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2023 26-man final roster spots
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 11, 2023 13:35:26 GMT -5
Created this thread to discuss who will get the final roster spots.
As of now there appear to be the following open position player spots: starting SS, backup SS/2B, backup OF.
My guess: trade acquisition (Amed Rosario), free agent (Andrus/Iglesias), Duran (pinch running/CF...)
Until there is a trade/injury (very likely), there appears to be only two pitching spots available for: Paxton/Brasier/Taylor/Mills/Crawford with Wink/Mata/Walter/Murphy/Seabold/German/Ort/Kelly.
My guess is they keep Paxton & Brasier (because Bloom loves his BP depth), place Taylor on the 60 day IL and try to slide Mills through waivers; with everyone weeks starting at AAA. A surprise Barnes or Joely Rodriguez (40%+ of contract in incentives) release could also be in the cards.
I'm not accounting for a couple of these guys being released to make room on the 40 as there's another thread for that.
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Post by notstarboard on Jan 11, 2023 14:15:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we would sign Rodriguez only to release him before he throws a pitch. Especially given that he's the only lefty reliever on the roster (besides possibly Taylor), I think his spot is safe.
My best guess is that we trade from the 40-man pitching depth when acquiring a middle IF, potentially someone in the Seabold or Winckowski bucket. A Dalbec trade wouldn't surprise me either. I could also see an Ort DFA if we need a spot.
I doubt we'd DFA Mills and try to sneak him to Worcester. It's not as if Wallace was the stud of studs, but it seems strange to give up a prospect to acquire a guy who you then immediately expose to waivers. If the 40 man is that tight, why not just stick with Wallace instead of trading for Mills? If Mills is enough of an upgrade over Wallace to justify the risk of losing him, he's probably also getting claimed if we DFA him.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 11, 2023 14:38:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we would sign Rodriguez only to release him before he throws a pitch. Especially given that he's the only lefty reliever on the roster (besides possibly Taylor), I think his spot is safe. My best guess is that we trade from the 40-man pitching depth when acquiring a middle IF, potentially someone in the Seabold or Winckowski bucket. A Dalbec trade wouldn't surprise me either. I could also see an Ort DFA if we need a spot. I doubt we'd DFA Mills and try to sneak him to Worcester. It's not as if Wallace was the stud of studs, but it seems strange to give up a prospect to acquire a guy who you then immediately expose to waivers. If the 40 man is that tight, why not just stick with Wallace instead of trading for Mills? If Mills is enough of an upgrade over Wallace to justify the risk of losing him, he's probably also getting claimed if we DFA him. I listed a Rodriguez release as a long-shot because his contract is only guaranteed for 1.5mil with 1.05mil coming in roster/appearance incentives. Players with highly incentive laden deals are often released early if the team determines there are better options, which is the reason for the incentive laden deal from the team side. This would depend on how he looks in spring training and how others look as well. It's actually quite common for teams to trade for a player and then DFA him. This gives them the inside shot of gaining the player without the use of a 40-man spot, which are in short supply. As a recent example, Hoy Park was DFAd by the Braves and passed through waivers successfully, less than a month after acquiring him from the Red Sox for a PTBNL/cash. Unless an injury occurs, I don't see Mills, a strict RHP v RHB option, as a great fit - but he does provide nice depth. The point of the thread is for discussion of players you believe will earn the last few 26-man roster spots. If you're interested, please list who you believe will receive these spots.
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Post by notstarboard on Jan 11, 2023 15:24:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we would sign Rodriguez only to release him before he throws a pitch. Especially given that he's the only lefty reliever on the roster (besides possibly Taylor), I think his spot is safe. My best guess is that we trade from the 40-man pitching depth when acquiring a middle IF, potentially someone in the Seabold or Winckowski bucket. A Dalbec trade wouldn't surprise me either. I could also see an Ort DFA if we need a spot. I doubt we'd DFA Mills and try to sneak him to Worcester. It's not as if Wallace was the stud of studs, but it seems strange to give up a prospect to acquire a guy who you then immediately expose to waivers. If the 40 man is that tight, why not just stick with Wallace instead of trading for Mills? If Mills is enough of an upgrade over Wallace to justify the risk of losing him, he's probably also getting claimed if we DFA him. I listed a Rodriguez release as a long-shot because his contract is only guaranteed for 1.5mil with 1.05mil coming in roster/appearance incentives. Players with highly incentive laden deals are often released early if the team determines there are better options, which is the reason for the incentive laden deal from the team side. This would depend on how he looks in spring training and how others look as well. It's actually quite common for teams to trade for a player and then DFA him. This gives them the inside shot of gaining the player without the use of a 40-man spot, which are in short supply. As a recent example, Hoy Park was DFAd by the Braves and passed through waivers successfully, less than a month after acquiring him from the Red Sox for a PTBNL/cash. Unless an injury occurs, I don't see Mills, a strict RHP v RHB option, as a great fit - but he does provide nice depth. The point of the thread is for discussion of players you believe will earn the last few 26-man roster spots. If you're interested, please list who you believe will receive these spots. Which better LHPs are we likely to acquire if not Rodriguez, though? Even if Taylor is a full go and effective, you typically want at least two lefties in the pen. Are there even any other LHP relief roster candidates? Paxton, Murphy, and Walter are the only other guys on the 40 man. I doubt Paxton will be in the pen and I doubt Murphy and Walter are even capable of showing enough in Spring Training to push the Sox into a DFA of Rodriguez. The roster will probably be just about set by then anyway. Maybe we sign a lefty reliever, but it feels weird to sign FA #1, DFA him, and sign FA #2 when FA #2 has been out there the whole time. Maybe they lose the game of musical chairs and their market value drops enough for it to make sense? Seems very unlikely. I understand that it is common to trade for a player and then DFA him, but when you're trading one reliever for another, both of whom on paper don't seem particularly impressive, why bother unless Mills is a clear upgrade over Wallace? This is oversimiplifying, but in order for that to make sense, Wallace needs to be worth less than (Mills * the odds of Mills not being claimed) + (anything we claw back in a trade * the odds of trading Mills following a DFA) - any 40 man casualties / moves resulting from Mills' acquisition. That says to be that the Sox are probably higher on Mills than his numbers on paper would suggest, and that in turn says to me that they probably aren't the only ones. I already partially responded to the question in the thread, but I'm happy to get more specific. I basically agree with your guess: I think we will make a trade for a middle IF with a package including one or more guys from the back of the 40 man (Seabold, Winckowski, Dalbec, Duran). That could be a Wendle or Rojas type, as has been rumored. My best guess would be Wendle, as I like his versatility and his LH bat makes sense given Arroyo and likely RH bat as the other middle IF. I could also see an Andrus signing. That would give us a starting middle IF of Andrus and an Arroyo/Wendle platoon. I'd expect we'd still have in the $5 million ballpark of room under the CBT. If a DFA is necessary, which I think is likely, I'd say the first guy up is Ort. The only question then is who would get the final spot on the bench. I think the odds-on favorite for that spot is Duran, given his speed and his (alleged) ability to play the OF. One other possibility I can think of would be signing Andrus, not trading for Wendle, and calling up Valdez to platoon with Arroyo. It just depends how high the Sox are on Valdez & how ready they think he is compared to the ask for acquiring a Wendle type.
Edit: fixed formula
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Post by jmei on Jan 11, 2023 16:22:35 GMT -5
I actually do think Paxton starts the year off as a reliever (and might stay in that role all season). I doubt Bloom is a guy who worries much about sunk costs and so if that 26-man spot is better spent on superior righty relievers without options (e.g., Brasier) or bench position players, J. Rodriguez might get cut before opening day.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jan 11, 2023 16:55:05 GMT -5
I actually do think Paxton starts the year off as a reliever (and might stay in that role all season). I doubt Bloom is a guy who worries much about sunk costs and so if that 26-man spot is better spent on superior righty relievers without options (e.g., Brasier) or bench position players, J. Rodriguez might get cut before opening day. Why do you think he’ll relieve? It seems like they are really counting on him as a starter. Just curious.
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Post by notstarboard on Jan 11, 2023 17:04:34 GMT -5
I actually do think Paxton starts the year off as a reliever (and might stay in that role all season). I doubt Bloom is a guy who worries much about sunk costs and so if that 26-man spot is better spent on superior righty relievers without options (e.g., Brasier) or bench position players, J. Rodriguez might get cut before opening day. To limit innings & injury risk, you think? Paxton has been a starter his whole career and to me he's probably one of the three best pitchers on the roster if healthy (4-5 fWAR pace from 2016-2019 before the COVID year and injuries struck). I don't think it makes sense to keep a guy like that in the pen unless they're worried his body can't take being a starter. I don't see any reason to expect his elbow or lat to still be a concern, though, and If we're just worried about injury risk based on age rather than some old injury flaring up we might as well push Kluber to the pen instead. I can see an argument that Paxton moving to the pen would help solve what would be a very right-handed bullpen if Taylor isn't a go, but if Taylor is pitching like his old self I'd prefer Taylor and Rodriguez in the pen and Paxton in the rotation.
Even with Paxton in the pen and a healthy and effective Taylor, though, I would rather have Rodriguez as a third lefty than Crawford or Brasier. Rodriguez has been solid: xERA, FIP, and xFIP in the mid 3s over the past couple seasons, which is better than Brasier, and Rodriguez is also younger. Crawford has options as well, so starting the year with Rodriguez on the major league roster instead maximizes depth. So, while I agree there's no point in caring about sunk cost if you have superior options, I don't see superior options, never mind options superior enough to justify hurting our relief depth, especially from the left side. If Bloom saw Crawford and/or Brasier as superior options to Rodriguez, I honestly don't understand the signing to begin with. Maaaaaybe you can argue he was hedging against not getting guys like Martin & Jansen? But then we're still back to the lefty depth issue. I'd rather DFA Ort and Brasier before getting to Rodriguez.
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Post by seamus on Jan 11, 2023 17:51:51 GMT -5
I actually do think Paxton starts the year off as a reliever (and might stay in that role all season). I doubt Bloom is a guy who worries much about sunk costs and so if that 26-man spot is better spent on superior righty relievers without options (e.g., Brasier) or bench position players, J. Rodriguez might get cut before opening day. Why do you think he’ll relieve? It seems like they are really counting on him as a starter. Just curious. He hasn't pitched much recently and they do have a lot of guys who could potentially be in the rotation, so using him in a piggyback/swingman-type of role could make some sense.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jan 11, 2023 18:05:04 GMT -5
Why do you think he’ll relieve? It seems like they are really counting on him as a starter. Just curious. He hasn't pitched much recently and they do have a lot of guys who could potentially be in the rotation, so using him in a piggyback/swingman-type of role could make some sense. That all makes sense, but if he starts the year as a reliever and one of the top five has a problem, it's hard to imagine they don't use him to replace him.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 12, 2023 13:37:17 GMT -5
Red Sox currently have Sale/Kluber/Pivetta/Whitlock/Bello penciled in as their 5 starters. Given the amount of time Paxton has missed, either a BP role or piggy-back (with Whitlock) seems most likely.
Paxton is 34, hasn't pitched in 2 years and has only pitched 21.2 innings over the past 4 years. He also has (had) stuff that should play up in the bullpen.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jan 12, 2023 16:33:36 GMT -5
Red Sox currently have Sale/Kluber/Pivetta/Whitlock/Bello penciled in as their 5 starters. Given the amount of time Paxton has missed, either a BP role or piggy-back (with Whitlock) seems most likely. Paxton is 34, hasn't pitched in 2 years and has only pitched 21.2 innings over the past 4 years. He also has (had) stuff that should play up in the bullpen. Man, good thing we went over the CBT last year to have the option of bringing this guy back. Sounds like a real difference maker.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 12, 2023 16:46:04 GMT -5
Please refrain from the troll-ish comments. Thanks.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 12, 2023 18:39:28 GMT -5
So for the rest of the 26 man, I think I agree with the original post there are really four slots sort of TBD right now:
- Starting short stop - Starting or bench second baseman/infielder - 5th outfielder/last guy on the bench - End of the bullpen - Wild card 5th change - they add one more starting pitcher
So for the starting short stop, I'm going to project Andrus, which I've been thinking pre-Story injury and it makes even more sense now.
For the second baseman slot, I'll project a trade for a versatile guy, but I don't think it's out of the question that they sign Iglesias too.
For the last bench slot right now, in my mind, you have Allen, Duran and Dalbec competing for that role. Allen or Duran would play center against some righties, and Kiké could either rest or play the infield those days. I think Allen is a better pick right now for his defense but you have to make 40 man room. Dalbec could play 1st/3rd/DH against lefties on occasion, but I think he's better off in AAA. I also think they could bring in another higher caliber player for this role. To throw a name out, maybe Ramon Laureano fits and Kiké moves to infield more often, but I think it's unlikely he's moved.
In the bullpen you have Jansen, Martin, Barnes, Schreiber and Houck locked in. This leaves sort of two slots (assuming a 6 man rotation) for Rodriguez, Mills, Taylor, Brasier. Rodriguez and Taylor will definitely get at least one of those spots, maybe both. I do think Houck could get moved in a trade for an up the middle guy, which would open another spot. As mentioned I think they also might acquire another starter (probably from the Marlins, but I think that's less likely).
As a side note I find it interesting that this site's projected roster now has Kiké starting at second and the team acquiring a CF and a SS, with Houck listed as a trade candidate not on the projected team. The projected roster also lists 27 players right now, with an extra guy on the pitching staff, I think.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jan 12, 2023 19:02:33 GMT -5
I endorse Greg Allen as the last guy on the bench. I got zero interest in Duran and Dalbec in the majors unless they mash in Worcester for a while. I am worried that Duran is going to start the year on the 26 man roster, unfortunately.
One MI needs to be added (Andrus). Then they have their choice between standing pat with an Arroyo/Valdez platoon at 2b, acquiring another MI, or acquiring a CF.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 12, 2023 20:04:43 GMT -5
I endorse Greg Allen as the last guy on the bench. I got zero interest in Duran and Dalbec in the majors unless they mash in Worcester for a while. I am worried that Duran is going to start the year on the 26 man roster, unfortunately. One MI needs to be added (Andrus). Then they have their choice between standing pat with an Arroyo/Valdez platoon at 2b, acquiring another MI, or acquiring a CF. Thinking through CF acquisitions and Kepler might be a good fit. He's +8 OAA for his career in center, in roughly one full season of innings. Against righties / lefties C - McGuire / Wong 1B - Casas 2B - Hernandez / Arroyo 3B - Devers SS - Andrus LF - Yoshida CF - Kepler / Hernandez RF - Verdugo / Refsnyder DH - Turner Sometimes you might start Turner at 1st with Kepler/Verdugo/Refsnyder in left/right and Yoshida DH'ing against lefties. Sometimes you might play Hernandez at short and Arroyo at second with Andrus sitting. I kind of like that line up. Obviously platoons are never so clean, but hypothetically, the only times they'd project as less than a 95 wRC+ are: shortstop and second against righties. In every other situation their batter has above a 95 career split (technically, Andrus is at 94 for his career against lefties) or is Yoshida. Eventually you might have Valdez in the last bench spot here and he could get some starts at second against righties, where he is hopefully above average too. Story returning eventually would also give you that of course.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 20, 2023 12:11:23 GMT -5
With the recent signings, seems like Duvall takes one of the infield slots (pushing Kiké to more of a time share) while Tapia/Duran/Allen fight for the last outfield slot.
Then Alfaro battles Wong for the last catcher slot.
That leaves one middle infield slot open with Edwin Diaz as the best inhouse candidate. Guessing we still get another SS option - perhaps it will materialize once pitchers/catchers report so there's more temporary 40-man space.
Will be interesting to see how the relief pitcher crunch works itself out.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 20, 2023 12:18:35 GMT -5
Yeah I imagine they’ll add another infield option. Edwin Diaz and his career .542 OPS in AAA isn’t going to be the primary depth option (I would hope)
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 20, 2023 12:21:25 GMT -5
With the recent signings, seems like Duvall takes one of the infield slots (pushing Kiké to more of a time share) while Tapia/Duran/Allen fight for the last outfield slot. Then Alfaro battles Wong for the last catcher slot. That leaves one middle infield slot open with Edwin Diaz as the best inhouse candidate. Guessing we still get another SS option - perhaps it will materialize once pitchers/catchers report so there's more temporary 40-man space. Will be interesting to see how the relief pitcher crunch works itself out. Nitpick here but I would think Goodrum would be the in-house favorite vs. Diaz for the spot, I'd have Valdez above him too. I expect them to add a guy though so it's probably moot.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 26, 2023 12:32:11 GMT -5
Assuming there are no more signings/trades, and everyone who is currently healthy stays healthy (unlikely of course), it appears there will be the following roster competitions:
1 relief pitcher slot: - Wyatt Mills (40; has 1 option) - Franklin German (40) - Kaleb Ort (40) - Zack Kelly (40) - Kutter Crawford (40) - Ryan Sherriff (NRI) - Matt Dermody (NRI) - Oddanier Masqueda (NRI) - Norwith Gudino (NRI)
1 outfield slot: - Jarren Duran (40) - Raimel Tapia (NRI) - Greg Allen (NRI)
1 middle infield slot: - Adalberto Mondesi (40; IL) - Nick Goodrum (NRI) - David Hamilton (40) - Enmanuel Valdez (40) - Ceddanne Rafaela (40) - Ryan Fitzgerald
For relief pitcher Wyatt Mills seems to be the popular pick but he wasn't very good last year and still has an option, so I think the competition is pretty wide open. Crawford made the team last year and was pretty good against RHBs in 21 appearances (3.07 FIP; 4.2 xFIP).
Duran has options and upside. Could see the Red Sox wanting to get him more playing time at AAA and using the opened (Story) 40-man spot here.
Mondesi seems a safe bet if healthy, but it's too early to tell if that will be the case. Goodrum/Fitzgerald seem like easy utility choices who would likely pass through waivers. They could also promote one of the other guys on the 40 if Mondesi is only expected to miss a few days (Long term Valdez/Hamilton can't play SS well and Rafaela needs playing time).
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jan 28, 2023 22:51:12 GMT -5
Crawford starts the year in the Worcester rotation as the first guy up in case of injury. He's a SP, not a RP.
EDIT: I could see Crawford making the opening day roster as a piggy-back partner for Paxton (if he's ready) or Sale (although wouldn't Houck be more fun there?).
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Post by iakovos11 on Jan 28, 2023 23:22:48 GMT -5
I think Crawford and Winck are best in some type of relief role, maybe 1 inning ish, maybe multiple innings - the Whitlock role.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jan 29, 2023 0:13:26 GMT -5
I think Crawford and Winck are best in some type of relief role, maybe 1 inning ish, maybe multiple innings - the Whitlock role. They tried Crawford in relief to start last year. It didn't work out for him, in terms of routine and preparation -- AC was very open about that -- and they moved him back to a SP role, whether in Worcester or Boston, for the remainder of the season. I would be surprised if they tried him in the bullpen again.
Winckowski is another guy who has always been SP-only.
It's easy to say that all mediocre SPs should just be put in the bullpen (where "their stuff should play up") but not every starter can flip that switch. Crawford and Winckowski can still have value as 6th/7th starters, staying sharp and working on things in AAA -- or as trade chips to teams who see something more in them.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 29, 2023 12:05:50 GMT -5
Eh, Winck was throwing 99 in the AFL out of the pen. I wouldn’t necessarily put a “starter-only” tag on him, especially if he’s mediocre as a starter again at the big league level
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 30, 2023 9:29:25 GMT -5
Adalberto Mondesi gives the Red Sox an interesting middle infield option, but he’s still rehabbing from last year’s knee injury and might not be on the roster when the team breaks camp. “There is still a ways to go with that,” chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom said this week. “Our expectation is that he may be a little delayed to start the season, but Opening Day is still a possibility.” theathletic.com/4131376/2023/01/29/eight-questions-red-sox/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jan 30, 2023 10:00:56 GMT -5
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