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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 27, 2023 12:34:43 GMT -5
I like Joey Porters tape, yet I've just watched a little here and there. Guy gave up like 60 yards all year playing man cover. Has crazy long arms and is a good tackler. My worry with him, like the top 3 CB is they all had huge breakout years by QBR. I really want to see two years of dominant play for a top 14 pick. He's also only logged big snap totals in one of 4 years. He doesn't get interceptions either and he needs work on being too physical. Yet you can likely say that about almost every great Man cover CB, being physical is what sets them apart. All 3 of the top cb got there hands on over 10 balls last year. Gonzalez being 20, with Witherspoon and Porter being 22 stands out.
What took Porter and Witherspoon so long to figure things out that they had to stay 4 years? Heck more importantly, do they fit our defense as high IQ guys and are they a culture fit.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 27, 2023 15:26:59 GMT -5
According to Bob Kraft (and Meek Mill), Lamar Jackson want's to be a Patriot. Bob says "it was Bill's decision".
Not sure if that means it's over and Bill's decision is to stick with Mac (and Zappe, per Belichek's own comments today) or that is it STILL up to Bill (and, of course, Baltimore).
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 27, 2023 15:43:23 GMT -5
This makes it sound more future tense than past tense fwiw.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 27, 2023 15:49:05 GMT -5
I'm passing on Jackson. I think he's a terrific player and one of the best QBs in the league overall, but I just don't trust his health. He's a bit more brittle than absolute tanks like Hurts or Allen who can endure the abuse and Jackson invites too much contact.
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Post by jmei on Mar 27, 2023 16:15:17 GMT -5
I’m a big Lamar fan. I think he’s a top 5 NFL QB who was underutilized in Baltimore. Off the top of my head, I’d trade Mac Jones for Lamar (and Lamar’s expected $200M+ guaranteed contract) straight up. Maybe throw in another midround pick or two. No idea if that’s enough, though.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 27, 2023 17:33:48 GMT -5
Trying to figure out why Bob would drop this and all I can come up with is:
1. Just an old dude speaking nonsense
2. Loves dropping Meek Mills name
3. Would rather Jets get Lamar than Rodgers so he's trying to get them to make a move.
4. Establishing evidence in case this year doesn't work out and he wants to fire BB ("Hey, I signed off on Lamar but Bill chose not to. It's on him).
4 is too Sports Talk Radio for me (and I despise myself a bit for even posting it). Doubt 3 is their line of thinking so it's probably some combo of 1 and/or 2.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 27, 2023 17:54:05 GMT -5
Everything is Bills decision, we know of one time Kraft stepped him with trading Jimmy because Tom Brady went directly to him. He's not saying I want him, yet Bill has final say.
If Jackson really wants to play here, first thing back off your demand of like 5 years fully guaranteed that tops Watson deal. That's a non starter for any half way decent GM.
I'm not a huge Lamar Jackson guy, I value passing #1. Look at his playoff passing numbers. Yet if you could really trade him straight up for Mac Jones, I'd entertain the thought.
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Post by philarhody on Mar 27, 2023 18:08:26 GMT -5
I really like a Lamar led offense on a rookie contract. I really hate a Lamar led offense on a guaranteed, $45 million + per year deal. I think the Hurts deal will ultimately bury Philadelphia, but I think it’s smart that Chicago is going to continue to build the offense around Fields.
With that said, If I was Atlanta, I’d be on the phone with Anthony Richardson’s agent asking things like “if we draft your client top 10, could he give us 200 carries a year?”
The running quarterback is a cheat code with a stacked roster. But if the defense can’t stop the passing quarterbacks(Mahomes, Burrow), good luck.
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Post by philarhody on Mar 27, 2023 18:19:20 GMT -5
I’m a big Lamar fan. I think he’s a top 5 NFL QB who was underutilized in Baltimore. Off the top of my head, I’d trade Mac Jones for Lamar (and Lamar’s expected $200M+ guaranteed contract) straight up. Maybe throw in another midround pick or two. No idea if that’s enough, though. Why do you think he was underutilized in Baltimore? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 27, 2023 20:36:13 GMT -5
Mac + 14 for Lamar = no
Mac + 2nd for Lamar = yes
Mac + next years 1st for Lamar = yes
That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 27, 2023 20:40:00 GMT -5
Main thing I don’t want is to build around Mac. Thats a recipe to end up like the Minnesota Vikings, or maybe not even that.
Either go full tear down or go get Lamar.
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Post by jmei on Mar 27, 2023 21:05:56 GMT -5
I’m a big Lamar fan. I think he’s a top 5 NFL QB who was underutilized in Baltimore. Off the top of my head, I’d trade Mac Jones for Lamar (and Lamar’s expected $200M+ guaranteed contract) straight up. Maybe throw in another midround pick or two. No idea if that’s enough, though. Why do you think he was underutilized in Baltimore? They’ve had one of the worst wide receiver rooms in the league in recent years and Greg Roman’s offense has been heavily tilted towards the run game and away from what good modern passing offenses need to do (route combinations, coverage beaters). I’m very curious what he looks like in another offensive system. |
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Post by philarhody on Mar 27, 2023 22:24:52 GMT -5
Why do you think he was underutilized in Baltimore? They’ve had one of the worst wide receiver rooms in the league in recent years and Greg Roman’s offense has been heavily tilted towards the run game and away from what good modern passing offenses need to do (route combinations, coverage beaters). I’m very curious what he looks like in another offensive system. It seems like the Ravens have really missed on the receivers. It’s hard to believe that a modern passing offense is best practice for utilizing Lamar Jackson. But who knows, maybe you’re right. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 29, 2023 13:33:17 GMT -5
patriotswire.usatoday.com/lists/patriots-7-round-2023-mock-draft-6-0/That's a darn good mock draft. Yeah I'd be disappointed you didn't address size at CB in a draft where it's unreal. Yet Clark is a player and shows you the crazy depth at CB in the 6th round. Not the biggest To'oto'o fan, certainly not who I'd go after if Bill finally changes his way. Yet can certainly see Bill liking him. I don't get the love so many Boston sports writers have for Diabate.
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Post by philarhody on Mar 30, 2023 18:39:13 GMT -5
I don’t understand why Asante Samuel has so much hate for Belichick. He made him and so many other players multimillionaires.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2023 21:57:14 GMT -5
Just when I think I have the WR group down and just about ready to watch tape, Ronnie Bell posts a 6.62 3 cone time at his pro day. Athletically he's basically an Edelman clone, it's actually creepy how similar they are down to the 14 each on the bench press.
One of these days they'll draft a slot WR in the mold and Welker/Edelman. Given his low draft ranking, comes from a major program Bill likes.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 31, 2023 8:29:14 GMT -5
I hate the idea of one of these CBs in Round One. Seems like there should be some great options heading into the 2nd and 3rd if not lower. I hate all the mocks sending us Devin Witherspoon or Porter Jr.
But based on most mocks, the OTs likely won't fall in our favor. The Top 3 seem to being going ahead of us, and next set are more likely RTs. I think we end up Broderick Jones/Parris Johnson or else trading down into the 20s. Unless they really like JSN. Only common mock I hate more than those CBs is Quentin Johnston, who looks like N'Keal Harry to me (big but doesn't win contested catches AT ALL, and I generally hate B12 receivers in the NFL).
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 31, 2023 8:47:44 GMT -5
I personally love the idea of Witherspoon at 14. Idk if he will still be around though. That boy is a physical, versatile, and extremely talented player
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Post by philarhody on Mar 31, 2023 11:16:53 GMT -5
I hate the idea of one of these CBs in Round One. Seems like there should be some great options heading into the 2nd and 3rd if not lower. I hate all the mocks sending us Devin Witherspoon or Porter Jr. But based on most mocks, the OTs likely won't fall in our favor. The Top 3 seem to being going ahead of us, and next set are more likely RTs. I think we end up Broderick Jones/Parris Johnson or else trading down into the 20s. Unless they really like JSN. Only common mock I hate more than those CBs is Quentin Johnston, who looks like N'Keal Harry to me (big but doesn't win contested catches AT ALL, and I generally hate B12 receivers in the NFL). Witherspoon was absolutely filthy this year. I don’t see a lot on tape from Porter that makes me think he’s a real dude. Quentin Johnston is very comparable to N’keal. Actually, N’keal was far better at contested catches in college (53%). Johnston has zero dog at the catch point (38%). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 31, 2023 12:07:39 GMT -5
While not the running developmental QB I was looking to add, Clayton Tune is a crazy athlete. He's basically the same size as Mac Jones, yet twice the athlete he is. While still being in the same mold of Jones and Zappe as a guy who fits our offense. Unreal production, he's just now starting to use his athletic traits. Over 500 yards rushing and 5 TDs last year. More like Zappe as he moves around to find throwing opportunities, then throwing on the move so far. Example Clayton Tune might be a better athlete than Meyers was. I just had to pass that along, because no one has even mentioned he was the 2nd best QB to test at combine behind Richardson. His comp is Kirk Cousins, yet he's a waaay better athlete, it's not even close.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 1, 2023 10:05:15 GMT -5
My order of likelihood based on early mocks and BBs draft history:
1. Bill will "overdraft" an OL or Front 7 guy at 14
2. He will trade down and get someone in the next tier of those positions (probably the most desired outcome)
3. Bill will move up to get someone in the top tier at those positions
4. Bill will take a CB or WR in the 1st.
Of course, the idea of overdraft is based on the idea that his board does (or should) match the online boards. Hence, #1 being the most likely.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 1, 2023 13:29:23 GMT -5
I watched some more tape on Joey Porter Jr., focusing in on Ohio State and Purdue games, going up against 3 very good WRs and two good QBs. First thing that stands out is Penn State mixes up its D all the time. Porter is playing in Zone a ton and he looks very good doing it. 2nd he's not always redirecting WR in press man. I don't know if that's him or the coaches. Clean release both Harrison and Jones get 10 yard slant plays. When he gets physical it's very different, he breaks up a similar pass to Harrison. He was able to run with Jones and bat the ball away down the field. Jones has 4.43 speed. Ohio State is moving Harrison around to get Porter off him. That's a top 5 QB and maybe the top WR in next years draft.
I'm not a fan of taking CBs in the first, yet if you are going to do it, I see Joey Porter as a fit. I just feel this draft has a ton of good fits at CB all over the draft. He gave up like 63 yards in press man coverage all year and about 20 yards was on the tape I watched because he gave them a clean release to two elite college WR with speed, yet they couldn't do that when he got physical. The one thing I will point out watching that tape is Penn States D had many weaknesses among DB that teams picked on. A better group and maybe we see more tape of QBs going right at him. I'm seeing him matched up with that other good WR at Ohio State and you see Harrison on the other side making huge plays.
Yet I see a guy who's great in press man, can play physical with great speedy WR and run with them making plays down field. He also looks to have a very high football IQ playing zone very well and we know Bill loves to throw some of that in to mess with QBs.
I'm certainly not going to pound the table and say take him, yet he looks darn good. Yet so do the roughly 50% of CBs who bust in the first round.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 2, 2023 7:44:15 GMT -5
I don’t understand why Asante Samuel has so much hate for Belichick. He made him and so many other players multimillionaires. It’s bc Bill made him play on the franchise tag in 2007. Then once Asante cost the team a perfect season and SB win, Bill didn’t pay him number 1 corner money so he’s bitter, even tho Bill was right, he wasn’t a shutdown corner |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 2, 2023 8:55:54 GMT -5
Asante the gambling zone corner still being mad 15 years later. I’d care more about his opinion if he caught that ball.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 2, 2023 14:21:04 GMT -5
Asante the gambling zone corner still being mad 15 years later. I’d care more about his opinion if he caught that ball. Right, his greatest attribute came up missing in the biggest moment. |
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