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2022-2023 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by Guidas on Nov 28, 2022 16:07:02 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Nov 28, 2022 16:09:46 GMT -5
If this is the market on Abreu - a good player clearly in decline - the Shortstops, Judge, Verlander, deGrom and Rodón will be astronomical.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 28, 2022 17:09:50 GMT -5
If this is the market on Abreu - a good player clearly in decline - the Shortstops, Judge, Verlander, deGrom and Rodón will be astronomical. That thought has crept into my mind as well unfortunately. Hopefully Bloom isn't to hesitant to get in the deep end and reel in a big fish. Hard to see the Sox being competitive next year without a big signing/trade or two.
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Post by bosox904 on Nov 28, 2022 17:47:41 GMT -5
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 28, 2022 18:11:27 GMT -5
I thought Abreu would be a good DH signing for us but not at three years and $60M. That works for the Astros because they're in GFIN mode for the next couple of years. We are not as close and I have no interest in losing the Chris Sale contract after the 2024 season only to be stuck for another year with an old, declining DH with a $20M AAV.
Unless Bloom is 100 percent committed to the idea of not having a dedicated DH, he needs to be open to the possibility that bringing back JDM might be the best way to go. Does 2 years/$30M get it done?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 28, 2022 20:48:53 GMT -5
I thought Abreu would be a good DH signing for us but not at three years and $60M. That works for the Astros because they're in GFIN mode for the next couple of years. We are not as close and I have no interest in losing the Chris Sale contract after the 2024 season only to be stuck for another year with an old, declining DH with a $20M AAV. Unless Bloom is 100 percent committed to the idea of not having a dedicated DH, he needs to be open to the possibility that bringing back JDM might be the best way to go. Does 2 years/$30M get it done? Bloom isn't bringing JD back. Having an open DH spot like the Rays have done for years has pluses and minuses. I think JD goes to LA Baltimore or San Diego at this point and has a minor bounce back season.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 28, 2022 21:13:15 GMT -5
I thought Abreu would be a good DH signing for us but not at three years and $60M. That works for the Astros because they're in GFIN mode for the next couple of years. We are not as close and I have no interest in losing the Chris Sale contract after the 2024 season only to be stuck for another year with an old, declining DH with a $20M AAV. Unless Bloom is 100 percent committed to the idea of not having a dedicated DH, he needs to be open to the possibility that bringing back JDM might be the best way to go. Does 2 years/$30M get it done? JDM isn't returning, but he's probably the best available option now that Abreu is off the market. That's the issue with "the Red Sox have all this money to spend" stuff. Among the top free agent at DH is JD Martinez. Among the top catching free agents is Christian Vazquez. Among the top free agent starters outside the Verlander, Rodon, DeGrom range is Eovaldi, and another free agent pitcher is Michael Wacha, who was the best starter they had last year. And of course one of the top SS is Bogaerts. So they could blow most of their money just bringing back most of last year's team. Or they could spend a huge chunk on Judge, one of those top 3 pitchers, or Turner or Correa, and I doubt any of those guys are headed to Boston. So that means they get a bunch of mid-tier players with their money. So that would probably involve a cheap DH even though I think JD Martinez, even on the downslide, is probably better than most of what's out there. I think that JDM had some back issues last year and got into some bad mechanical issues which he seemed to fix late in the year. I could be wrong and he's going to slide even further in 2023, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he hits in the .280s with 25 homer and an OPS+ above 120. Not too many guys on the market will provide that. Brantley might, but his injury track record isn't good. I think Haniger can accomplish that but he'll cost more than JDM in my opinion - I'd take him though. Nobody is giving JDM 20 million per year. I have little doubt 30 million over 2 years gets him signed. He probably winds up with 25 million over 2 years. But I don't see Bloom spending even 12.5 million a year for a DH.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 28, 2022 21:20:46 GMT -5
I thought Abreu would be a good DH signing for us but not at three years and $60M. That works for the Astros because they're in GFIN mode for the next couple of years. We are not as close and I have no interest in losing the Chris Sale contract after the 2024 season only to be stuck for another year with an old, declining DH with a $20M AAV. Unless Bloom is 100 percent committed to the idea of not having a dedicated DH, he needs to be open to the possibility that bringing back JDM might be the best way to go. Does 2 years/$30M get it done? JDM isn't returning, but he's probably the best available option now that Abreu is off the market. That's the issue with "the Red Sox have all this money to spend" stuff. Among the top free agent at DH is JD Martinez. Among the top catching free agents is Christian Vazquez. Among the top free agent starters outside the Verlander, Rodon, DeGrom range is Eovaldi, and another free agent pitcher is Michael Wacha, who was the best starter they had last year. And of course one of the top SS is Bogaerts. So they could blow most of their money just bringing back most of last year's team. Or they could spend a huge chunk on Judge, one of those top 3 pitchers, or Turner or Correa, and I doubt any of those guys are headed to Boston. So that means they get a bunch of mid-tier players with their money. So that would probably involve a cheap DH even though I think JD Martinez, even on the downslide, is probably better than most of what's out there. I think that JDM had some back issues last year and got into some bad mechanical issues which he seemed to fix late in the year. I could be wrong and he's going to slide even further in 2023, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he hits in the .280s with 25 homer and an OPS+ above 120. Not too many guys on the market will provide that. Brantley might, but his injury track record isn't good. I think Haniger can accomplish that but he'll cost more than JDM in my opinion - I'd take him though. Nobody is giving JDM 20 million per year. I have little doubt 30 million over 2 years gets him signed. He probably winds up with 25 million over 2 years. But I don't see Bloom spending even 12.5 million a year for a DH. I really think you should psychologically prepare yourself for the likelihood that they're not going to sign a DH at all. They're just going to have to replace JDM's 1.0 WAR from last year some other way.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 28, 2022 21:46:47 GMT -5
JDM isn't returning, but he's probably the best available option now that Abreu is off the market. That's the issue with "the Red Sox have all this money to spend" stuff. Among the top free agent at DH is JD Martinez. Among the top catching free agents is Christian Vazquez. Among the top free agent starters outside the Verlander, Rodon, DeGrom range is Eovaldi, and another free agent pitcher is Michael Wacha, who was the best starter they had last year. And of course one of the top SS is Bogaerts. So they could blow most of their money just bringing back most of last year's team. Or they could spend a huge chunk on Judge, one of those top 3 pitchers, or Turner or Correa, and I doubt any of those guys are headed to Boston. So that means they get a bunch of mid-tier players with their money. So that would probably involve a cheap DH even though I think JD Martinez, even on the downslide, is probably better than most of what's out there. I think that JDM had some back issues last year and got into some bad mechanical issues which he seemed to fix late in the year. I could be wrong and he's going to slide even further in 2023, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he hits in the .280s with 25 homer and an OPS+ above 120. Not too many guys on the market will provide that. Brantley might, but his injury track record isn't good. I think Haniger can accomplish that but he'll cost more than JDM in my opinion - I'd take him though. Nobody is giving JDM 20 million per year. I have little doubt 30 million over 2 years gets him signed. He probably winds up with 25 million over 2 years. But I don't see Bloom spending even 12.5 million a year for a DH. I really think you should psychologically prepare yourself for the likelihood that they're not going to sign a DH at all. They're just going to have to replace JDM's 1.0 WAR from last year some other way. Two things: 1) I agree with you that there's a real possibility they don't get a DH and we're stuck with a Hosmer/Dalbec type platoon or we get the revolving door of fielders getting a day off from the field kind of thing. 2) Replacing JDM's 1.0 WAR with somebody else making 1.0 WAR or whatever is not exactly a lofty goal to shoot for. The Sox were mediocre last year. It would behoove the Red Sox to improve their production at DH - forget WAR because that measures defense which is meaningless for a DH. A DH has nothing to do with defense and everything to do with improving a lineup. JDM had an OPS + around 115 last year. That's something they need to improve upon and doing so with a revolving door of players is less likely for that to happen. The Sox exploited the DH advantage for years. I hate seeing the Sox give away such a potential advantage. All you have to do is find a guy who can hit. Defense doesn't matter.
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Post by xdmo on Nov 28, 2022 21:52:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame Bloom for not spending on a declining DH in the first place. We all know that Hosmer just can't be the DH. Hosmer is just Casas insurance in case he gets injured in spring training or if someone trades for Casas and gives up 2 times the value of Casas.
Going back to the Brantley example, if Bloom were to sign him for 7 million dollars a year for 2 years, get a 1-2 wins out of him, then that's a solid move. They need a GM who can rearrange the deck chairs and spend money wisely in some areas, but knows when to splurge on the right players also.
Bloom needs to prove he can splurge on a highly coveted free agent, no getting around that. This is the off-season where we will be waiting to see what happens. Story was a good start, but I don't see that as a big splurge. I'm talking about a 200+ million dollar all-star or something. Whether through trade or free agency.
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 28, 2022 23:14:10 GMT -5
I agree with you guys that Bloom is more likely to go with a rotating DH than to sign someone just for that position, especially someone like JDM, who isn't viable as an OF except in an extreme emergency.
Rotating guys in an out of the position is a better model, IMO, unless you have someone like that what's his name guy, the big dude who wore No. 34 and got a big hit or two in his career.
But here's the problem I see: The RS don't have enough talent to put out a top lineup at the non-DH positions day to day, so where is the DH going to come from? If they decide to rest X (if he's even on the team) by DH'ing him on a given day, who will the SS be? Arroyo? That's not as strong an offensive lineup as having even a declining JDM at DH.
We don't have a platoon partner for R-Ref in LF or for Dugo in RF who we could get into the lineup as a DH. We can't reasonably place the CF or C at DH (because they aren't very good hitters). Placing the 1B, Casas, at DH against a RHP leaves us with Hosmer, another light hitter at DH.
Dalbec might be a non-terrible option to get in the lineup against LHP (.755 OPS), but how about against RHP? Maybe they'll give Emmanuel Valdez a chance earn some ABs, but there's a lot of uncertainty there. Also, having Casas, Hosmer and Dalbec on the roster would be constricting, since they are all 1B.
And while I understand there will be roster additions between now and OD, Champs makes a point that I've tried to make in recent weeks: The Red Sox do not have a ton of money for roster upgrades, given the holes they have. Signing X, at least one SP, and at least one legit BP piece will eat up a lot of the money and produce a roster a lot like the one that just finished last.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 28, 2022 23:33:59 GMT -5
I agree with you guys that Bloom is more likely to go with a rotating DH than to sign someone just for that position, especially someone like JDM, who isn't viable as an OF except in an extreme emergency. Rotating guys in an out of the position is a better model, IMO, unless you have someone like that what's his name guy, the big dude who wore No. 34 and got a big hit or two in his career. But here's the problem I see: The RS don't have enough talent to put out a top lineup at the non-DH positions day to day, so where is the DH going to come from? If they decide to rest X (if he's even on the team) by DH'ing him on a given day, who will the SS be? Arroyo? That's not as strong an offensive lineup as having even a declining JDM at DH.We don't have a platoon partner for R-Ref in LF or for Dugo in RF who we could get into the lineup as a DH. We can't reasonably place the CF or C at DH (because they aren't very good hitters). Placing the 1B, Casas, at DH against a RHP leaves us with Hosmer, another light hitter at DH. Dalbec might be a non-terrible option to get in the lineup against LHP (.755 OPS), but how about against RHP? Maybe they'll give Emmanuel Valdez a chance earn some ABs, but there's a lot of uncertainty there. Also, having Casas, Hosmer and Dalbec on the roster would be constricting, since they are all 1B. And while I understand there will be roster additions between now and OD, Champs makes a point that I've tried to make in recent weeks: The Red Sox do not have a ton of money for roster upgrades, given the holes they have. Signing X, at least one SP, and at least one legit BP piece will eat up a lot of the money and produce a roster a lot like the one that just finished last. Yeah, that sums up what I'm thinking. I get the need to be cost effective, I really do, but sometimes it needs to be about winning more games, rather than winning the $/game efficiency award. It's probably cost effective not to spend much at DH and I get it but I don't think the lineup will be strong enough for DH to be mediocre and have it be alright. I think, unless there's some AAA slugger who can't field who isn't getting a shot for whatever reason, there's a need to spend about $8 million - $12 million to get a competent hitter that adds to the lineup. If I had to venture a guess perhaps Bloom gets Winker for cheap or something like that or as incandenza says, they simply don't add a DH and they rotate or do some sort of Hosmer/Dalbec type platoon. Either way it's a far cry for the kind of production the Sox have gotten out of the DH spot. I go back to Yaz when he was an asset in the DH spot. They got good seasons from Mike Easler, Don Baylor, one productive Jack Clark season, 2 productive seasons from Canseco and a good year from Reggie Jefferson and then a decade and a half of excellence from Ortiz and some strong seasons including a top 5 MVP season from JDM along with some other productive seasons - to go from that to what it seems to be shaping up is worrisome. I mean, of all the "positions", DH should be the easiest to fill.
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Post by xdmo on Nov 29, 2022 5:31:19 GMT -5
Tony Clark extended, even though he probably doesn't deserve it.
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Post by orion09 on Nov 29, 2022 5:34:01 GMT -5
Tony Clark extended, even though he probably doesn't deserve it. “Guys, this time I got it… we need to tie the salary cap *inversely* to inflation”
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Nov 29, 2022 9:18:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame Bloom for not spending on a declining DH in the first place. We all know that Hosmer just can't be the DH. Hosmer is just Casas insurance in case he gets injured in spring training or if someone trades for Casas and gives up 2 times the value of Casas. Going back to the Brantley example, if Bloom were to sign him for 7 million dollars a year for 2 years, get a 1-2 wins out of him, then that's a solid move. They need a GM who can rearrange the deck chairs and spend money wisely in some areas, but knows when to splurge on the right players also. Bloom needs to prove he can splurge on a highly coveted free agent, no getting around that. This is the off-season where we will be waiting to see what happens. Story was a good start, but I don't see that as a big splurge. I'm talking about a 200+ million dollar all-star or something. Whether through trade or free agency. More than anything, Bloom needs to sign Xander. If nothing else to show that they didn't sign Story to save money and prepare in advance for Xanders eventual departure which seems to be the most logical reasoning for signing Story. The problem here is that I don't think his arm can handle being a short stop for 162 games a year. He's injury prone but when he's healthy he's a wizard defensively. But at this point I feel like he'd profile better at 2nd. I could see a scenario where Baltimore signs Nate, Philly signs Xander and the Dodgers or Padres sign JD and Boston finds a way to pry Brandon Lowe away from Tampa.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 29, 2022 16:26:25 GMT -5
Candelario signed for 1/5 in Washington
TICK TOCK BLOOM, DO SOMETHING FOR ONCE GOSH*
*/s
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 29, 2022 19:43:05 GMT -5
Dodgers giving Shelby Miller a major league deal as a reliever
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Post by congusgambler33 on Nov 29, 2022 20:39:44 GMT -5
Easy to solve the DH dilemma. Let the pitchers hit.
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Post by GyIantosca on Nov 30, 2022 20:24:06 GMT -5
I was reading something this author said Judge is holding up everything. I don’t know how much I believe that. Baseball is a non factor. I mean I’m watching Football, Hockey, Basketball and even World Cup .
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Nov 30, 2022 21:05:37 GMT -5
Easy to solve the DH dilemma. Let the pitchers hit. Great idea! But only In the American League.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 1, 2022 10:30:51 GMT -5
RIP Gaylord Perry. Wasn't he a screwball guy?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 1, 2022 10:58:04 GMT -5
"Screwball" isn't usually the term for it but sure, a lot of his pitches featured sort of a screwball type of action.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 1, 2022 11:17:18 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 1, 2022 12:36:32 GMT -5
RIP Gaylord Perry. Wasn't he a screwball guy? Spitball was more like it. RIP Gaylord Perry
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 1, 2022 12:49:30 GMT -5
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