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Post by incandenza on Dec 6, 2022 10:15:09 GMT -5
Joely is just a flyer? He has a 3.70 xERA/3.33 FIP/3.44 xFIP over the last two seasons. I think they're expectig him to be an important member of the bullpen. they are paying him 2mil which is peanuts so I see why Manfred would classify that as a flier which is where I'm at as well. For 2 mil if he's decent great if not, no harm done really. Which to me is basically how I'd define a flier. I guess, unlike manfred, I would credit them for getting a reliever who has significant upside potential at very little downside risk.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2022 10:24:18 GMT -5
they are paying him 2mil which is peanuts so I see why Manfred would classify that as a flier which is where I'm at as well. For 2 mil if he's decent great if not, no harm done really. Which to me is basically how I'd define a flier. I guess, unlike manfred, I would credit them for getting a reliever who has significant upside potential at very little downside risk. His peripherals look solid and he's pretty much their best lefty reliever on the roster now out of the gate so yes there's good upside with minimal downside which sounds like a flier to me. I'm not crapping on the signing I get it and it could work out great.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 6, 2022 10:30:15 GMT -5
Well Martin and Rodriguez pitched last year, as did Kahnle. He’s throw 13.2 innings in 2 years. You are correct, if a bit literal. I like the Martin signing. I don’t think I said exclusively pitchers who haven’t pitched. (Joely is a flyer, so neither credit nor criticism there. Given his negative WAR last season, the Mets might wish he hadn’t pitched). It also seems like there is a bidding war for him. Outside of Paxton, who are these guys that haven't pitched in years, that Bloom is infatuated with?
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 10:38:08 GMT -5
He’s throw 13.2 innings in 2 years. You are correct, if a bit literal. I like the Martin signing. I don’t think I said exclusively pitchers who haven’t pitched. (Joely is a flyer, so neither credit nor criticism there. Given his negative WAR last season, the Mets might wish he hadn’t pitched). It also seems like there is a bidding war for him. Outside of Paxton, who are these guys that haven't pitched in years, that Bloom is infatuated with? Cf. Richards, Garrett
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 6, 2022 10:39:15 GMT -5
Confirmation from Speier
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 6, 2022 10:44:16 GMT -5
It also seems like there is a bidding war for him. Outside of Paxton, who are these guys that haven't pitched in years, that Bloom is infatuated with? Cf. Richards, Garrett Richards pitched for the Padres in 2020
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 6, 2022 10:48:38 GMT -5
I for one would like the Red Sox to continue to be open to signing pitchers that have had Tommy John surgery in the past.
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 10:52:42 GMT -5
Richards pitched for the Padres in 2020 Ah, yes, again… literally true. 13 starts in 2 years is, in fact, pitching.
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 10:54:05 GMT -5
I for one would like the Red Sox to continue to be open to signing pitchers that have had Tommy John surgery in the past. I’d have signed Verlander on the operating table.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2022 10:56:04 GMT -5
So adding Kahnle, Martin and Rodriguez...I wonder if this means the Sox are preparing to maybe piggy back or maybe use a pen arm as an opener for the 5th rotation spot.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 6, 2022 10:58:29 GMT -5
Richards pitched for the Padres in 2020 Ah, yes, again… literally true. 13 starts in 2 years is, in fact, pitching. Friggin scrub only making 10 starts, and having 14 total appearances in a 60 game season. Back in my day, pitchers walked up hill both ways to the stadium, started every night, and then worked in the factory in the evening
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 11:01:06 GMT -5
Ah, yes, again… literally true. 13 starts in 2 years is, in fact, pitching. Friggin scrub only making 10 starts, and having 14 total appearances in a 60 game season. Back in my day, pitchers walked up hill both ways to the stadium, started every night, and then worked in the factory in the evening Good point. I guess the proof is in the pudding, and those guys showed how wrong I was about thinking they were a mistake.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 6, 2022 11:22:30 GMT -5
Friggin scrub only making 10 starts, and having 14 total appearances in a 60 game season. Back in my day, pitchers walked up hill both ways to the stadium, started every night, and then worked in the factory in the evening Good point. I guess the proof is in the pudding, and those guys showed how wrong I was about thinking they were a mistake. If you say every move is bad for every team, and keep a very arbitrary and unreasonable set of standards while ignoring all context, you'll end up being right roughly ~29 of 30 times. Blind squirrel, nut, yadda yadda. Congratulations on your internet win!
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 11:31:51 GMT -5
Good point. I guess the proof is in the pudding, and those guys showed how wrong I was about thinking they were a mistake. If you say every move is bad for every team, and keep a very arbitrary and unreasonable set of standards while ignoring all context, you'll end up being right roughly ~29 of 30 times. Blind squirrel, nut, yadda yadda. Congratulations on your internet win! This has gotten very far away from my original question, which was what is the expected price of Kanhle. My point on injured guys was… if he is cheap, go for it. If he is expensive, why add the money and risk?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 6, 2022 11:33:41 GMT -5
Kahnle signs with the Yankees, per Heyman. 2 years/$11.5m.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 6, 2022 11:35:24 GMT -5
Of course the Yankees sneak in, when the Sox are close to signing him. This sucks. That's a good deal for a quality reliever.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2022 11:37:01 GMT -5
Kahnle signs with the Yankees, per Heyman. 2 years/$11.5m. going back to the NYY's
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Post by xdmo on Dec 6, 2022 11:38:08 GMT -5
Screw Kahnle. That's the second time he's chosen another team besides the Sox, even when they were really aggressive with him.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2022 11:38:13 GMT -5
Kahnle signs with the Yankees, per Heyman. 2 years/$11.5m. The proportional response would now be to steal Judge
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2022 11:38:48 GMT -5
Not particularly sad Kahnle signed elsewhere for that deal considering he's thrown 13 innings since 2020.
Of course saying that I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune when he inevitably shuts down the sox in a big moment or two during the season.
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 6, 2022 11:39:25 GMT -5
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 6, 2022 11:39:27 GMT -5
Screw Kahnle. That's the second time he's chosen another team besides the Sox, even when they were really aggressive with him. Pretty much my thinking without the “screw him” part. Would I have liked him? Sure. Am I mad he went somewhere else? Not at all.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 6, 2022 11:39:42 GMT -5
Kahnle signs with the Yankees, per Heyman. 2 years/$11.5m. Glad the Sox didn't get him at that price. Honestly I'd rather they not commit $6M more of next year's budget to any reliever.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 6, 2022 11:40:39 GMT -5
The Red Sox really do not need any more right handed relievers
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 6, 2022 11:48:47 GMT -5
If you say every move is bad for every team, and keep a very arbitrary and unreasonable set of standards while ignoring all context, you'll end up being right roughly ~29 of 30 times. Blind squirrel, nut, yadda yadda. Congratulations on your internet win! This has gotten very far away from my original question, which was what is the expected price of Kanhle. My point on injured guys was… if he is cheap, go for it. If he is expensive, why add the money and risk? "Cheap" and "Expensive" are entirely relative terms. If Aaron Judge tore his ACL right now, maybe he'd only get $37 million in AAV compared to $42 or whatever he's projected to get. Is that cheap? No. Is it cheapER than his normal market would be? Yes, and that's the entire point. If Bloom views taking a risk on pitchers coming off of an injury, then it's just something he's deemed as a market inefficiency. I don't get what's so hard to understand about the possibility that Bloom (or the Yankees or any of the other teams bidding for him) believed that the value of the talent is that of his pre-2020 production and they're okay with the risk given that his market in reality is below that projected value. If you disagree with that conceptually that's fine, you're entitled to that and I really don't care, it's the inability/failure to consider context that makes these posts so annoying. Take the blinders off, look at all the information with the goal of getting a full picture and now just confirming a bias, and then form a reaction. I get that sports message boards aren't going to be a haven of objectivity and realism, but surely it can be better than this.
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