little were still on the Red Sox. You can't have an entire bullpen of spaghetti thrown against the wall. All relievers are spaghetti. Kimbrel is spaghetti. Hendriks is spaghetti. Barnes is spaghetti. Chris Martin is spaghetti too, but at least he didn't cost any prospects. No they're not. Just like starting pitchers, some are better than others. You see the volatility because their seasons comprise of much smaller sample sizes. Look at Nick Pivetta. He had a stretch that would be a season that would make Mariano Rivera proud and he had a stretch that was horrendous, but it all happened in the same season because of his larger sample size as a starting pitcher so his numbers look more balanced. By the way, Mariano Rivera was not spaghetti. He's the greatest closer of all-time. And he impacted the Yankees for the good for a long time. Koji Uehara wasn't spaghetti. He impacted the hell out of the 2013 Red Sox. Eckersley, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, and John Franco weren't spaghetti. And in the generation before there was Rollie Fingers and Lee Smith and others like Dan Quisenberry, Goose Gossage and Jesse Orosco, guys who had staying power. You have good relievers and you have bad relievers. As a Sox fan I've seen good relievers have good extended careers just like I've seen starters come and go pretty quickly, too. You see spaghetti. I see pitchers with smaller sample sizes whose numbers will vary because of the sample size. And yeah, the sample size is small because they're not good enough to be starters. Then again, there are a ton of starters who are pitching that are not exactly good starters and these days the starters don't even pitch that much more than the relievers. It's getting to the point starters are almost indistinguishable from relievers. I'm exaggerating but not by a lot.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 5, 2022 21:40:01 GMT -5
All relievers are spaghetti. Kimbrel is spaghetti. Hendriks is spaghetti. Barnes is spaghetti. Chris Martin is spaghetti too, but at least he didn't cost any prospects. No they're not. Just like starting pitchers, some are better than others. You see the volatility because their seasons comprise of much smaller sample sizes. Look at Nick Pivetta. He had a stretch that would be a season that would make Mariano Rivera proud and he had a stretch that was horrendous, but it all happened in the same season because of his larger sample size as a starting pitcher so his numbers look more balanced. By the way, Mariano Rivera was not spaghetti. He's the greatest closer of all-time. And he impacted the Yankees for the good for a long time. Koji Uehara wasn't spaghetti. He impacted the hell out of the 2013 Red Sox. Eckersley, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, and John Franco weren't spaghetti. And in the generation before there was Rollie Fingers and Lee Smith and others like Dan Quisenberry, Goose Gossage and Jesse Orosco, guys who had staying power. You have good relievers and you have bad relievers. As a Sox fan I've seen good relievers have good extended careers just like I've seen starters come and go pretty quickly, too. You see spaghetti. I see pitchers with smaller sample sizes whose numbers will vary because of the sample size. And yeah, the sample size is small because they're not good enough to be starters. Then again, there are a ton of starters who are pitching that are not exactly good starters and these days the starters don't even pitch that much more than the relievers. It's getting to the point starters are almost indistinguishable from relievers. I'm exaggerating but not by a lot. Well here's how it goes when teams sign "good relievers." Could you have told me in advance which ones would be worth giving up the next Jed Lowrie or Josh Reddick?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 21:48:31 GMT -5
No they're not. Just like starting pitchers, some are better than others. You see the volatility because their seasons comprise of much smaller sample sizes. Look at Nick Pivetta. He had a stretch that would be a season that would make Mariano Rivera proud and he had a stretch that was horrendous, but it all happened in the same season because of his larger sample size as a starting pitcher so his numbers look more balanced. By the way, Mariano Rivera was not spaghetti. He's the greatest closer of all-time. And he impacted the Yankees for the good for a long time. Koji Uehara wasn't spaghetti. He impacted the hell out of the 2013 Red Sox. Eckersley, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, and John Franco weren't spaghetti. And in the generation before there was Rollie Fingers and Lee Smith and others like Dan Quisenberry, Goose Gossage and Jesse Orosco, guys who had staying power. You have good relievers and you have bad relievers. As a Sox fan I've seen good relievers have good extended careers just like I've seen starters come and go pretty quickly, too. You see spaghetti. I see pitchers with smaller sample sizes whose numbers will vary because of the sample size. And yeah, the sample size is small because they're not good enough to be starters. Then again, there are a ton of starters who are pitching that are not exactly good starters and these days the starters don't even pitch that much more than the relievers. It's getting to the point starters are almost indistinguishable from relievers. I'm exaggerating but not by a lot. Well here's how it goes when teams sign "good relievers." Could you have told me in advance which ones would be worth giving up the next Jed Lowrie or Josh Reddick?
I liked Jed Lowrie but he was more of a 2b than a SS and the Sox had Pedroia. The deal for Melancon wasn't a bad trade. What make it bad was the buffoon who managed the Red Sox in 2012. He buried Melancon after a bad start as if he couldn't pitch at all. Well, Melancon is still going strong in the majors. It could have been a really good deal if Bobby Valentine wasn't so Bobby Valentine. With Bailey, his issue was less his pitching - well the caveat is that he was pitching in Oakland - you're not going to get the same performance when your home ballpark changes from the Oakland coliseum to Fenway, but his biggest problem was how incredibly brittle he was. At the time I didn't mind the deal because I thought Reddick was a guy who could hit but would get himself out swinging at anything that moved. He got a little bit better in that regard and it allowed him to have a career so yeah, it was a bad deal. It would have been a better deal if it had been Ryan Khalish for Bailey instead, an injury prone hitter for an injury prone pitcher. At the time we didn't know which guy, Khalish or Reddick would have the better career. The Sox parted with the wrong one.
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Post by bosox904 on Dec 5, 2022 21:51:48 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers? Especially for a closer that will have a steep prospect cost. Hendricks will strictly be for teams who have a high degree of certainty of making a deep playoff run. Will the prospect cost really be that much though? Raisel Iglesias has a similar salary, although for a year longer and the Angels got pretty much nothing of value. In fact one of the players was a 38 year old eho they released and Atlanta picked back up.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 5, 2022 22:26:54 GMT -5
The Sox are all over Tommy Kahnle. Knew he would be a great target.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 23:11:00 GMT -5
The Sox are all over Tommy Kahnle. Knew he would be a great target. I don't know about him. He has thrown less than 15 innings over the past 3 years. And he has a long history of injury troubles and bouts of wildness. I know he was good in his brief stint with LA, but then again, who doesn't pitch well for them? If they get him I hope he doesn't cost them too much. He's kind of high risk. You could wind up spending money on him and see him pitching 25 innings before he breaks down again. Or on the flip side he's an 8th inning guy. Risky, though. He's one of those guys, if they get him, they get him, but if they don't, I'm alright with that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 23:21:57 GMT -5
In this year of the lord two thousand and twenty two, after all we've been through, you people still want to trade for relief pitchers? When it comes to Liam Hendriks, I am ready to make bad decisions 😃
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Post by xdmo on Dec 6, 2022 5:19:11 GMT -5
Cotillo also confirms Kahnle interest and says the deal could come together soon.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Dec 6, 2022 8:33:50 GMT -5
1+1 deal? Don’t think I’d commit to two years, so an option would be ideal. Give him the Paxton special for all I care. Make it 1+2. Go crazy. But I’d only guarantee his 2023 salary.
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 9:27:20 GMT -5
What are the estimates on his salary? If this is cheap, ok. But what is it with Bloom and pitchers who haven’t pitched in a few years?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 6, 2022 9:32:14 GMT -5
What are the estimates on his salary? If this is cheap, ok. But what is it with Bloom and pitchers who haven’t pitched in a few years? Well Martin and Rodriguez pitched last year, as did Kahnle.
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 9:46:52 GMT -5
What are the estimates on his salary? If this is cheap, ok. But what is it with Bloom and pitchers who haven’t pitched in a few years? Well Martin and Rodriguez pitched last year, as did Kahnle. He’s throw 13.2 innings in 2 years. You are correct, if a bit literal. I like the Martin signing. I don’t think I said exclusively pitchers who haven’t pitched. (Joely is a flyer, so neither credit nor criticism there. Given his negative WAR last season, the Mets might wish he hadn’t pitched).
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Post by incandenza on Dec 6, 2022 10:09:10 GMT -5
Well Martin and Rodriguez pitched last year, as did Kahnle. He’s throw 13.2 innings in 2 years. You are correct, if a bit literal. I like the Martin signing. I don’t think I said exclusively pitchers who haven’t pitched. (Joely is a flyer, so neither credit nor criticism there. Given his negative WAR last season, the Mets might wish he hadn’t pitched). Joely is just a flyer? He has a 3.70 xERA/3.33 FIP/3.44 xFIP over the last two seasons. I think they're expectig him to be an important member of the bullpen.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2022 10:12:22 GMT -5
He’s throw 13.2 innings in 2 years. You are correct, if a bit literal. I like the Martin signing. I don’t think I said exclusively pitchers who haven’t pitched. (Joely is a flyer, so neither credit nor criticism there. Given his negative WAR last season, the Mets might wish he hadn’t pitched). Joely is just a flyer? He has a 3.70 xERA/3.33 FIP/3.44 xFIP over the last two seasons. I think they're expectig him to be an important member of the bullpen. they are paying him 2mil which is peanuts so I see why Manfred would classify that as a flier which is where I'm at as well. For 2 mil if he's decent great if not, no harm done really. Which to me is basically how I'd define a flier.
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