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Post by 07redsox on Oct 16, 2022 7:45:43 GMT -5
My curmudgeonly opinion is that the Phillies are a pretty mediocre team and the new playoff system getting them into the NLCS instead of an actual quality team is not very good for baseball. The bright side is that everything the Phillies do well makes Joe Girardi look more and more incompetent. While I understand your point completely and in some ways don’t necessarily disagree with it, I think saying it’s not very good for baseball isn’t very true either depending on perspective. These games so far have been spectacularly fun and exciting to watch. I know personally I wouldn’t have cared for an NLCS as much as I will this one if it featured the Dodgers. I think there are many people who greatly enjoy seeing the underdog win or different teams making it further in the playoffs each year, rather than see the same Dodgers v Astros WS over and over again. If it’s not the Sox, then I pretty much always root for the underdog in each series during the playoffs. The playoff system/seeding may need some work, but something like this happening can really only happen in baseball, which is why I partly feel it is wonderful to see and can be very good for the game. Even the best team is still going to be defeated from time to time because their win percentage isn’t usually all that far off from a coin flip depending on matchups, starters, etc. That’s just not all that true in other sports for the most part. For people who always want it to be the best team winning, I can definitely see why it’s not all that good for the sport. However, because of the differences compared to other sports, I’m not entirely sure how many people actually want to see the best team win anyway. The fact that upsets can and somewhat regularly do happen in baseball during the playoffs probably leads to this. I’m not sure how the seeding can be changed to make this happen other than going back to earlier playoff systems with less teams, but even those had their problems as well.
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Post by rjw on Oct 16, 2022 7:51:36 GMT -5
Just going to watch this on repeat for a few hours Loved the guy on the right. Before the ball touched the outfield grass he knew it was over and immediately moved on to his texts.
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Post by manfred on Oct 16, 2022 8:20:04 GMT -5
I’m not sure the Padres are an example of “just get in.” This team is a juggernaut that partly under-achieved and partly just is in a division with another juggernaut.
One thing the Padres and Phillies have in common was going all in. Turns out it was worth it.
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Post by patford on Oct 16, 2022 8:31:45 GMT -5
And just like that the Red Sox had a better season than the Dodgers.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 16, 2022 9:02:32 GMT -5
Only the one disappointment out of 4 so far. Go Cle!
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Post by manfred on Oct 16, 2022 9:05:01 GMT -5
And just like that the Red Sox had a better season than the Dodgers. That’s one way to look at it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 16, 2022 9:37:31 GMT -5
What an exciting night of baseball.
Still can't figure out why Holmes is on the roster if they're not going to use him in crucial situations. He said he was healthy enough to pitch. I sometimes think that Boone and Cashman are too much a slave to whoever they listen to. Holmes said he felt good enough to pitch so I don't get it. All I can do is hope that Cleveland has one more big win in them and then I can truly enjoy the post-season.
The Astros/Mariners game was amazing in that every pitcher they put in could do the job. The Sox had like two or three relievers you could count on and then it was torch time. These teams are putting in 6 or 7 guys coming in with good stuff and good numbers. Deep pens. The Sox have a long way to go to match that.
If the Astros do win I'd be happy for Dusty Baker and that's about it.
I think if Cleveland can get in and win that would definitely cement Terry Francona's spot in the HOF - if he's not already in anyways.
The Padres/Phillies NLCS matchup is a surprise.
It's funny - one is conditioned to build the best team possible and the Dodgers and Braves do it the right way, and they still get bounced. Atlanta wins 88 and takes the championship. The next year they win 101 and get bounced.
The Dodgers are a freaking juggernaut - the new Braves from the 1990s? Yet they have one championship from a year nobody cared about.
Maybe it's a punishment for winning in 1988 with a team that felt like Hershiser, Gibson, and an expansion team.
Maybe 2021 was an award for Atlanta for being aggravated for only winning once despite 14 years in a row of division titles.
Somehow the Red Sox follow a more traditional path. Be the best team. Win the World Series. In 2007, 2013, and 2018 the Sox were the best team in all of baseball and won the Series. Only in 2004 they weren't although they were hardly some 88 win team. Thinking back, only in 1946 were they the best team and didn't win.
So what's the message? Build a flawed team and hope they catch lightning in a bottle come October? Build a team like the Dodgers and hope that if they knock on the door every year that sooner or later they win one or that the baseball gods reward them afterwards the next time they build an 85 win team that goes all the way?
Well at least the 2018 Red Sox can still lay claim to being the winningest World Champion of this century - with their 119 total wins. The M's won 121 but didn't even make the Series. The Dodgers were stopped cold at 112.
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 16, 2022 9:37:44 GMT -5
22 - 111 wins, lose in DS 21 - 106 wins, lose in CS 20 - Season was cancelled 19 - 106 wins, lose in DS 18 - 92 wins, lose in WS 17 - 104 wins, lose in WS 16 - 91 wins, lose in CS 15 - 92 wins, lose in DS 14 - 94 wins, lose in DS 13 - 92 wins, lose in CS Real 90s Braves stuff. Has to be frustrating for them..
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Post by manfred on Oct 16, 2022 9:41:26 GMT -5
Cole with the season on the line has potential to be extra delicious.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 16, 2022 10:24:10 GMT -5
The curse of the Bambino solved by 4 WS championships won under Henry ownership. The new curse of Dombrowski started in 2020 will be solved by the next home grown core of prospects….. Ha. The Curse of Dombrowski isn't a thing, unless you believe that winning division titles and a World Series is a curse. I don't have rooting interests in baseball outside the Red Sox. so it doesn't matter to me if he wins or not. This is just having a little fun with the virulent anti-Dombrowski members on this site. It’s not the Curse Of Dombrowski anyway; It’s the curse of Mookie. Also, Dombrowski built the best team in the history of the franchise(with a little help from Cora’s sign stealing racket). I’m still a fan of his. P.S. Mookie, himself, sure seems to basically disappear in the postseason. I especially remember it in 2018 when Steve Pearce and JBJ got big hit after big hit. Mookie never really had a moment.
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Post by benzinger on Oct 16, 2022 10:55:38 GMT -5
My curmudgeonly opinion is that the Phillies are a pretty mediocre team and the new playoff system getting them into the NLCS instead of an actual quality team is not very good for baseball. The bright side is that everything the Phillies do well makes Joe Girardi look more and more incompetent. I don’t get this take. The Phillies are 5-1 this postseason and have steamrolled STL AND ATL without homefield advantage in either series. They have Nola & Wheeler for elite starters, one of the best players in the game in Harper and one of the deepest lineups in the game, as well. This is not some fringe team. Also, the regular season is the marathon, but now we see how teams do in the sprint of a short series. The Phillies have simply dominated in that format. The “best” team doesn’t always win, but that’s why they play the games. Otherwise we can just skip the season and let the Dodgers and Astros play for the title every year.
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 16, 2022 11:04:18 GMT -5
At the trade deadline the Indians Guardians had a 5% chance of winning the DS, the Phillies a 9% and the Padres an 18%. I love baseball.
EDIT: Guardians not Indians... unintentional, my bad.
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 16, 2022 11:11:32 GMT -5
The real measure of a team is the regular season. Baseball tournaments are extremely fun though, and they're more fun the more important you think they are.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 16, 2022 11:21:21 GMT -5
Cole with the season on the line has potential to be extra delicious. Then Cashman goes back to those sleepless nights. That’s all the MFY’S have in the postseason. Tito will own Boone.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 16, 2022 11:22:23 GMT -5
22 - 111 wins, lose in DS 21 - 106 wins, lose in CS 20 - Season was cancelled 19 - 106 wins, lose in DS 18 - 92 wins, lose in WS 17 - 104 wins, lose in WS 16 - 91 wins, lose in CS 15 - 92 wins, lose in DS 14 - 94 wins, lose in DS 13 - 92 wins, lose in CS Real 90s Braves stuff. Has to be frustrating for them.. My neighbor is a big Doyers fan, grew up in LA. He definitely celebrated the 2020 43-win team but recognizes that it was a bit of a false victory. Before the playoffs, I told him "Wow, they're a real juggernaut this year!" and his reply was "Yeah, they're a great regular-season team." Shades of pre-'04 Sox fan fatalism, as well.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 16, 2022 11:28:48 GMT -5
I mean Roberts got outmanaged and they got kinda screwed by the seeding process. They obviously have gotten bounced in the playoffs, but they also navigated the weird, more-difficult 2020 playoff baloney. The thing is, if the 1940s and 1950s have this playoff season then the Yankees probably win like two or three World Series in that stretch. Hard to think people are more romantic about that era if the fifth and seventh-best teams in baseball were the ones playing the World Series and knocking out the excellent teams several rounds before the Series.
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 16, 2022 11:28:55 GMT -5
At the trade deadline the Indians had a 5% chance of winning the DS, the Phillies a 9% and the Padres an 18%. I love baseball. Attention incandenza, for your future baseball arguments
The Cleveland Baseball Team had almost the exact same postseason odds as the Red Sox at the trade deadline
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,961
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Post by cdj on Oct 16, 2022 11:29:55 GMT -5
Poor dodgers, couldn’t be us
Also when is Mookie gonna face some heat for being a bad playoff performer? Because as soxstats also pointed out- that dude has a brutal line without the fake covid seasons playoffs. WITH that playoffs included he’s still a worse hitter than Verdugo was this year, who constantly got flack this season for his batting line
Only 10 more years and 300 more million left!
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 16, 2022 11:32:15 GMT -5
I think one thing that frustrates some fans about seeing juggernaut teams bow out in the playoffs, especially teams like LAD, is that in the playoffs you can throw the analytics out the window. It's all about clutch (or unclutch) performances. Analytics needs a 162-game season to really work. The playoffs are a SSS but sometimes a very fun SSS, like this year is shaping up to be. Give me great performances under the brightest lights.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Oct 16, 2022 11:32:39 GMT -5
My curmudgeonly opinion is that the Phillies are a pretty mediocre team and the new playoff system getting them into the NLCS instead of an actual quality team is not very good for baseball. The bright side is that everything the Phillies do well makes Joe Girardi look more and more incompetent. While I understand your point completely and in some ways don’t necessarily disagree with it, I think saying it’s not very good for baseball isn’t very true either depending on perspective. These games so far have been spectacularly fun and exciting to watch. I know personally I wouldn’t have cared for an NLCS as much as I will this one if it featured the Dodgers. I think there are many people who greatly enjoy seeing the underdog win or different teams making it further in the playoffs each year, rather than see the same Dodgers v Astros WS over and over again. If it’s not the Sox, then I pretty much always root for the underdog in each series during the playoffs. The playoff system/seeding may need some work, but something like this happening can really only happen in baseball, which is why I partly feel it is wonderful to see and can be very good for the game. Even the best team is still going to be defeated from time to time because their win percentage isn’t usually all that far off from a coin flip depending on matchups, starters, etc. That’s just not all that true in other sports for the most part. For people who always want it to be the best team winning, I can definitely see why it’s not all that good for the sport. However, because of the differences compared to other sports, I’m not entirely sure how many people actually want to see the best team win anyway. The fact that upsets can and somewhat regularly do happen in baseball during the playoffs probably leads to this. I’m not sure how the seeding can be changed to make this happen other than going back to earlier playoff systems with less teams, but even those had their problems as well. I agree with this in spirit and for the most part. But one thing I don't like is after the wild card round it does not make sense to have 5 game series. From my perspective you have as many wild card teams as possilbe playing in this round and the shorter a series is the easier it is for the underdog to win. Now I generally would root for the underdog as you do but I want them to earn it afterall the other teams generally speaking have won more games and therefore have earned the right to not have the system be created to make it easier for the underdog team to beat them by making it a shorter series. For those complaining the series would extend to late into the calender year the difference is at most potentially 2 games.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 16, 2022 11:35:37 GMT -5
Fun fact, Mookie Betts played 4 games, average .143, 14 at bats, 2 hits, 1 double, 0 hr, 1 rbi, 3 bb, 4k, 1cs, .278 obp .214 slg , .492 ops .
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 16, 2022 11:41:31 GMT -5
I mean Roberts got outmanaged and they got kinda screwed by the seeding process. They obviously have gotten bounced in the playoffs, but they also navigated the weird, more-difficult 2020 playoff baloney. The thing is, if the 1940s and 1950s have this playoff season then the Yankees probably win like two or three World Series in that stretch. Hard to think people are more romantic about that era if the fifth and seventh-best teams in baseball were the ones playing the World Series and knocking out the excellent teams several rounds before the Series. I bet the 5th and 7th best teams' fans would disagree. The Padres radio booth kept saying "They slayed the dragon!" at the end of last night's game. I bet we would have shouted the same thing if the 1949-51 Red Sox could've gotten and gone on a run. Indeed, the 1949 team's Pythagorean record was better than the Yankees'...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 16, 2022 11:42:40 GMT -5
Fun fact, Mookie Betts played 4 games, average .143, 14 at bats, 2 hits, 1 double, 0 hr, 1 rbi, 3 bb, 4k, 1cs, .278 obp .214 slg , .492 ops . It's a business.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 16, 2022 11:50:25 GMT -5
All I'm saying is, when the Red Sox are cruising toward like 88 wins and the second wild card next season, I better not hear one word about how they don't "have what it takes to make a deep playoff run."
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 16, 2022 11:52:01 GMT -5
I bet the 5th and 7th best teams' fans would disagree. I mean this in a constructive way... so what? Spreading out championship trophies amongst teams of varying quality in order to make those fans feel good isn't really a goal of sporting competition. And, while I have nothing else to back this up, it doesn't seem to me like it would be a great business model. The best basketball and football teams playing at or near the end every year builds up a lot more excitement, it feels like a bigger deal when a team breaks through, and when a big upset does happen it feels like a big upset. The best team in the league not making it to the conference finals year after year doesn't feel like a feature to me. I bet we would have shouted the same thing if the 1949-51 Red Sox could've gotten and gone on a run Instead of a playoff system that could've given them a chance to beat a better team, they could've made the available moves to become the better team. www.espn.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/36622/george-digby-and-willie-mays-the-one-who-got-away----- Now, I'm not saying that we need to go back to a no-playoffs, best AL Team vs. best NL Team format. But the 12th best of 30 teams having essentially the same chance to win a World Series as the 5th? I dunno, that's a pretty big dropoff to me.
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