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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2022 11:49:09 GMT -5
Not particularly sad Kahnle signed elsewhere for that deal considering he's thrown 13 innings since 2020. Of course saying that I'm sure I'll be singing a different tune when he inevitably shuts down the sox in a big moment or two during the season. Good deal for a contender, but for a team trying to make a wild card spot like Boston, it doesn't make sense to give him 2 years guaranteed at 11.5 million.
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Post by manfred on Dec 6, 2022 11:57:58 GMT -5
This has gotten very far away from my original question, which was what is the expected price of Kanhle. My point on injured guys was… if he is cheap, go for it. If he is expensive, why add the money and risk? "Cheap" and "Expensive" are entirely relative terms. If Aaron Judge tore his ACL right now, maybe he'd only get $37 million in AAV compared to $42 or whatever he's projected to get. Is that cheap? No. Is it cheapER than his normal market would be? Yes, and that's the entire point. If Bloom views taking a risk on pitchers coming off of an injury, then it's just something he's deemed as a market inefficiency. I don't get what's so hard to understand about the possibility that Bloom (or the Yankees or any of the other teams bidding for him) believed that the value of the talent is that of his pre-2020 production and they're okay with the risk given that his market in reality is below that projected value. If you disagree with that conceptually that's fine, you're entitled to that and I really don't care, it's the inability/failure to consider context that makes these posts so annoying. Take the blinders off, look at all the information with the goal of getting a full picture and now just confirming a bias, and then form a reaction. I get that sports message boards aren't going to be a haven of objectivity and realism, but surely it can be better than this. A) it is moot. B) if there are x dollars, then cheap/expensive is based on that sum. Thus… if they have $75 million for next year, if they have not signed a SS or an OF, if they could likely use even another bat and maybe another starter, then using, say, $10 million for a reliever seems exceedingly expensive… even if he is brilliant. Now we know it was around 6.5 (which was my *question*). Is that expensive? I don’t know. It’d leave about $69 mill to get done the main priorities. Maybe that is enough.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 6, 2022 12:02:19 GMT -5
If Kahnle went back to his 2019 form, you can argue he was the best reliever out there this off-season in free agency.
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cdj
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Posts: 13,395
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Post by cdj on Dec 6, 2022 12:23:08 GMT -5
I now will argue that Kahnle is a useless bum, thank you
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 6, 2022 12:27:05 GMT -5
I now will argue that Kahnle is a useless bum, thank you 13 innings in the last 3 years and they gave him two years guaranteed lmao
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 6, 2022 12:32:28 GMT -5
I now will argue that Kahnle is a useless bum, thank you 13 innings in the last 3 years and they gave him two years guaranteed lmao Brilliant move by Bloom to fake interest and sucker Cashman into signing an over-rated, over-priced, injured pitcher!!
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 6, 2022 12:49:26 GMT -5
13 innings in the last 3 years and they gave him two years guaranteed lmao Brilliant move by Bloom to fake interest and sucker Cashman into signing an over-rated, over-priced, injured pitcher!! Just like he snookered the Astros into outbidding him for Abreu. Brilliant Bloom; undoubtedly saving his sheckles for a big Bogarts signing.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 6, 2022 13:08:32 GMT -5
Can we do an Academy Awards in memoriam style video for that brief shining moment when it looked like the Red Sox might sign Tommy Kahnle?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 13:12:57 GMT -5
Hate seeing the Yankees outbidding the Red Sox, but I have my reservations about Kahnle.
If he's healthy he could be damn good and useful.
But he's rarely healthy so you run the risk of throwing money away on yet another often injured pitcher.
Hope Bloom has a better more reliable reliever targeted.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Dec 6, 2022 14:33:52 GMT -5
Pivot to Taylor Rogers? He's been my #1 bullpen target, and we could really use a high-leverage lefty. Even before the events of today, I'd rather spend a little bit more and invest 3/24 or 2/18 in Rogers, considering Kahnle is getting almost $12mil.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 6, 2022 14:54:07 GMT -5
Pivot to Taylor Rogers? He's been my #1 bullpen target, and we could really use a high-leverage lefty. Even before the events of today, I'd rather spend a little bit more and invest 3/24 or 2/18 in Rogers, considering Kahnle is getting almost $12mil. Rodgers is the only other guy worth grabbing I think too.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 6, 2022 20:19:47 GMT -5
Pivot to Taylor Rogers? He's been my #1 bullpen target, and we could really use a high-leverage lefty. Even before the events of today, I'd rather spend a little bit more and invest 3/24 or 2/18 in Rogers, considering Kahnle is getting almost $12mil. He belongs on the Twins with his brother Tyler.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2022 21:01:44 GMT -5
Another example that money is not the end all be all for players.
Location matters as well. Some prefer play closer to home.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 6, 2022 21:02:53 GMT -5
Rangers offer was probably better anyway. Heaney got an opt out after 1, and there's 12 million of incentives.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2022 21:09:59 GMT -5
Rangers offer was probably better anyway. Heaney got an opt out after 1, and there's 12 million of incentives. No
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 6, 2022 23:39:12 GMT -5
Kenley Jansen makes sense if we free up money elsewhere. I do have grave concerns about him pitching in Boston however if he doesn't get off to a good start.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 7, 2022 10:52:47 GMT -5
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Post by bosox904 on Dec 7, 2022 20:48:36 GMT -5
I've mentioned Eno Sarris' stuff+ model on here before. I was looking today and found that Kaleb Ort ranked 46th in his stuff+ model(minimum 100 pitches) at 123.5(100 is average overall, believe around 106-107 is average for relievers.) Although he doesn't fair as well in his location+(352nd) or pitching+(200th) models. But, he's mentioned before location+ is more fickle year to year than stuff+. If the Sox are using similar models and he shows improved location in spring training, I could see him being in the oen.
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2022 23:21:45 GMT -5
I think Brasier will be gone. Right now I don`t see keeping for about $2.5 mil.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Dec 8, 2022 19:41:41 GMT -5
Do you think that the Kenley Janson signing was a result (direct or indirect) of being outbid for Kahnle? Or do you think the two situations were independent from one another?
If yes to the former, that’s quite a shift in expenses and allocation of resources. If yes to the latter, we might still be in the market for a strong bullpen addition…
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Dec 9, 2022 5:42:25 GMT -5
I could see them bringing in a lefty with a decent track record for the pen. Not sure who that might be. Deeper the pen the better. I do not see Jansen as a plan B for Kanlhe. Jansen is a specific fit to fill a void.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 9, 2022 6:48:33 GMT -5
Do you think that the Kenley Janson signing was a result (direct or indirect) of being outbid for Kahnle? Or do you think the two situations were independent from one another? If yes to the former, that’s quite a shift in expenses and allocation of resources. If yes to the latter, we might still be in the market for a strong bullpen addition… They're most likely independent. Jansen has a long proven track record as a closer. Kahnle has a long proven track record as an injury plagued 7th/8th inning reliever. The Sox finally got tired of gambling with the identity of the closer from night to night. Jansen was signed to finally out an end to that. Regardless if Kahnle had signed or not. If anything the Sox may yet sign another RH reliever although I think the guy they might bring in will probably be a lefty and given their money situation I think at this point they only bring in a righty reliever if they trade Houck or are convinced that Houck is starting.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 10, 2022 17:22:25 GMT -5
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 13, 2022 13:50:57 GMT -5
It wasn’t as if the Pen didn’t have good pitchers. Several RP’s contributed to the consistent blown holds and saves and embarrassing losses. They likely won’t be back. Several other problems may have been resolved already. Barnes, who spent most of the season recovering from whatever, only found his groove towards the end. Houck and Whitlock played through what ultimately were season ending issues which needed surgery to correct. Into the breach stepped Schreiber and Kelly. They will likely be back and be reliable. I think building a healthy core of Houck, Schreiber, Kelly, Barnes, maybe Whitlock is a very good start. Adding Hill and Crawford as long relievers/spot starters/rotation depth is smart on so many levels. Finding the right one or two RP’s on the market, and aiming some big AAA arms towards the Pen, as mentioned above, seems like a good idea. I am no longer worried about the Pen for 2023. As we approached our soCal wine country, Temecula, vertical banners hanging from street lights boldly proclaimed “Live Glass Full”. I rarely post here but those audacious banners got me laughing about life in general, mine in particular, and for some weird reason to the above post. And that was before visiting several of their 50 excellent wineries LOLOL. Why not. Another good day in paradise. How good is it to say something I never thought would be said … that the Red Sox don’t need to spend another nickel on this bullpen. It is just fine. That glass is full. Back end, setup, middle, mop up, swing, depth, all of the above. Jansen, Houck, Martin, Schreiber, Barnes, Rodriguez, Kelly, Taylor, Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold, Murphy, Brasier, Mata, maybe Hill, Paxton, Hernandez, much more. If the four pillars of a team’s structure are offense, defense, starting pitching and relief pitching, then at least one pillar has gone from weak to strongly in place, in early December. That’s living glass full. That’s a Christmas present.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 18, 2022 22:19:52 GMT -5
Can the Red Sox DFA Brasier without having to pay $2.3 in 2023 because of his arbitration?
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