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Patriots 2023 Offseason Thread
cdj
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Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Apr 6, 2023 10:04:16 GMT -5
Zay Flowers coming in for a visit
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Post by texs31 on Apr 6, 2023 10:14:00 GMT -5
Nolan Smith as well.
EDIT - He's joining teammate Broderick Jones on the visit.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2023 14:17:03 GMT -5
Going to start out by WR rankings in reverse, going more low to high. Start out today with two of my best value WR. Have to say with these guys game tape is rather limited. The higher guys are broken down by so called experts a lot more, so you get more detailed game tape.
Jalen Moreno-Chropper WR Frenso State-
He's tiny by current NFL standards, yet half this class is. His size 5'11" 172 is his biggest issue. Very good production and a good fast, not great athlete. Big time production for two straight years and is young for this class at 21. Very good route runner, who already is advanced in setting guys up and vary route speeds. Runs a large route tree, doing a little but of everything. Gadget guy with runs and even pass attempts, returner. Makes things look easy. Played with a good QB and they were completely in sync. He gets open, catches almost everything and can make big plays. Yac ability is speed with a little juke. Catch radius is good for a WR his size, example he's not Wes Welker, yet he's not a contested catch guy either. One thing that bugged me was him not fighting for extra yards on some out of bounds plays. Smaller school and against USC their D line just destroyed the OL, not giving you the tape you really wanted to see of downfield routes. I see a slot/z receiver, with maybe a little X. 3rd to 5th round guy. Impressed at Shrine Bowl, which the Patriots were part of, yet was on the other team.
Highly impressed and I can't wait to compare him to Jordan Addison. They are basically the same exact size, with Cropper being the faster player.
Ronnie Bell Michigan-
First thing that standouts is he's much more bulked up, 6' 191. As I've mentioned before he's like an Edelman clone. Lost season in 2021 with ACL tear. Run first offense with bad QBs. They used him more as a vertical big play threat and he can go up and get the ball. Has yac ability, more juke than cropper and more power, less speed. Both made multiple sideline graps. Bell made a one handed, not using body catch show very good hand strength. Also a returner. While used a little like we use slot WR, it wasn't a big part of that offense. He has good production, yet likely would have put up better numbers in an offense that was better at passing. Prototypical patriots slot WR, who can play some Z and even X in certain formations. Did some gadget plays. Looked more like Edelman with Cam Newton, using deep plays on a run first offense. So he might need some time to learn the slot. 4th to 5th round guy.
More to follow, yet I seem to forget how much work this is. Off to a great start though, two of my best value Patriot fits didn't disappoint. So far it supports my theory that the best value at WR is 2nd-4th/5th rounds.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 6, 2023 14:18:27 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Apr 6, 2023 14:52:48 GMT -5
Interesting report today that WR Josh Downs doesn't have a single Top 30 visit lined up. This is an indication of 2 things:
1. What the visits are usually about
2. That Downs is a very "clean" prospect (medically, off the field, etc).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 7, 2023 10:39:34 GMT -5
Charlie Jones Prudue-
Another undersized 5'11 175 guy with 4.43 speed. Only one year of production, yet it's massive. Can do a little bit of everything from playing outside to inside, slants to deep routes. Very good yac player, years of being a good returner. Against Joey Porter was able to do a nice quick slant picking up ten yards and a first, also had a deep ball easily batted away. Has very good hands and is much better than you'd think at contested catches. Played on 3 teams, is one of the older guys at going to be 25. Played with a very good QB, who played out of the shotgun and had a lot of time to throw. I see a bunch of stuff you love, like he can get open and make big plays. Yet a ton of him playing X and making contested catches. It's impressive at his size, yet he's unlikely to do that in NFL. There's some Skyy Moore crap all over his tape, where he sets up contested catches all the time rather than just getting open. Compared to a guy like Cropper who is just always working to get open and setting up the CB. A vertical slot, who might be able to do more, 3rd to 5th round.
Xavier Hutchinson Iowa State-
He's 6'2" 203 with massive production for two straight years. 4.53 40, 36" vertical and 6.91 3 cone time. Played 70% × and 30% slot. He's surprising given so many reports say he's likely a slot possession receiver. I was expecting a Meyer type guy and you get that, yet you also get more. He shows more speed and YAC than Meyers, using power and speed. Frankly he's more like Meyers and Parker combined. He has a good chance to be able to play the X because he's a very good route runner, very good at contested catches with a big catch radius and makes hard catches. I don't see as much high pointing as Parker does, it's more creating space to make the catch than just trying to out jump the CB. Which I like and he's very good at it. I've had him circled for months given Meyers was always likely leaving and I like him a lot more now. Now while I was impressed at his tape given scouting reports, he doesn't have that elite speed or 2nd gear for an X guy. While he shows power breaking tackles and doing straight arms, he's not close to elite at it. He's likely one of the safer WR prospects in the draft, yet lacks the elite tools needed to be elite. He should certainly be a target, yet might get drafted higher than the Patriots would take him given the lack of size in this draft. Power slot or X receiver, late 2nd to early 4th.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 7, 2023 21:17:21 GMT -5
Charlie Jones Prudue- Another undersized 5'11 175 guy with 4.43 speed. Only one year of production, yet it's massive. Can do a little bit of everything from playing outside to inside, slants to deep routes. Very good yac player, years of being a good returner. Against Joey Porter was able to do a nice quick slant picking up ten yards and a first, also had a deep ball easily batted away. Has very good hands and is much better than you'd think at contested catches. Played on 3 teams, is one of the older guys at going to be 25. Played with a very good QB, who played out of the shotgun and had a lot of time to throw. I see a bunch of stuff you love, like he can get open and make big plays. Yet a ton of him playing X and making contested catches. It's impressive at his size, yet he's unlikely to do that in NFL. There's some Skyy Moore crap all over his tape, where he sets up contested catches all the time rather than just getting open. Compared to a guy like Cropper who is just always working to get open and setting up the CB. A vertical slot, who might be able to do more, 3rd to 5th round. Xavier Hutchinson Iowa State- He's 6'2" 203 with massive production for two straight years. 4.53 40, 36" vertical and 6.91 3 cone time. Played 70% × and 30% slot. He's surprising given so many reports say he's likely a slot possession receiver. I was expecting a Meyer type guy and you get that, yet you also get more. He shows more speed and YAC than Meyers, using power and speed. Frankly he's more like Meyers and Parker combined. He has a good chance to be able to play the X because he's a very good route runner, very good at contested catches with a big catch radius and makes hard catches. I don't see as much high pointing as Parker does, it's more creating space to make the catch than just trying to out jump the CB. Which I like and he's very good at it. I've had him circled for months given Meyers was always likely leaving and I like him a lot more now. Now while I was impressed at his tape given scouting reports, he doesn't have that elite speed or 2nd gear for an X guy. While he shows power breaking tackles and doing straight arms, he's not close to elite at it. He's likely one of the safer WR prospects in the draft, yet lacks the elite tools needed to be elite. He should certainly be a target, yet might get drafted higher than the Patriots would take him given the lack of size in this draft. Power slot or X receiver, late 2nd to early 4th. I like both these guys. I think they will both be solid, not great. I don’t think there are many solid nfl receivers in this draft. |
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Post by philarhody on Apr 7, 2023 21:18:54 GMT -5
I don’t know iwhy Darnell Wright isn’t the number 1 tackle in the draft. His tape this past season is insane. He is a bad man.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 8, 2023 10:36:12 GMT -5
I actually think the WR in the draft strength is solid players. We'll see if I feel that way after watching tape. Right now I'm leaning towards take two WR in the 3rd to 5th rounds rather than target one WR. It's just a very unique class with so many smaller guys, mainly weight wise, yet it has a ton of speed.
Darnell Wright is a very good RT prospect, yet he's a RT. Unless you have a left handed QB, you shouldn't be taking RT in the top 10. Yet you shouldn't be taking RB or OG high either and teams do it.
Look at Mac Jones as a rookie, half the year RT was a mess, it didn't kill you though. Last year with LT a mess it killed you. Not the greatest example as we also had other issues, yet a good OL, especially with a QB like Mac Jones starts at LT.
Yet it's Bill, we have talk about taking a RB. So in that context, sure take a RT first. I have to admit I've spent time thinking about Wright and Onwenu run blocking on the right side.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 8, 2023 12:58:49 GMT -5
Now that PFF has put the full mock draft simulator behind a paywall (except for occasional Fridays) some might enjoy this alternative: www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/The player write-ups are suspect but the trade offers tend towards realistic and the rankings aren't bad. Have fun. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 8, 2023 13:04:28 GMT -5
Btw, I will gladly trade out of #14 to grab 3 picks between 40-70 (takes multiple trade backs). Five very talented players can be had between 45-76.
Witherspoon is the one I tend to stay put for. Love the collisions he causes. Him & Peppers & Duggars blasting fools with The Jones Boys stealing passes? Plus the pass rush? Sign me up.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 8, 2023 14:49:35 GMT -5
When I was thinking that the most likely NE scenarios were either Overdraft or Tradeback scenarios, I largely (no pun intended) had Tennesseee OT Darnell Wright in mind. Now I'm no longer sure it's that much of an overdraft and he may not be available if they were to trade back too far.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2023 7:17:33 GMT -5
Here’s my piss the world off mock draft by trading back twice then taking a RB and TE with the first 2 picks.  |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 9, 2023 11:34:16 GMT -5
Garrett Williams is my best value at CB, first round talent. Tore ACL in late October, so he's likely missing all offseason workouts and mini camps, yet might be ready for training camp, as it's right about 9 months. Seen as third round guy now.
Everyone has their own trade down guys, mine at LT Harrison and TE Mayer.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 9, 2023 11:37:22 GMT -5
Given Wrights rise, Harrison is my trade down LT too.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2023 11:54:40 GMT -5
Garrett Williams is my best value at CB, first round talent. Tore ACL in late October, so he's likely missing all offseason workouts and mini camps, yet might be ready for training camp, as it's right about 9 months. Seen as third round guy now. Everyone has their own trade down guys, mine at LT Harrison and TE Mayer. I like idea of grabbing Vorhees in that 4th rd area. He’s going to miss all year and is a guard, which isn’t something they really need, BUT he’d be a high pick if not for the ACL tear and I’m not convinced Strange isn’t going to be a center replacing Andrews down the road. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 9, 2023 12:00:28 GMT -5
The RB talk has me thinking of a somewhat strange "poll".
What player could BB take in the 1st (either 14th or trade down) that:
1. You could envision him taking
2. Would hate that he pulled him that early but . . .
3. Could see being a very good player for them.
I guess that's a weird way to write a post that says part of me wouldn't be surprised if he trades down and takes Mazi Smith in the 20s.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Apr 9, 2023 18:39:03 GMT -5
The RB talk has me thinking of a somewhat strange "poll". What player could BB take in the 1st (either 14th or trade down) that: 1. You could envision him taking 2. Would hate that he pulled him that early but . . . 3. Could see being a very good player for them. I guess that's a weird way to write a post that says part of me wouldn't be surprised if he trades down and takes Mazi Smith in the 20s. Reiss suggested Darnell Washington at 14. That would do it! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 9, 2023 19:01:45 GMT -5
You'd have to feel really good about Strange at center, because Vorhees is likely only a LG for us. Not complaining though, I like value and taking red shirt guys can be very smart. I've been looking at Patterson Notre Dame, center/LG. Maybe your future center, yet just trying to create good depth.
Yet we should also be looking at bigger mauler RG, because it's not given Onwenu resigns.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 9, 2023 19:18:26 GMT -5
Shocking pick that's highly unlikely? Will Levis QB Kentucky 🤔
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Post by texs31 on Apr 9, 2023 21:17:30 GMT -5
Shocking pick that's highly unlikely? Will Levis QB Kentucky 🤔 Was looking more for a player who has more of a solid 2nd rd projection that Bill could easily see differently. But any of the QBs would be a stunner despite being a potentially good (or better) pick. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 10, 2023 3:50:05 GMT -5
DJ Turner in first over other more highly rated CBs
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 10, 2023 11:04:02 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 10, 2023 12:29:20 GMT -5
Not surprising. I can’t see the Patriots drafting one of these guys in the first round - although it’d be just like them to take one in a weak class |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 10, 2023 12:40:59 GMT -5
For those who like Brugler's work, he released The Beast today.
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