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Evaluating the Front Office and Ownership
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 30, 2022 12:23:45 GMT -5
John Henry owned the Marlins for years lol. If MLB owners have an issue with Cohen it shows how messed up they are and how broken the system is. Thats my point. Im pretty sure marlin fans would take Henry over the last two owners. He never had a winning record as owner in a single season with Marlins. Unless the Marlins get a Cohen they are in trouble. They built a brand new beautiful stadium and still have to basically give away tickets to get a few fans. Without shared TV revenue the difference in the Marlins and Red Sox isn't ownership. BTW I don't have a huge issue with our ownership, just to make that clear. Their biggest issues are hiring Cherington and Bloom. Yet at the same time our payroll to revenue ratio keeps going down. They did a lot more in the early years and could do more. So people complaining is also legit.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 30, 2022 13:04:42 GMT -5
Just me or thinking the team has more talent than in ‘21, assuming they get one more average ish player for middle infield, is not really crazy at all?
Obviously they overachieved that year so it’s no guarantee of anything but yeah.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 30, 2022 14:06:03 GMT -5
There also having these kids play multiple positions so there no pigeon holed too many SS. This is one thing I love about what there doing. Flexibility . I can’t wait to see more growth from these kids.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,446
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Post by ianrs on Dec 30, 2022 16:53:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to feel about Bloom. At times it seems like he has no idea what he is doing and has proven incompetence and head-scratching roster and trade decisions since his start here.
That said, so far his drafting and development has been quite good. Seems like he is trying to "bridge" the two generations of Red Sox, and you could argue with the 2021 ALCS appearance that he bought himself some time.
Lets see what happens this season.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 3, 2023 8:39:37 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2023 8:18:51 GMT -5
Steve Perrault said on Inside the Monster a source texted him “11/331 - it’s a done deal” Tuesday (the day after the Winter Classic.) In hindsight seems like John Henry was in town more than just a hockey game… Does this mean they’re not selling the team anymore. I was going to start saving up pennies until I got to $5 billion
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 5, 2023 9:24:11 GMT -5
I just feel like this was a validation that Bloom is pretty much calling the shots and now rests the made up narrative that this ownership group doesn’t spend money.
Somewhat an indictment on Bloom, he’s probably even more in the hot seat now if things go ugly this season
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 5, 2023 9:40:21 GMT -5
Jan 5, 2023 1:20:05 GMT -6 JimmyM said:
"Devers, Whitlock, Bello, Casas, Mayer is a legit core from 2025-2028, plus whatever other talent they can develop or trade for from their reloaded farm. I think this off-season Bloom was very intentional in not adding contracts that could potentially be bad money during that window, Xander included. Anyone starting to see the vision now?"
I'm taking this post from the extension thread so I don't hijack it. I actually still like Bloom, and I've defended him many times, but I have to say - this seems like a pretty blatant moving of the goalposts. The entire narrative was that he was brought in to balance the books and get them to a sustainable level to where they'd be contenders by no later than this upcoming season, once he finally got free of most of the handcuffs DD laid on him. There's no way that you can logically make the case for a GM being brought in with the intent of a turnaround (if you can even call it that) of one of the biggest market teams in the sport having a timeline of 5 years. That's ridiculous.
Now, don't hear what I'm not saying. That IS a very good core, and if everything goes normally they should be very good in that window. But there's just no way that everything has happened up to this point can be written off as being a part of the "vision" you're hypothesizing.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jan 5, 2023 18:28:05 GMT -5
Jan 5, 2023 1:20:05 GMT -6 JimmyM said: "Devers, Whitlock, Bello, Casas, Mayer is a legit core from 2025-2028, plus whatever other talent they can develop or trade for from their reloaded farm. I think this off-season Bloom was very intentional in not adding contracts that could potentially be bad money during that window, Xander included. Anyone starting to see the vision now?" I'm taking this post from the extension thread so I don't hijack it. I actually still like Bloom, and I've defended him many times, but I have to say - this seems like a pretty blatant moving of the goalposts. The entire narrative was that he was brought in to balance the books and get them to a sustainable level to where they'd be contenders by no later than this upcoming season, once he finally got free of most of the handcuffs DD laid on him. There's no way that you can logically make the case for a GM being brought in with the intent of a turnaround (if you can even call it that) of one of the biggest market teams in the sport having a timeline of 5 years. That's ridiculous. Now, don't hear what I'm not saying. That IS a very good core, and if everything goes normally they should be very good in that window. But there's just no way that everything has happened up to this point can be written off as being a part of the "vision" you're hypothesizing. Last year, the Red Sox got just 5 WAR (fWAR or bWAR) from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; everyone else in the AL East got at least 15 WAR during the same period. Fangraphs projects that the Red Sox will get 6 WAR next year from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; it projects that Toronto, Tampa and Baltimore will get at least 18 WAR from players acquired during the same period. This is the heart of the Red Sox’ problems. Personally, I think this is more about what Tampa, Toronto and Baltimore did well than what Boston did badly. In any other division, the Red Sox would have been a contender, at least for a wild card. It’s not Chaim Bloom or Dave Dombrowski’s fault that three of the Red Sox’ four AL East rivals did such excellent jobs building their future cores.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 6, 2023 0:54:47 GMT -5
Jan 5, 2023 1:20:05 GMT -6 JimmyM said: "Devers, Whitlock, Bello, Casas, Mayer is a legit core from 2025-2028, plus whatever other talent they can develop or trade for from their reloaded farm. I think this off-season Bloom was very intentional in not adding contracts that could potentially be bad money during that window, Xander included. Anyone starting to see the vision now?" I'm taking this post from the extension thread so I don't hijack it. I actually still like Bloom, and I've defended him many times, but I have to say - this seems like a pretty blatant moving of the goalposts. The entire narrative was that he was brought in to balance the books and get them to a sustainable level to where they'd be contenders by no later than this upcoming season, once he finally got free of most of the handcuffs DD laid on him. There's no way that you can logically make the case for a GM being brought in with the intent of a turnaround (if you can even call it that) of one of the biggest market teams in the sport having a timeline of 5 years. That's ridiculous. Now, don't hear what I'm not saying. That IS a very good core, and if everything goes normally they should be very good in that window. But there's just no way that everything has happened up to this point can be written off as being a part of the "vision" you're hypothesizing. Last year, the Red Sox got just 5 WAR (fWAR or bWAR) from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; everyone else in the AL East got at least 15 WAR during the same period. Fangraphs projects that the Red Sox will get 6 WAR next year from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; it projects that Toronto, Tampa and Baltimore will get at least 18 WAR from players acquired during the same period. This is the heart of the Red Sox’ problems. Personally, I think this is more about what Tampa, Toronto and Baltimore did well than what Boston did badly. In any other division, the Red Sox would have been a contender, at least for a wild card. It’s not Chaim Bloom or Dave Dombrowski’s fault that three of the Red Sox’ four AL East rivals did such excellent jobs building their future cores. Here is why this logic doesn’t make sense to me or you at least have to see the other side. The Redsox between 2019 and 2021 let go of over at least 2022 18 WAR fangraphs. That’s just Betts, Renfroe, Perez, Benny, and schwarber so you should also be accusing Bloom letting a boatload of WAR go in the span of 2 years
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Post by notstarboard on Jan 6, 2023 1:44:42 GMT -5
Last year, the Red Sox got just 5 WAR (fWAR or bWAR) from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; everyone else in the AL East got at least 15 WAR during the same period. Fangraphs projects that the Red Sox will get 6 WAR next year from players acquired between 2016 and 2019; it projects that Toronto, Tampa and Baltimore will get at least 18 WAR from players acquired during the same period. This is the heart of the Red Sox’ problems. Personally, I think this is more about what Tampa, Toronto and Baltimore did well than what Boston did badly. In any other division, the Red Sox would have been a contender, at least for a wild card. It’s not Chaim Bloom or Dave Dombrowski’s fault that three of the Red Sox’ four AL East rivals did such excellent jobs building their future cores. Here is why this logic doesn’t make sense to me or you at least have to see the other side. The Redsox between 2019 and 2021 let go of over at least 2022 18 WAR fangraphs. That’s just Betts, Renfroe, Perez, Benny, and schwarber so you should also be accusing Bloom letting a boatload of WAR go in the span of 2 years Right, we should just sign the best players and then we'd have the best team. Why doesn't Bloom understand?
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Post by bosox904 on Jan 6, 2023 10:12:05 GMT -5
I just feel like this was a validation that Bloom is pretty much calling the shots and now rests the made up narrative that this ownership group doesn’t spend money. Somewhat an indictment on Bloom, he’s probably even more in the hot seat now if things go ugly this season So Bloom, not John Henry, decided to up their offer by around $100m because John Henry got booed?
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 6, 2023 10:21:32 GMT -5
I just feel like this was a validation that Bloom is pretty much calling the shots and now rests the made up narrative that this ownership group doesn’t spend money. Somewhat an indictment on Bloom, he’s probably even more in the hot seat now if things go ugly this season So Bloom, not John Henry, decided to up their offer by around $100m because John Henry got booed? Uhh no? I don’t think anyone did anything based off fans booing
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 6, 2023 10:23:44 GMT -5
I just feel like this was a validation that Bloom is pretty much calling the shots and now rests the made up narrative that this ownership group doesn’t spend money. Somewhat an indictment on Bloom, he’s probably even more in the hot seat now if things go ugly this season So Bloom, not John Henry, decided to up their offer by around $100m because John Henry got booed? Do you actually believe they increased their offer by that much in a day? I'm sure the public sentiment had a marginal effect on the ownership wanting to get this deal done sooner rather than later but there is no logic or common sense that would indicate that the sides weren't already pretty close when that incident happened. What a ridiculous claim.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 6, 2023 10:24:25 GMT -5
Here is why this logic doesn’t make sense to me or you at least have to see the other side. The Redsox between 2019 and 2021 let go of over at least 2022 18 WAR fangraphs. That’s just Betts, Renfroe, Perez, Benny, and schwarber so you should also be accusing Bloom letting a boatload of WAR go in the span of 2 years Right, we should just sign the best players and then we'd have the best team. Why doesn't Bloom understand? Got it I’m supposed to ignore the awful allocation of assets by Bloom but then only acknowledge them under the previous regime within the farm
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 6, 2023 10:38:11 GMT -5
Right, we should just sign the best players and then we'd have the best team. Why doesn't Bloom understand? Got it I’m supposed to ignore the awful allocation of assets by Bloom but then only acknowledge them under the previous regime within the farm Using Martin Perez as an example of awful allocation of assets by Bloom is one hell of a revisionist history (as is Mookie, but not going to be the guy who relitigates the trade for the umpteenth time)
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 6, 2023 11:21:00 GMT -5
Got it I’m supposed to ignore the awful allocation of assets by Bloom but then only acknowledge them under the previous regime within the farm Using Martin Perez as an example of awful allocation of assets by Bloom is one hell of a revisionist history (as is Mookie, but not going to be the guy who relitigates the trade for the umpteenth time) I agree, but it’s the same blanket statement as saying the farm didn’t produce anything in a specific span of time with no context.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 6, 2023 11:27:17 GMT -5
Here is why this logic doesn’t make sense to me or you at least have to see the other side. The Redsox between 2019 and 2021 let go of over at least 2022 18 WAR fangraphs. That’s just Betts, Renfroe, Perez, Benny, and schwarber so you should also be accusing Bloom letting a boatload of WAR go in the span of 2 years Right, we should just sign the best players and then we'd have the best team. Why doesn't Bloom understand? All hail the best GM in the division, Chaim Bloom!
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 6, 2023 11:29:07 GMT -5
Right, we should just sign the best players and then we'd have the best team. Why doesn't Bloom understand? All hail the best GM in the division, Chaim Bloom! All hail tired strawman arguments!
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 6, 2023 12:02:51 GMT -5
All hail the best GM in the division, Chaim Bloom! All hail tired strawman arguments! Correct! I'm sure that Bloom is working on a tremendous deal to fill the SS and RF gaps for this team. Super Bloom Baby!
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 6, 2023 12:07:07 GMT -5
This thread is a tire fire
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 6, 2023 12:11:00 GMT -5
This thread is a tire fire It served its purposes of somewhat cleaning up the rest of the threads for a bit
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 6, 2023 12:29:06 GMT -5
The troll and sarcastic comments stop now. If you want to have any actual discussion of the front office/ownership, then please do. But this is a FINAL warning that trolling will not be tolerated and you will be banned. Thanks.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 7, 2023 9:51:49 GMT -5
The irony is this thread came to halt as the FO made its biggest signing ever.
Again for me this shows two things. Ownership still has the same mandate as always which is the FO can do whatever it wants up until the luxury tax. Anything beyond that they need to be sold on.
This perhaps could have been a wake up call for Bloom or you hope at least. To me it is clear he was in over his head the last 3 seasons.
His issue wasn’t specifically the Tampa approach, his issue is he wasn’t scaling it up to a top 5 market budget
Now with Devers locked in you can hope and anticipate a 3/4/5 combo of
Devers Mayer Casas
Bloom is 50/50 to survive and ugly season past August, but if that occurs I think ownership could give him one last offseason
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Post by fisk75 on Jan 9, 2023 7:17:54 GMT -5
Over the weekend MLB reinstated former Braves GM John Coppolella. Obviously what he did was wrong, thus the lifetime ban which lasted 5 years. He was the GM that drafted, traded for or signed Albies, Acuna, Fried, Riley and Swanson.
Would any team bring him in? Should the Bloom consider this in an advisory role?
My answer is yes the Red Sox should. Not justifying it but the "rules" in the International market had always been flimsy, and I think he deserves a 2nd chance, plus he is pretty good at evaluating talent.
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