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2022-2023 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by pokeyreesespieces12 on Dec 21, 2022 8:19:16 GMT -5
Wow, the Mets are resembling a fantasy league team. The spending is comical, but I'll say this. Their owner truly wants to win, very badly. That's his primary focus. I wish I could say that about the Sox ownership today. I used to feel that way about them. Back in 2002, 2003, 2004, you could feel that was their main quest. Now the Sox are merely one of their many properties in a growing conglomerate. I guess Devers to the Mets is still a go if it comes down to a trade as the Mets could shift Correa to 2b and McNeil to LF to displace Canha who is merely good, but not an all star, and Baty would be easily available, although their plan at the moment is to shift Baty to LF. Eventually Alvarez will come up and give them all star caliber at every position. It's mind blowing. You can't say that Cohen isn't doing everything in his power to help his team win.
I mean, it's just the clearest picture we've ever had of the actual financial status of these teams -- and how well the public perception of the luxury tax and Billionaire's budgets have worked in the owners' favors.
The Red Sox chose a few years ago to zig, and Cohen is about to force other big market teams to zag here shortly, at least in the short term, so we all shouldn't love this new identity of Red Sox ownership staying out of star contracts. We've already seen a little bit of what we may see a lot more of in the next few years, the Sox getting outbid on mid tier guys like Raley, Elfin, Abreu, etc, and the Sox kinda piecing the team together with plan B's, C's, and maybe even D's.
We can still all be fans of responsible spending and team building -- but when it comes down to it, the Red Sox have chosen a higher degree of difficulty for team building here and put themselves at a disadvantage. Big contracts aren't all bad, and having that in your back pocket for the right player, is an advantage no matter how you square it.
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Post by chr31ter on Dec 21, 2022 8:35:06 GMT -5
The Giants signed "Arson Judge" for a couple of hours, and Carlos Correa for a couple of days.
And people think we've had a rough winter.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Dec 21, 2022 8:41:53 GMT -5
What the hell? That’s not what I expected to wake up to. Comical spending by the Mets. We’ll see what this brings in 5 years.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces12 on Dec 21, 2022 9:18:56 GMT -5
What the hell? That’s not what I expected to wake up to. Comical spending by the Mets. We’ll see what this brings in 5 years.
Likely a re-invigorated fanbase, record revenues, and possibly a World Series title or two
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 21, 2022 9:57:44 GMT -5
Wow, the Mets are resembling a fantasy league team. The spending is comical, but I'll say this. Their owner truly wants to win, very badly. That's his primary focus. I wish I could say that about the Sox ownership today. I used to feel that way about them. Back in 2002, 2003, 2004, you could feel that was their main quest. Now the Sox are merely one of their many properties in a growing conglomerate. I guess Devers to the Mets is still a go if it comes down to a trade as the Mets could shift Correa to 2b and McNeil to LF to displace Canha who is merely good, but not an all star, and Baty would be easily available, although their plan at the moment is to shift Baty to LF. Eventually Alvarez will come up and give them all star caliber at every position. It's mind blowing. You can't say that Cohen isn't doing everything in his power to help his team win.
I mean, it's just the clearest picture we've ever had of the actual financial status of these teams -- and how well the public perception of the luxury tax and Billionaire's budgets have worked in the owners' favors.
The Red Sox chose a few years ago to zig, and Cohen is about to force other big market teams to zag here shortly, at least in the short term, so we all shouldn't love this new identity of Red Sox ownership staying out of star contracts. We've already seen a little bit of what we may see a lot more of in the next few years, the Sox getting outbid on mid tier guys like Raley, Elfin, Abreu, etc, and the Sox kinda piecing the team together with plan B's, C's, and maybe even D's.
We can still all be fans of responsible spending and team building -- but when it comes down to it, the Red Sox have chosen a higher degree of difficulty for team building here and put themselves at a disadvantage. Big contracts aren't all bad, and having that in your back pocket for the right player, is an advantage no matter how you square it.
First of all. To this point, what do you mean “these teams”? Very few teams outside of New York, if any, could consistently make this work and there’s a chance that in the long run even Cohen can’t! Stop chasing the shiny object, this is all obviously very fun but they spent a lot last year too and we saw how that worked out for them. The Dodgers have proven pretty consistently over the last few years that you can have a team that is clearly better on paper than everyone else and it doesn’t guarantee anything. Which is why, to your other point in a later comment, saying that they’ll come out of this with “likely” a World Series, even TWO, is pretty absurd. Just not how baseball works, even if they have the best individual odds next year their total odds of winning are still probably, what, 10%? If I could put money on it, the smart bet would be that they do NOT win one in the next five years. And maybe they do! They should certainly have a great team. But again I think you’re just chasing the proverbial shiny objective and being a little unreasonable about this because you think that the Red Sox should be doing it too.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 21, 2022 10:38:21 GMT -5
theathletic.com/3182166/2022/03/14/how-does-the-new-cba-affect-the-mets-specifically/As we are remember during the CBA negations the owners and MLBPA agreed to add what at the time was coined the "Steve Cohen Tax".. As the Athletic quote above notes, it seems like it was done as a Just in case, since nobody expected the mets to spend as much as they did this offseason even with that new "Steve Cohen" tax added in.. Also during those same negotiations owners and the MLBPA briefly discussed a (salary floor) that of course went nowhere... This does have me wondering if this lead to the possibility of a salary cap and Floor being bit more likely to be implemented during the next CBA talks.. ( I would assume any Salary cap or floor would need to be modeled after the NBA or NHL (since both leagues have teams based in Canada) so the floor and cap would need to fluctuate depending on the global market and not just the US)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 11:24:21 GMT -5
Was looking at Fangraphs free agent tracker and realized Mets are going to net 2 Qualifying offer draft picks (DeGrom, Bassitt). None of the guys they signed required giving up draft compensation.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 21, 2022 11:26:51 GMT -5
I will be impressed if the Giants manage to keep secret what the medical issue was, even while it would help them save face.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 21, 2022 11:33:07 GMT -5
Was looking at Fangraphs free agent tracker and realized Mets are going to net 2 Qualifying offer draft picks (DeGrom, Bassitt). None of the guys they signed required giving up draft compensation. Classic Cohen - subtly working the margins for any tiny advantage he can get.
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Post by patford on Dec 21, 2022 11:43:57 GMT -5
With the possible exception of one, all the teams that handed out these insane contracts will fail. Look at the Dodgers over the past few years. Aside from the little league WS in 2019 they have failed every year.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 21, 2022 11:48:35 GMT -5
With the possible exception of one, all the teams that handed out these insane contracts will fail. Look at the Dodgers over the past few years. Aside from the little league WS in 2019 they have failed every year. With the expanded playoffs this is going to be a regular theme in baseball from now on. You can build a superteam that puts together a 5-year run of 100-win seasons, and have maybe a 50% chance of winning one World Series. The reward for such a team will be years and years of fan angst and "they choked when it counted" narratives.
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Post by patford on Dec 21, 2022 15:05:31 GMT -5
With the possible exception of one, all the teams that handed out these insane contracts will fail. Look at the Dodgers over the past few years. Aside from the little league WS in 2019 they have failed every year. With the expanded playoffs this is going to be a regular theme in baseball from now on. You can build a superteam that puts together a 5-year run of 100-win seasons, and have maybe a 50% chance of winning one World Series. The reward for such a team will be years and years of fan angst and "they choked when it counted" narratives. It depends on the fan. As a long time Red Sox fan who went decades thinking the team would never get over the hump (Curse of the Babe, accompanying psychological pressure) only a World Series win is satisfying to me. Not to say losing tears me up because part of the long spell under the curse callouses some of us. And I know for a fact that if the Sox had happened to win a WS for the first time in the Covid Season it wouldn't count for me. I'd be pleased but I could never view 2019 as a real season.
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Post by curtisw on Dec 21, 2022 17:34:47 GMT -5
MFY just released Lucas Luetge to make room for Kahnle. Imagine most teams will put a claim in so we won’t get him, but would be a nice add. Honestly he was better than a bunch of guys on the free agent market in my humble opinion. Interesting DFA. Am not intimately familiar with their 40 man situation but it definitely strikes initially as odd. Relievers are volatile but Luetge seems as likely as anybody to have a decent year next year. His 2021 was better but he was still effective last year.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 21, 2022 17:37:56 GMT -5
MFY just released Lucas Luetge to make room for Kahnle. Imagine most teams will put a claim in so we won’t get him, but would be a nice add. Honestly he was better than a bunch of guys on the free agent market in my humble opinion. Interesting DFA. Am not intimately familiar with their 40 man situation but it definitely strikes initially as odd. Relievers are volatile but Luetge seems as likely as anybody to have a decent year next year. His 2021 was better but he was still effective last year. I could see Bloom trading for him. Seems like a guy who they could have gotten something for.
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Post by curtisw on Dec 21, 2022 18:44:14 GMT -5
MFY just released Lucas Luetge to make room for Kahnle. Imagine most teams will put a claim in so we won’t get him, but would be a nice add. Honestly he was better than a bunch of guys on the free agent market in my humble opinion. Interesting DFA. Am not intimately familiar with their 40 man situation but it definitely strikes initially as odd. Relievers are volatile but Luetge seems as likely as anybody to have a decent year next year. His 2021 was better but he was still effective last year. I could see Bloom trading for him. Seems like a guy who they could have gotten something for. That was my thought. They (sadly) almost for sure don’t see us as much of a threat so maybe they would flip him to us for something. It’s a weird DFA. He looks too good to be getting dumped like that. Maybe there’s stuff we just can’t know, but yeah. If not us, somebody is going to make a trade and cut the line on him I think.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 21, 2022 19:44:23 GMT -5
You know what's crazy - is that Steve Cohen has no limitations except for one thing - and it's not good for the Sox.
Apparently Steve Cohen is willing to spend on anything except Yankees free agents. I read somewhere that he was hands off on Aaron Judge because he's trying to keep a good relationship with Steinbrenner. I do wonder what happens the next time both New York teams are going after the same free agent that both teams desperately want.
Because with all the money Cohen spent, the lineup is really good, but not exactly spectacular. I mean it's not the 2003 Red Sox or 1999 Cleveland lineup.
I think the lineup is:
CF Nimmo 2b McNeil SS Lindor 1b Alonzo 3b Correa RF Marte LF Canha DH Vogelbach/Baty C Narvaez/McCann/Alvarez
Don't get me wrong - really good lineup and maybe I'm forgetting somebody in the DH spot and perhaps Alvarez is ready to become rookie of the year, but if money is no object then I'd have offered Judge in excess of 400 million. He's certainly an upgrade over Canha/DH spot.
That said, I'd be excited if I were a Mets fan. The Met may or may not win the Series, but it won't be for the lack of trying on Cohen's part. If you're a fan what else could you ask for from an owner. Certainly beats watching owners charge high ticket prices and then stuffing profits into their pockets.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 21, 2022 19:46:26 GMT -5
You know what's crazy - is that Steve Cohen has no limitations except for one thing - and it's not good for the Sox. Apparently Steve Cohen is willing to spend on anything except Yankees free agents. I read somewhere that he was hands off on Aaron Judge because he's trying to keep a good relationship with Steinbrenner. I do wonder what happens the next time both New York teams are going after the same free agent that both teams desperately want. Because with all the money Cohen spent, the lineup is really good, but not exactly spectacular. I mean it's not the 2003 Red Sox or 1999 Cleveland lineup. I think the lineup is: CF Nimmo 2b McNeil SS Lindor 1b Alonzo 3b Correa RF Marte LF Canha DH Vogelbach/Baty C Narvaez/McCann/Alvarez Don't get me wrong - really good lineup and maybe I'm forgetting somebody in the DH spot and perhaps Alvarez is ready to become rookie of the year, but if money is no object then I'd have offered Judge in excess of 400 million. He's certainly an upgrade over Canha/DH spot. Vientos is a DH option too perhaps they guy you mentioned forgetting about.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 21, 2022 20:28:14 GMT -5
You know what's crazy - is that Steve Cohen has no limitations except for one thing - and it's not good for the Sox. Apparently Steve Cohen is willing to spend on anything except Yankees free agents. I read somewhere that he was hands off on Aaron Judge because he's trying to keep a good relationship with Steinbrenner. I do wonder what happens the next time both New York teams are going after the same free agent that both teams desperately want. Because with all the money Cohen spent, the lineup is really good, but not exactly spectacular. I mean it's not the 2003 Red Sox or 1999 Cleveland lineup. I think the lineup is: CF Nimmo 2b McNeil SS Lindor 1b Alonzo 3b Correa RF Marte LF Canha DH Vogelbach/Baty C Narvaez/McCann/Alvarez Don't get me wrong - really good lineup and maybe I'm forgetting somebody in the DH spot and perhaps Alvarez is ready to become rookie of the year, but if money is no object then I'd have offered Judge in excess of 400 million. He's certainly an upgrade over Canha/DH spot. Vientos is a DH option too perhaps they guy you mentioned forgetting about. Ah yes, I can't say I forgot about him perse, but I should have included him as an option. I'm speculating but I think he's the guy Bloom wanted for JDM last July and the Mets said no, at least I think that's what happened. I could be wrong about that. I know I sure as hell would have asked for him in regards to a swap for JDM. Even if I didn't get him, I would have focused on getting something back for JDM last July.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 21, 2022 20:38:07 GMT -5
Vientos is a DH option too perhaps they guy you mentioned forgetting about. Ah yes, I can't say I forgot about him perse, but I should have included him as an option. I'm speculating but I think he's the guy Bloom wanted for JDM last July and the Mets said no, at least I think that's what happened. I could be wrong about that. I know I sure as hell would have asked for him in regards to a swap for JDM. Even if I didn't get him, I would have focused on getting something back for JDM last July. Vientos would have been nice. Probably could have slid him in to DH and saved the money used to sign turner to use elsewhere.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 21, 2022 20:48:05 GMT -5
Ah yes, I can't say I forgot about him perse, but I should have included him as an option. I'm speculating but I think he's the guy Bloom wanted for JDM last July and the Mets said no, at least I think that's what happened. I could be wrong about that. I know I sure as hell would have asked for him in regards to a swap for JDM. Even if I didn't get him, I would have focused on getting something back for JDM last July. Vientos would have been nice. Probably could have slid him in to DH and saved the money used to sign turner to use elsewhere. I suspect Bloom tried but was rebuffed but I could be wrong. Would have been a nice pickup for the Sox. I think Vientos has some good power although I don't know if he will hit enough.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 21, 2022 22:52:55 GMT -5
Cohen already trying to shed some salaries to cut costs, poverty franchise smh
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Post by manfred on Dec 21, 2022 22:58:02 GMT -5
Cohen already trying to shed some salaries to cut costs, poverty franchise smh Huh. Kinda odd pickup for the Orioles.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Dec 21, 2022 23:06:40 GMT -5
Cohen already trying to shed some salaries to cut costs, poverty franchise smh Huh. Kinda odd pickup for the Orioles. Not like they have the best catcher in baseball Or anything
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 22, 2022 6:33:07 GMT -5
Looks like it's for player to be named and the Mets paying 19 of the 24 mil left on the deal. I wouldn't have hated the sox making that deal and hoping for a bounce back. He'd be a fine backup C.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2022 7:07:03 GMT -5
Have to admit. I found it kind of jarring to see Aaron Judge be named Yankees captain without thinking the Sox should have had a similar press conference about a year ago with an extended Xander Bogaerts being given the C on his shirt for being named Red Sox captain, which like Varitek before him, he truly was. I know it's an unimportant symbolic type of thing but I really think the Sox missed the boat there in so many ways.
As an aside I could never figure out why Pedroia and Ortiz weren't named co-captains of the Sox. Pedroia and Ortiz were literally the heart and soul of the Red Sox in that era.
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