nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 8, 2022 15:51:32 GMT -5
This was my reaction too, but this hurts to read. I hope we hold onto every prospect we have, because I have zero confidence in the big league club over the next few years, especially compared to the current powers of the AL. Absolutely none
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Post by xdmo on Dec 8, 2022 17:21:05 GMT -5
Yeah gut reaction is that Sox love Yoshida. They were going to be the highest bidders for him anyways.
I can see Henry stepping in before this deal got done saying, "hey we need some good PR, get this deal done before the night is over because Xander is about to sign."
So the Sox threw a extra 20-30 million at Yoshida and got some good will from Sox fans, up until midnight when Xander signed.
This situation is reminding me of the Rusney Castillo situation. They had to get someone, so they got someone. Yoshida should be better than Castillo, but who knows?
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Dec 8, 2022 18:03:22 GMT -5
Is Yoshida the mid-career equivalent of Yorke?
I know nothing of this player, but looking at his stats, the thing that stands out above everything else is his consistency. His last 5 seasons look like cookie-cutter images of each other. Doesn't consistency imply a higher floor on performance?
I also wonder if Bloom is thinking about going away from three true outcomes and trying to think about OBP again as the new market inefficiency on offense, especially with shifting being toned down.
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Post by curtisw on Dec 8, 2022 18:37:21 GMT -5
Yeah I think Bloom definitely is valuing high OBP and really good hit tools and approaches. I for one do count that as a positive of his and think he’s on to something. It’s an inefficiency, and I find the argument that hit tools (the most critical in many ways and hardest to develop) are probably undervalued now and worth stocking up on. It seems to be a new club philosophy, seeing who they are drafting, trading for, and signing the last few years.
For those reasons I have faith Bloom will prove fairly correct and Yoshida will be a good signing. How good I am not sure. But I am intrigued and see what the Sox saw. They definitely love him, and I think it is fairly obvious given the number and the nature of the signing, that they loved him more than any other club.
Lastly, I am definitely feeling a little excited and while I am overall feeling pretty dark over the Xander ordeal and have a lot of questions, I am feeling like Yoshida will be a good, fun player and I am definitely allowing myself to free the homer in me and not worry too much about the clear risk also involved. For now. I also think to Manfred’s point that he will be fun to root for what I’ve read. He’s passionate, hustles hard, really hard worker. He’s definitely the main positive so far from the offseason for me.
Understand why people do question this, I won’t argue. He could be a bust. But chalk me down with those that are cautiously feeling good about this.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 8, 2022 19:07:02 GMT -5
Again,...love the hit tool. They need offense, and this guy can bring it in spades. However, this contract could look bad if the team has no one to drive him in...which it doesn't look like is much of a big deal these days.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 8, 2022 20:31:26 GMT -5
Is Yoshida the mid-career equivalent of Yorke? I know nothing of this player, but looking at his stats, the thing that stands out above everything else is his consistency. His last 5 seasons look like cookie-cutter images of each other. Doesn't consistency imply a higher floor on performance? I also wonder if Bloom is thinking about going away from three true outcomes and trying to think about OBP again as the new market inefficiency on offense, especially with shifting being toned down. Or Benintendi, without the defensive ability?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 8, 2022 20:48:16 GMT -5
Is Yoshida the mid-career equivalent of Yorke? I know nothing of this player, but looking at his stats, the thing that stands out above everything else is his consistency. His last 5 seasons look like cookie-cutter images of each other. Doesn't consistency imply a higher floor on performance? I also wonder if Bloom is thinking about going away from three true outcomes and trying to think about OBP again as the new market inefficiency on offense, especially with shifting being toned down. Or Benintendi, without the defensive ability? Have a feeling he pops more than 5 home runs…
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Post by manfred on Dec 8, 2022 21:03:37 GMT -5
Or Benintendi, without the defensive ability? Have a feeling he pops more than 5 home runs… Win a gold glove?
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 8, 2022 21:09:07 GMT -5
Have a feeling he pops more than 5 home runs… Win a gold glove? Benintnedi's gold glove is a joke, but I do hope Yoshida's defense is at Benintendi's level. For what it's worth he supposedly grades better running in than going back which should fit well at left field in Fenway.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 8, 2022 21:11:58 GMT -5
Have a feeling he pops more than 5 home runs… Win a gold glove? The comparison was made about their offensive ability
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 8, 2022 21:40:32 GMT -5
I think this guy is going to put up 2022 Bogaerts numbers. .300 15 homers 80 RBIs. He’s going to be a professional and he’s almost half the cost of Nimmo. I love this signing so much! I watched every video on this guy today and his bat speed and pop is legit. 15-20 homers .300 avg and this is an A+ signing. As long as he’s avg on D.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 8, 2022 21:45:44 GMT -5
Mlbtraderumors: Franco 1:44 Surprised how much $$ Yoshida got? Anthony Franco 1:45 A little. Would've put him below Suzuki. Different offensive profiles but I'd probably prefer the guy with a more established power track record in NPB 1:46 The error bars on those are huge though. If your team's scouts over there think he's a 70-grade hitter who could hit .300 with a .370 OBP against MLB pitching, then go big
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2022 21:47:57 GMT -5
It's kind of alarming to read how others can't believe the Sox can spend so much money on a guy who projects to be Benintendi offensively, which is funny given how the Sox weren't interested in paying him the kind of money you'd extend a player for (which is defensible) and gave him away for five nothings.
I'm going to be optimistic here and hope that the Sox are right, kind of like how a lot of people were like, they drafted Nick Yorke - who? But Yorke looks like a legit prospect.
Maybe it's one of those things. Perhaps Yoshida is indeed the best pure hitter out of Japan since Ichiro. Maybe he will be challenging Arraez for batting championships.
I cautiously optimistically think the Sox and Bloom might have gotten this right despite the snickers.
I was shocked at the 18 million per year. It might well be an overpay but if he resolves that leadoff problem they've had since Mookie was dealt, there's a lot of value in that.
If he is a .300 hitter with some pop and a strong OBP then I have no problem with the Sox overpaying in free agency to get him. Sometimes you have to overpay in free agency to get your guy if you're convicted in him.
Of course yesterday I was thinking what a 1-2 lefty righty punch he and X could be. So much for that.
But as far as Yoshida goes, he was one of the guys I was hoping Bloom would go after....so if he's a bust, I'd be just as wrong as Bloom here. Just hope he can play an acceptable LF.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 8, 2022 21:55:44 GMT -5
If Benny kept playing like he did in 2018 I’m sure the Sox would’ve been very willing to keep him
He didn’t. He fell apart, saw his k rate soar, and reinvented himself as a 5 hr spray hitter
I do not think Yoshida will be a 5 HR spray hitter. More likely that he’s 2018 Benintendi imo.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Dec 8, 2022 21:56:39 GMT -5
Again,...love the hit tool. They need offense, and this guy can bring it in spades. However, this contract could look bad if the team has no one to drive him in...which it doesn't look like is much of a big deal these days. I see everyone is assuming that he is going to bat leadoff. In that context, I find it interesting that his RBI totals significantly exceed his run totals in Japan, which suggests he was used in a lineup position other than leadoff. With the departure of Xander, IF he pans out I wouldn't be surprised to see Yoshida in the #2 or #3 spot in the order, rather than leadoff. Which begs the question of, who bats leadoff if not him?
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 8, 2022 22:02:33 GMT -5
I'm not hung up on Beni being a good signing because we don't know what his final number will be. (FG crowdsourcing predicts 4 years/$56M.) But he did put up a .772 OPS last year and that would likely have been higher in Fenway. Based on what we're reading, Yoshida is a shaky fielder and we gave him 5 years/$90M.
How much does Yoshida have to outhit Beni by to make up for Beni's defensive edge and lower price tag and is it likely he'll do it? I'm highly skeptical and also think he presents more risk of another bad contract because he's never played in The Show. (The FG crowdsourcing estimate could very well be low but Beni's not getting 5 years/$90M.)
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 8, 2022 22:03:53 GMT -5
Yoshida Verdugo Story Devers Is a very solid 1-4. If we cant get a 5 go get JD for 1 year Casas Arroyo McGire/Wong Kiké
This lineup isnât horrible. Itâs not amazing but i would still watch every single game and expect us to put up some runs. I think we should bring back JD for a 1 year deal or Pham if heâs down. Then use the rest of the money and sign 2 of Senga/Eovaldi/Bassitt. Main problem is we really have no studs in AAA knocking on the door. Next year at the time i expect a few but our top prospects are all very far right now.
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Post by manfred on Dec 8, 2022 22:07:29 GMT -5
Yoshida Verdugo Story Devers Is a very solid 1-4. If we cant get a 5 go get JD for 1 year Casas Arroyo McGire/Wong Kiké This lineup isnât horrible. Itâs not amazing but i would still watch every single game and expect us to put up some runs. I think we should bring back JD for a 1 year deal or Pham if heâs down. Then use the rest of the money and sign 2 of Senga/Eovaldi/Bassitt. Main problem is we really have no studs in AAA knocking on the door. Next year at the time i expect a few but our top prospects are all very far right now. I don’t think you sign two of those starters without going over. If you are implying that, ok. But this plan puts them well over.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 8, 2022 22:15:00 GMT -5
Yoshida Verdugo Story Devers Is a very solid 1-4. If we cant get a 5 go get JD for 1 year Casas Arroyo McGire/Wong Kiké This lineup isnât horrible. Itâs not amazing but i would still watch every single game and expect us to put up some runs. I think we should bring back JD for a 1 year deal or Pham if heâs down. Then use the rest of the money and sign 2 of Senga/Eovaldi/Bassitt. Main problem is we really have no studs in AAA knocking on the door. Next year at the time i expect a few but our top prospects are all very far right now. This is a worse version of a lineup that finished 9th in runs and hasn't fixed its pitching. This team looks farther away from contending then when it started the offseason. Hopefully we added at least added a nice set of tires to a car without an engine.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 8, 2022 22:39:03 GMT -5
Yoshida was a serious monster last year. .335/.447/.561 in a league that hit .240/.309/.358, while playing in the worst hitters park in the league. 4th best OPS in the league was 836. The year before he was the best hitter too and had 26 strikeouts in 455 PA. As a general rule guys that put the ball in play all the time fare much better than TTO types when facing tougher competition.
The talking heads bashing the signing calling him a bench bat are showing their ass.
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Post by bigpapiortiz on Dec 8, 2022 22:41:35 GMT -5
Yoshida was a serious monster last year. .335/.447/.561 in a league that hit .240/.309/.358, while playing in the worst hitters park in the league. 4th best OPS in the league was 836. The year before he was the best hitter too and had 26 strikeouts in 455 PA. As a general rule guys that put the ball in play all the time fare much better than TTO types when facing tougher competition. The talking heads bashing the signing calling him a bench bat are showing their ass. As soon as I heard Jim Bowden bashing the signing and the Red Sox, I was sold it was a good signing.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 9, 2022 0:01:35 GMT -5
I'm not hung up on Beni being a good signing because we don't know what his final number will be. (FG crowdsourcing predicts 4 years/$56M.) But he did put up a .772 OPS last year and that would likely have been higher in Fenway. Based on what we're reading, Yoshida is a shaky fielder and we gave him 5 years/$90M. How much does Yoshida have to outhit Beni by to make up for Beni's defensive edge and lower price tag and is it likely he'll do it? I'm highly skeptical and also think he presents more risk of another bad contract because he's never played in The Show. (The FG crowdsourcing estimate could very well be low but Beni's not getting 5 years/$90M.) I feel like Benintendi's offense has been overestimated a little in this comparison. Yes he had a .373 OBP last season, but that was a) higher than his career .351 mark; b) in the AL Central; c) partially a result of good BABIP luck. Steamer projects a .338 OBP for him next season and a 113 wRC+.
I don't particularly have an opinion on Yoshida, but it's obvious the Red Sox value him more highly than Benintendi, and it's also not hard to see why they might.
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Post by manfred on Dec 9, 2022 0:13:43 GMT -5
I'm not hung up on Beni being a good signing because we don't know what his final number will be. (FG crowdsourcing predicts 4 years/$56M.) But he did put up a .772 OPS last year and that would likely have been higher in Fenway. Based on what we're reading, Yoshida is a shaky fielder and we gave him 5 years/$90M. How much does Yoshida have to outhit Beni by to make up for Beni's defensive edge and lower price tag and is it likely he'll do it? I'm highly skeptical and also think he presents more risk of another bad contract because he's never played in The Show. (The FG crowdsourcing estimate could very well be low but Beni's not getting 5 years/$90M.) I feel like Benintendi's offense has been overestimated a little in this comparison. Yes he had a .373 OBP last season, but that was a) higher than his career .351 mark; b) in the AL Central; c) partially a result of good BABIP luck. Steamer projects a .338 OBP for him next season and a 113 wRC+.
I don't particularly have an opinion on Yoshida, but it's obvious the Red Sox value him more highly than Benintendi, and it's also not hard to see why they might.
I dispute none of this. But… it wouldn’t surprise me if Beni is about half the price.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 9, 2022 0:20:07 GMT -5
I feel like Benintendi's offense has been overestimated a little in this comparison. Yes he had a .373 OBP last season, but that was a) higher than his career .351 mark; b) in the AL Central; c) partially a result of good BABIP luck. Steamer projects a .338 OBP for him next season and a 113 wRC+.
I don't particularly have an opinion on Yoshida, but it's obvious the Red Sox value him more highly than Benintendi, and it's also not hard to see why they might.
I dispute none of this. But… it wouldn’t surprise me if Beni is about half the price. Hitting 5 dingers will do that to a contract Never thought I’d see him have 35 grade power. I miss 2018 Benny 😭😭😭
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Post by manfred on Dec 9, 2022 0:21:41 GMT -5
I dispute none of this. But… it wouldn’t surprise me if Beni is about half the price. Hitting 5 dingers will do that to a contract Never thought I’d see him have 35 grade power. I miss 2018 Benny 😭😭😭 Well, let’s hope the new guy does what he’s getting $100 mill for.
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