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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 21, 2023 11:57:41 GMT -5
Why do you people continue to waste energy talking about the players we didn’t get and not talk about all the players we just signed? It’s such a negative mindset. We signed over 20 guys yet most of this thread is crying about a 16 year old we didn’t get. Because there is no scenario where this is positive for the Sox. At best they discovered a serious flaw in Ruiz and moved on. If they had sufficient lead time and chose to reallocate his money a while ago on better prospects, that might be a positive , but have interesting longer term consequences for breaking verbal deals. If it’s a last minute issue (which it seemed to be) they have to pivot to reallocate a significant amount of money last minute on a limited supply of good kids. On the assumption that most good $100k and up kids are committed, then we are on the wrong side of good odds. That’s why we’re trying to guess how this a-typical situation arose rather than posting positive stuff about kids we have never heard about. Uhhh there’s an extremely obvious scenario in which this is a positive for the Sox, and that’s if Ruiz doesn’t pan out but the prospects they re-allocate that money toward do. I mean, duh? I don’t really get why this still being talked about. Y’all have been on this board for so long without paying a lick of attention to how weird this whole process is? Stuff happens, he would’ve been a fun get, but ultimately I can’t believe people actually care enough to raise questions about it. And don’t say it’s just because you’re super interested in Red Sox prospects or whatever, I’m on this board too lol that’s not a prerequisite.
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Post by stevedillard on Jan 21, 2023 12:04:06 GMT -5
Under that theory, releasing Marcello Mayer and signing a free agent undrafted kid is also not negative, because mayer may not work out but the undrafted kid might.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 21, 2023 12:08:01 GMT -5
Under that theory, releasing Marcello Mayer and signing a free agent undrafted kid is also not negative, because mayer may not work out but the undrafted kid might. Fantastic straw man. Never said it was the best outcome or that the process was sound, just said that there exists a scenario where it works out. Reading comprehension.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Jan 21, 2023 12:43:33 GMT -5
Or perhaps the Sox saw a number of good prospects that required a certain amount to sign so they only had $1mm left instead of $1.2 and Ruiz Wanted the whole amount and thus signed with the Roayals who had the money to spend. Given the ultra crap shoot nature of projecting 16 year olds it is quite possible that 2 dimes and nickel are worth more than a quarter more often than not.
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Post by greenmonster on Jan 21, 2023 12:52:03 GMT -5
Or perhaps the Sox saw a number of good prospects that required a certain amount to sign so they only had $1mm left instead of $1.2 and Ruiz Wanted the whole amount and thus signed with the Roayals who had the money to spend. Given the ultra crap shoot nature of projecting 16 year olds it is quite possible that 2 dimes and nickel are worth more than a quarter more often than not. IMO, this would be the absolute worst scenario. If the Sox just decided to reneg on a previous "agreement" then they will be paying for it for years to come. The next generation of recruits will clearly be talking "you can't believe the Red Sox" and the Sox will need to increase their offers to get anyone onboard. I honestly hope something else transpired.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 21, 2023 12:53:22 GMT -5
We are also talking about teenagers here.
They can change their minds as well
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Jan 21, 2023 12:56:26 GMT -5
True, if that is the case. However, if the deal was that the Sox said we'll pay you $1mm +/- and then Ruiz said $1.2mm or go fish, the Sox decided to go fishing. Unfortunately we are very, very unlikely to ever know what really happened.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 21, 2023 12:57:07 GMT -5
I think it's okay to throw around speculation a little bit, but offering harsh judgement on anyone when there is so little information to go on is unwarranted IMO.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 21, 2023 13:11:48 GMT -5
I think it's fair to question what went on with Ruiz.
We know all this is a crapshoot. But when you see a guy projected to sign for more than a million dollars it gives one the idea that the signing team thinks that the player they sign for that money is more likely to succeed or is more highly regarded. Doesn't mean that they will succeed and the 10k kid will fail.
But I dont think it makes one less if a fan to ask critical questions that are fair questions. Something happened. The Sox were thought to have thought highly enough of this kid to give him over a million dollars but then they suddenly didn't.
It could be a big break that one or two of the kids they grabbed instead turn into something and/or Ruiz busts.
But initially, a dollar offer shows what a team thinks the talent at that stage is worth. Ruiz went for over a million with KC so he's still a highly regarded talented, one you'd think would be more highly regarded than the lesser dollar value kids signed so it's a fair question if the Sox lost out on a higher caliber talent and if so, why.
I hope Romero explains what happened. As unlikely as that is, it would be good to know for inquiring minds who care enough to know.
Like I said I dont know if it's good or is bad. I do know that if the Sox signed some top 30 talent they weren't expected to sign, there would be some kudos going around, so I think it's just as fair to ask the question if it goes the other way.
Note that I'm not saying this is a tragedy here. Just something worth questioning.
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Post by stevedillard on Jan 21, 2023 13:25:25 GMT -5
We are also talking about teenagers here. They can change their minds as well I guess the more accurate thing, to my mind, is they are buscone/agents who make these deals with the teams. I don't imagine most of the 14 year olds when they make their deals have much of a say in it. Edit: I'm not saying the Sox backed out. Just that the stories suggest it wasn't Ruiz, based on the reports he had an injury, and the fact that he had additional tryouts late in the process. Edit 2: It's also concerning because the Sox lost ground from 2016-2018 for the J2 punishment, and one of the seeming important deterrents from going over the salary cap is losing $500K, or even $1 million in J2 money. Losing a kid that generally seems to be a million dollar prospect (Sox thought so, and so do the Royals) is something the Sox can ill afford. For background on the process generally: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34549387/prospects-willy-fanas-keiderson-pavon-suing-los-angeles-angels-alleging-agreements-pulled-back-team
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Post by iakovos11 on Jan 21, 2023 15:53:17 GMT -5
I think it's okay to throw around speculation a little bit, but offering harsh judgement on anyone when there is so little information to go on is unwarranted IMO. This x100. This needs to be emphasized.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 21, 2023 16:12:03 GMT -5
I’m sure there’s a good reason for it on either end. Oh well, not worth getting to upset about. One of their 200k signings will probably be the best to come out of the class anyway
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 21, 2023 16:25:30 GMT -5
This happens more than people realize it’s a verbal agreement for a reason. I think teams are even more careful to call it verbal agreements after that lawsuit, though the Angels employees went above the verbal nature of the agreement. Also there was a staff change for the Angels which complicated things.
If I remember correctly Daniel Flores was rumored to the Rangers early and then was changed to the Red Sox later. Doubt we’ll get the full Ruiz story but it’s not really as abnormal as it seems.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 21, 2023 17:46:58 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 22, 2023 11:40:32 GMT -5
This happens more than people realize it’s a verbal agreement for a reason. I think teams are even more careful to call it verbal agreements after that lawsuit, though the Angels employees went above the verbal nature of the agreement. Also there was a staff change for the Angels which complicated things. If I remember correctly Daniel Flores was rumored to the Rangers early and then was changed to the Red Sox later. Doubt we’ll get the full Ruiz story but it’s not really as abnormal as it seems. Wasn't it the Mets? At any rate, there is not even remotely enough out there to speculate on, and my guess is we'll never know, because the literal answer is that he wasn't technically signed with the Red Sox at any point.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 22, 2023 14:25:37 GMT -5
Wasn't it the Mets? At any rate, there is not even remotely enough out there to speculate on, and my guess is we'll never know, because the literal answer is that he wasn't technically signed with the Red Sox at any point. I searched the forum and it was the Rangers. forum.soxprospects.com/post/253262/thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 22, 2023 17:54:52 GMT -5
OK. They signed someone who'd been headed to the Mets. Mata?
Edit: No, he was the Brewers. My hearty thanks to anyone who figures out who I'm trying to remember.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2023 18:56:23 GMT -5
Daniel Flores is a sad story I was doing cartwheels when Red Sox signed him. I knew how my dad felt when Len Bias died even though Len did it to himself.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 30, 2023 9:56:11 GMT -5
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 30, 2023 10:16:59 GMT -5
That's a big 17 year old! Sheesh!
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jan 30, 2023 11:03:07 GMT -5
Not spending all the teams International money the first week is not stupid.
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Post by ltlurker on Jan 30, 2023 11:12:41 GMT -5
OK. They signed someone who'd been headed to the Mets. Mata? Edit: No, he was the Brewers. My hearty thanks to anyone who figures out who I'm trying to remember. I believe MLB had Daniel Flores tied to the Sox when this list came out last year. Badler had them tied to the Rangers earlier (like in February). I'm pretty sure Jesse Sanchez got them all correct last year. You are correct. No idea why I keep changing Mets to Rangers on that too. I've been corrected multiple times now. You’re probably remembering that you thought it was the Mets with Flores at the time? forum.soxprospects.com/thread/4288/2018-19-international-signing-thread?q=Mets
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jan 30, 2023 11:13:37 GMT -5
Daniel Flores is a sad story I was doing cartwheels when Red Sox signed him. I knew how my dad felt when Len Bias died even though Len did it to himself. Did you record these cartwheels? Being a Boston fan is tough at times. I'm rarely excited when we draft or sign a catcher. It's the hardest position to evaluate and project. The excitement when the Celtics got such a high lottery pick was exciting. Then they got a generational player who passes away really hit me hard. I never touched a drug.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 30, 2023 11:27:06 GMT -5
Someone needs to find out if those figures are legit...
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 30, 2023 11:52:28 GMT -5
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