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Patriots 2022 Season Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 20, 2022 5:52:15 GMT -5
Is he really worse this year and a bullet dodged, or is it truly the Patriots system maximizing value on everyone? I always think this is why it’s so hard for us to resign our players - they want to be paid for the production they provide the Pats and we don’t want to give credit for what’s above that baseline. How many have met expectations after leaving us? It can’t be a long list, I’ll start it with Chandler Jones. Ninko was on a pod with Chris Long a couple months back and talked on this very topic, as it pertained to him. Long was chiding him for passing up better $$$ elsewhere and Ninko admitted he was afraid to go elsewhere and fail (as he had prior to coming to Patriots). He didn't know if he could have a career elsewhere (plus he sounded as if he felt somewhat indebted to BB for his success). Love Ninko. Darius Butler has also roundabout spoken on the topic -- ie, he "didn't take the coaching" and so had to go elsewhere to make a career. Pats are very insistent on the technique they teach, which, likely contributes to the 2nd round pick churn, several of whom, like Butler, go on to have useful careers elsewhere. I'll also speculate they "trait-chase" on some of these 2nd rounders, probably feeling they can always sign an UDFA like JC and coach 'em up to useful or better. Btw, JC was not a "lockdown" corner here, 'tho he left & got paid like one. On the rare occasions he got a man-to-man assignment on a top receiver it didn't go well. Wasn't he the worst defender on the field in both late year Buffalo games? Diggs just killed him. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine and useful player and I was sad to see him go. But I'm also not surprised he's struggled. He's just not that good. Bryant was the worst defender on the field |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Oct 20, 2022 9:10:51 GMT -5
Ninko was on a pod with Chris Long a couple months back and talked on this very topic, as it pertained to him. Long was chiding him for passing up better $$$ elsewhere and Ninko admitted he was afraid to go elsewhere and fail (as he had prior to coming to Patriots). He didn't know if he could have a career elsewhere (plus he sounded as if he felt somewhat indebted to BB for his success). Love Ninko. Darius Butler has also roundabout spoken on the topic -- ie, he "didn't take the coaching" and so had to go elsewhere to make a career. Pats are very insistent on the technique they teach, which, likely contributes to the 2nd round pick churn, several of whom, like Butler, go on to have useful careers elsewhere. I'll also speculate they "trait-chase" on some of these 2nd rounders, probably feeling they can always sign an UDFA like JC and coach 'em up to useful or better. Btw, JC was not a "lockdown" corner here, 'tho he left & got paid like one. On the rare occasions he got a man-to-man assignment on a top receiver it didn't go well. Wasn't he the worst defender on the field in both late year Buffalo games? Diggs just killed him. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine and useful player and I was sad to see him go. But I'm also not surprised he's struggled. He's just not that good. Bryant was the worst defender on the field Isaiah McKenzie had him in a cocoon of horror |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 20, 2022 10:01:55 GMT -5
Is he really worse this year and a bullet dodged, or is it truly the Patriots system maximizing value on everyone? I always think this is why it’s so hard for us to resign our players - they want to be paid for the production they provide the Pats and we don’t want to give credit for what’s above that baseline. How many have met expectations after leaving us? It can’t be a long list, I’ll start it with Chandler Jones. Ninko was on a pod with Chris Long a couple months back and talked on this very topic, as it pertained to him. Long was chiding him for passing up better $$$ elsewhere and Ninko admitted he was afraid to go elsewhere and fail (as he had prior to coming to Patriots). He didn't know if he could have a career elsewhere (plus he sounded as if he felt somewhat indebted to BB for his success). Love Ninko. Darius Butler has also roundabout spoken on the topic -- ie, he "didn't take the coaching" and so had to go elsewhere to make a career. Pats are very insistent on the technique they teach, which, likely contributes to the 2nd round pick churn, several of whom, like Butler, go on to have useful careers elsewhere. I'll also speculate they "trait-chase" on some of these 2nd rounders, probably feeling they can always sign an UDFA like JC and coach 'em up to useful or better. Btw, JC was not a "lockdown" corner here, 'tho he left & got paid like one. On the rare occasions he got a man-to-man assignment on a top receiver it didn't go well. Wasn't he the worst defender on the field in both late year Buffalo games? Diggs just killed him. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine and useful player and I was sad to see him go. But I'm also not surprised he's struggled. He's just not that good. The minute Gilmore got injured, Jackson took his place as #1 CB and they used him the same way. He had a grand total of one bad game, that wasn't last year, it was the year before against the NFL leading receiver in yards. His first game as number one CB and it never happened again. Bryant was the worst defender and he's once again our worst defender. Jackson in our system was absolutely a #1 shutdown man cover corner that got a ton of interceptions and for four straight years had one of the lowest QB rating allowed in the whole league. I don't know if he's injured, they are using him differently or what is going on. He certainly sucks this year on that team, like others have pointed out a common theme over the years. Let's not make up stuff and discredit his time here. There are almost no players that do better, Butler is the exception not the rule. Top 3 CB in 20 plus years as Patriot fan Gilmore, Law and Jackson, the first two are HOF type players. In recent memory Flowers, Van Noy, Collins, they all got big money deals. They all didn't live up to them and got released. Bills the best coach in the league. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 20, 2022 10:15:42 GMT -5
Lots of reports about other teams calling about Bourne and Agholor. I'm not trading Bourne unless it's a big offer and that's not likely. Yet do you trade Agholor? I say yes. I'm over the drops, tips for interceptions and fumbles. Give Thornton and Bourne his playing time, you still have Nixon for Depth.
Not good for Strong that Harris off the practice squad played 3 times the snaps.
Henry explains his slow start. Had offseason surgery and is just now at 100%. Here I am blaming MP when it was a physical issue.
Can we give MP some props for his adjustments and what his done with a rookie QB?
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Post by texs31 on Oct 20, 2022 10:25:56 GMT -5
When I'm too old to remember the career arcs of James White, Shane Vereen and, even, Kevin Faulk, I'll get worried about a 3rd Down back being a bust in their rookie year. For now . . .
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 20, 2022 20:07:58 GMT -5
Ninko was on a pod with Chris Long a couple months back and talked on this very topic, as it pertained to him. Long was chiding him for passing up better $$$ elsewhere and Ninko admitted he was afraid to go elsewhere and fail (as he had prior to coming to Patriots). He didn't know if he could have a career elsewhere (plus he sounded as if he felt somewhat indebted to BB for his success). Love Ninko. Darius Butler has also roundabout spoken on the topic -- ie, he "didn't take the coaching" and so had to go elsewhere to make a career. Pats are very insistent on the technique they teach, which, likely contributes to the 2nd round pick churn, several of whom, like Butler, go on to have useful careers elsewhere. I'll also speculate they "trait-chase" on some of these 2nd rounders, probably feeling they can always sign an UDFA like JC and coach 'em up to useful or better. Btw, JC was not a "lockdown" corner here, 'tho he left & got paid like one. On the rare occasions he got a man-to-man assignment on a top receiver it didn't go well. Wasn't he the worst defender on the field in both late year Buffalo games? Diggs just killed him. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine and useful player and I was sad to see him go. But I'm also not surprised he's struggled. He's just not that good. The minute Gilmore got injured, Jackson took his place as #1 CB and they used him the same way. He had a grand total of one bad game, that wasn't last year, it was the year before against the NFL leading receiver in yards. His first game as number one CB and it never happened again. Bryant was the worst defender and he's once again our worst defender. Jackson in our system was absolutely a #1 shutdown man cover corner that got a ton of interceptions and for four straight years had one of the lowest QB rating allowed in the whole league. I don't know if he's injured, they are using him differently or what is going on. He certainly sucks this year on that team, like others have pointed out a common theme over the years. Let's not make up stuff and discredit his time here. There are almost no players that do better, Butler is the exception not the rule. Top 3 CB in 20 plus years as Patriot fan Gilmore, Law and Jackson, the first two are HOF type players. In recent memory Flowers, Van Noy, Collins, they all got big money deals. They all didn't live up to them and got released. Bills the best coach in the league. I highlighted the text showing I have zero interest in "discrediting his time here." I enjoyed rooting for JC. As to #1 CB, the HC is on (recent) record not believing in such. And my observation is he more frequently deployed his best coverage match-up player that week against the 2nd most dangerous WR while shading coverage to the best WR. I saw it 1st hand in KC -- Jon Jones had Hill, JC had Kelce (I'd have thought Gilmore) and Gilmore had Watkins (who gave him a real bad time). My Top 5 Patriots CBs, in order: Haynes, Clayburn, Law, Gilmore/Revis (bonus points for his great career). I might be overrating RC, but I remember thinking at the time Haynes left that there was drop-off, but it wasn't severe. And Haynes was spectacular. We do agree on one thing -- Bill is the best coach. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 21, 2022 8:23:57 GMT -5
Carolina traded McCaffery, to the 49ers for 2nd,3rd,4th in 2023 and 5th in 2024
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Post by costpet on Oct 21, 2022 8:36:01 GMT -5
The Patriots own Carolina's 3rd and 6th round picks next year. If they end up with the worst record, we'll have the first picks in each of those rounds.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 21, 2022 11:12:28 GMT -5
The minute Gilmore got injured, Jackson took his place as #1 CB and they used him the same way. He had a grand total of one bad game, that wasn't last year, it was the year before against the NFL leading receiver in yards. His first game as number one CB and it never happened again. Bryant was the worst defender and he's once again our worst defender. Jackson in our system was absolutely a #1 shutdown man cover corner that got a ton of interceptions and for four straight years had one of the lowest QB rating allowed in the whole league. I don't know if he's injured, they are using him differently or what is going on. He certainly sucks this year on that team, like others have pointed out a common theme over the years. Let's not make up stuff and discredit his time here. There are almost no players that do better, Butler is the exception not the rule. Top 3 CB in 20 plus years as Patriot fan Gilmore, Law and Jackson, the first two are HOF type players. In recent memory Flowers, Van Noy, Collins, they all got big money deals. They all didn't live up to them and got released. Bills the best coach in the league. I highlighted the text showing I have zero interest in "discrediting his time here." I enjoyed rooting for JC. As to #1 CB, the HC is on (recent) record not believing in such. And my observation is he more frequently deployed his best coverage match-up player that week against the 2nd most dangerous WR while shading coverage to the best WR. I saw it 1st hand in KC -- Jon Jones had Hill, JC had Kelce (I'd have thought Gilmore) and Gilmore had Watkins (who gave him a real bad time). My Top 5 Patriots CBs, in order: Haynes, Clayburn, Law, Gilmore/Revis (bonus points for his great career). I might be overrating RC, but I remember thinking at the time Haynes left that there was drop-off, but it wasn't severe. And Haynes was spectacular. We do agree on one thing -- Bill is the best coach. Come on now, fine and useful, then he's just not that good. He was voted an all pro last year. That's the elite of the elite. He got payed like a #1 CB because he was one. If that were true he wouldn't have been matched up with Diggs every game and he was. Maybe Bill feels that way right now, that's not how he's coached for 20 years plus. Kinda shocked were even talking about this. Frankly it comes off as you trying to discredit Jackson again. Your example is a game when Gilmore was still here? He was clearly CB#2 till Gilmores injury. Yet do you think being matched up against Kelce is helping him or like hiding him? He's just one of the best TEs in the history of football. You're showing your age. I didn't start watching Patriots till early 90s, was born in 1982. I never saw Haynes or Clayburn even play, so I won't comment on guys I've never seen play. I'd take Jackson over Revis, mainly because we got prime aged Jackson last year, we never got prime aged Revis. He was still darn good, he just wasn't what he once was and it's one season. Jackson was an amazing man cover corner the minute he stepped on the field. It was like with Jack Jones, you knew almost immediately the guy is darn good. Jackson has some weaknesses like not good in zone, not great in run support, yet he did improve over the years. He was an amazing man cover corner that was also an elite playmaker. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 21, 2022 11:15:37 GMT -5
The Patriots own Carolina's 3rd and 6th round picks next year. If they end up with the worst record, we'll have the first picks in each of those rounds. The funny part is they traded up to take a QB who's on IR and we used the pick we got back to take Zappe. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 21, 2022 12:15:52 GMT -5
I wouldn’t mind the Pats asking about Shaq Thompson.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Oct 21, 2022 14:48:22 GMT -5
I wouldn’t mind the Pats asking about Shaq Thompson. Soxprospects reunion! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 21, 2022 23:02:47 GMT -5
I was so excited for the fake Wynn traded to Eagle rumors.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 22, 2022 9:49:49 GMT -5
I was so excited for the fake Wynn traded to Eagle rumors. I’ll do you one better package deal Wynn and Agholor for some deflated footballs. |
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Post by costpet on Oct 22, 2022 9:56:26 GMT -5
In 2023 the Pats have 11 draft picks including 3 4's and 3 6's and 2 7's. If Jackson plays enough snaps, his 4 could change into a 3. They could use some of them to trade for a need at the trade deadline, or just keep them all. Personally, I would just keep them for now.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 23, 2022 15:52:20 GMT -5
Brady pounded by the Panthers. LMAO!!!
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 23, 2022 16:56:07 GMT -5
He should have stayed retired. Last season it was the lame defense that kept him out of the Super Bowl where he well might have won an eighth ring. But he still would have gone out on the top of his game. Now he has apparently sacrificed his marriage, or at least any chance of saving it, for this disasterous season. It's just sad, but hubris is a strong and cruel force.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 23, 2022 19:33:22 GMT -5
JC Jackson dislocated his kneecap, per Rap.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Oct 23, 2022 21:13:45 GMT -5
Feel really bad for JC, that’s a rough injury
Breece Hall blew out his knee it would appear
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Post by texs31 on Oct 24, 2022 7:29:51 GMT -5
Collins elevated for tonight's game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 24, 2022 10:29:18 GMT -5
That's rough for Jackson and means no third round pick for us right?
Highly unlikely yet I'm calling to see what it cost to get Claypool. Bill did compare him to Gronk, trade Agholor to Packers and add Claypool. Good luck trying to matchup with those receivers and TEs, while also stoping the run.
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Post by costpet on Oct 24, 2022 10:36:31 GMT -5
Looks like Jones is starting tonight. That's good, but I hope he isn't too rusty. It might take him a while to get into the swing of things.
I think our strength this year is our defense. The offense is a work in progress. Maybe tonight things get straightened out.
I like how Bill is comparing this year's Bears to the '85 Bears. You knew that would happen. That's Bill.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 24, 2022 13:45:15 GMT -5
Looks like Jones is starting tonight. That's good, but I hope he isn't too rusty. It might take him a while to get into the swing of things. I think our strength this year is our defense. The offense is a work in progress. Maybe tonight things get straightened out. I like how Bill is comparing this year's Bears to the '85 Bears. You knew that would happen. That's Bill. The Bears have one of the leagues best pass defenses… the situation is ripe for the passing game to struggle after going against 2 bad defenses and looking good. Then the narrative will be how bad Mac is compared to Zappe… can’t wait |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Oct 24, 2022 14:31:59 GMT -5
If they run the same offense they’ve run the past two weeks for Zappe they’ll be fine. Good balance, PLAY ACTION FROM UNDER CENTER. Keep it simple, let the defense win tonight
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Oct 24, 2022 18:52:45 GMT -5
Patellar tendon rupture for JC. Brutal.
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