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4/22-4/24 Red Sox vs. Athletics Series Thread
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 22, 2013 21:12:08 GMT -5
Soooo... Junichi Tazawa for eight pitches, two-thirds of an inning, and then Andrew Bailey for the third day in a row? Someone defend this. Tazawa gave up a rocket that damn near tied the game up. Maybe, that's why. Took a great catch by Victorino from being 9-8 with the tying run on third and one out.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 22, 2013 21:13:02 GMT -5
Soooo... Junichi Tazawa for eight pitches, two-thirds of an inning, and then Andrew Bailey for the third day in a row? Someone defend this. I would prefer to not waste Tazawa with a three run cushion unless the team is in dire straits (like it was in the 8th inning). Though, I would also prefer save Baily, too. EDIT: I should note that I blame this all on the Sporting News who in the 1960s arbitrarily decided that finishing a game with a three run lead qualifies as a save. If a save was only awarded in two or one run situations, then maybe the best relief pitchers would not be wasted in three run leads. Anyway, this complaint has been made for years, and it does not look like it is going to change any time soon.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 22, 2013 21:14:39 GMT -5
Considering it's NESN, this wouldn't surprise me.
I mean, they have a studio analyst on right now (Jim Rice) who doesn't speak English.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 22, 2013 21:23:00 GMT -5
Jim Rice's mouth throws knuckleballs. Knucklewords.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 22, 2013 21:32:56 GMT -5
I think our pen ends up being; Hanrahan, Bailey, Tazawa, Uehara and Breslow. They are you're 7-9 inning guys when ahead or tied. Hopefully, not the 6th too often. My last two would probably be Aceves and Morales. Mainly, because they can go more than one inning. And, each can also give you a spot start. I just don't trust Miller in any tight situation which makes him useless to bring in with runners on base. I can see the argument for Mortenson over Aceves. But, if the Farrell thinks Aceves has the right attitude. He's a little more versatile.
If Lackey has another setback and looks like he's going to miss significant time. I'd just like to see what Webster can do. Still have Wright in AAA once he gets sent down. Who knows what we're going to get out of Rubby or Bard??
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Post by Guidas on Apr 22, 2013 21:34:50 GMT -5
I'd drop Hassan to the 60 day DL or dump him off the 40 man all together and add Martin. Hassan doesn't belong there anyway.
ADDED: This also evidences the problem, as was mentioned, of bringing up Wright and having Aceves start instead of bringing up Webster when Lackey went down. No doubt they were managing Aceves who perhaps they thought they may lose mentaly if he didn't get the chance to start, but if you are afraid to bring in a long man because no one can catch him then he shouldn't be up, period.
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Post by station13 on Apr 22, 2013 22:27:46 GMT -5
It's kinda a joke Tazawa and Bailey had to pitch in this game. Get some middle relievers already, not mop up relievers.
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 22, 2013 23:35:17 GMT -5
For everyone wondering why Wright is on the roster, well tomorrow we have Aceves on the mound and a burnt out pen. Hmm...has the feel of a (Insert any 2012 SP) start.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 23, 2013 6:37:16 GMT -5
For everyone wondering why Wright is on the roster, well tomorrow we have Aceves on the mound and a burnt out pen. Hmm...has the feel of a (Insert any 2012 SP) start. Heh, good call. Though it actually almost reminds me more of the second half of 2011, where Aceves was at the other side, as the piggyback starter the entire rotation. I'm not sure if it's more ridiculous that he finished second on the team in innings that September without making a start, or that he pitched so well doing it.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 23, 2013 7:25:39 GMT -5
For everyone wondering why Wright is on the roster, well tomorrow we have Aceves on the mound and a burnt out pen. Hmm...has the feel of a (Insert any 2012 SP) start. Heh, good call. Though it actually almost reminds me more of the second half of 2011, where Aceves was at the other side, as the piggyback starter the entire rotation. I'm not sure if it's more ridiculous that he finished second on the team in innings that September without making a start, or that he pitched so well doing it. Continuing my rantings on modern pitcher usage, it's kind of sad that it took a major crisis to convince Francona to use Aceves in an unconventional fashion, and even though it worked so well and really seemed to fit Aceves's skill set, it'll never be tried again.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 23, 2013 7:51:31 GMT -5
One thing I like about Farrell is letting his starters go back out with high pitch counts. Did it last night, Buchholz has done it in at least two of his starts as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 23, 2013 8:06:12 GMT -5
It's kinda a joke Tazawa and Bailey had to pitch in this game. Get some middle relievers already, not mop up relievers. I'm not sure I understand your issue. A couple injuries and one players in effectiveness have shortened the pen a bit. Despite that its still an impressive group. Wilson and Mortenson are effectively the teams 9th and 10th bullpen options. That's damn good. Mortenson was very good last year in his role and prior to last night had been good this year. This from your " mop up guy" is very good. Wilson has done a good job in his first 5 major league outings. He walked a guy last night. It happens, especially when it was probably his first real pressure situation in the majors. 1.Hanrahan 2.Bailey 3.Tazawa 4.Uehara 5.Breslow 6.Aceves 7.Morales 8.Miller 9. Mortenson 10. Wilson If you aren't satisfied with the makeup and depth of the bullpen options his year then your expectations are out of whack. You probably want an upgrade at second base because Pedey hasn't hit for any power.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 23, 2013 9:38:32 GMT -5
Miller has been frustrating thus far. Until he straightens out his control problems he is not someone I really want on the mound in tight situations, even against lefties. I feel much more comfortable with Uehara, Tazawa, and Bailey against tough lefties.
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Post by feez732 on Apr 23, 2013 10:20:33 GMT -5
A bit of a follow up on the Doubront discussion:
Since the start of 2012, the average Major League start has been 5.876 ip. Since the start of 2012, the average Doubront start has been 5.552 ip.
Those obviously aren't in the traditional notation (where .1 denotes an out). Given that .333 would convert back to one out, Doubront has averaged just a hair under one out less than the average major league start.
He'll also be 25 years old for the entire 2013 regular season and ranks 17th in the majors in strikeout percentage since the start of 2012 (minimum 150 innings pitched).
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Post by elguapo on Apr 23, 2013 11:01:37 GMT -5
The 40-man looks tight because of the number of injuries currently. I'd include De La Rosa since they're easing him back in slowly. They probably don't need both Holt and Ciriaco on the 40, or 5 catchers (would Butler be the first to go?) One is on the 25-man. One at AAA. There's no excess of middle infield depth. Agree about the catchers. We had only 2 backup OF on the 40-man (Kalish & Hassan), but both got injured and they decided to add Bradley early, which of course made the roster tighter. But we still only have two (Bradley/Hassan), plus Kalish on the 60-day. Britton is one clog and they shoulda included him in a trade last offseason as some of us wanted. After all the whining here about how great and useful and valuable the Sox considered Mauro Gomez, and carrying him all offseason, when the first string DH got injured they decided Gomez was way down the totem pole and finally cut him.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 23, 2013 11:04:18 GMT -5
A bit of a follow up on the Doubront discussion: Since the start of 2012, the average Major League start has been 5.876 ip. Since the start of 2012, the average Doubront start has been 5.552 ip. Those obviously aren't in the traditional notation (where .1 denotes an out). Given that .333 would convert back to one out, Doubront has averaged just a hair under one out less than the average major league start. He'll also be 25 years old for the entire 2013 regular season and ranks 17th in the majors in strikeout percentage since the start of 2012 (minimum 150 innings pitched). I think that is the most frustrating part about watching him for me. He OOZES with talent. Throws some great pitches. But then he wastes soooooo many pitches in terrible spots and ends up with many more walks than he should....which turns into shortened outings. I see him as a guy that could be much more than he is, if he would stop Diasuke-ing it up.
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Post by jmei on Apr 23, 2013 11:31:22 GMT -5
The main problem with the 40-man crunch is that you have five injured players who won't be injured long enough to put on the 60-day DL (Hassan, Lackey, Breslow, Morales, Hanrahan), as well as one pitcher coming off TJ surgery (De La Rosa) and another who has upside but needs to work through mechanical problems in the minor leagues (Bard). Other than the guys above, the only players on the 40-man who wouldn't be one injury away from a probable call-up are Vazquez, Britton and maybe Lavarnway. Wright/Wilson are up already, Webster is next in line to start, Butler is the third catcher, Holt is the backup 2B/SS/3B, and Bradley is the backup LF/CF/RF. Those guys are crucial Pawtucket shuttle-type guys and are probably safe. Hassan's spot seems to be pretty precarious-- he's not an ideal 60-day DL candidate since he's supposed to be ready for game action in the next few days, but he didn't have a real Spring Training either so he'll need at least a few weeks of ramping up. If the Red Sox are desperate for another 40 spot, I'd either 60-day DL him or just DFA him. For me, the next most precarious spot is Wright-- Farrell clearly has no intention of using him this year in non-emergency situations (in which case, you might as well just have Ciriaco or Middlebrooks go out there and throw the end of a blowout), and unless he shows significant progress, the next wave of starting pitchers (Workman, Britton, Barnes, Ranaudo) may be ready for Pawtucket by midseason. Yeah, he's "intriguing" or whatever, but once Morales/Lackey are healthy, he's like 10th on the SP depth chart and the unknown of the knuckleball won't justify having him keep a AAA rotation spot over a more promising pitcher.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 23, 2013 12:09:55 GMT -5
Disagree on both Hassan & Wright. Hassan is in line after Bradley at the moment, so unless two OF go down they don't need him immediately and he has time to get up to speed, and they'd probably end up having to add another OF later anyway. Wright has minimal AAA experience and not in the bullpen - he's just up too early in the season and in the wrong role, and thus being used as an emergency long reliever. Later in the season he could be called up for a few starts.
Butler offers no advantage over Vazquez for a 15-day DL stint. That's what, 2 starts? Adding Butler made sense if we were shedding a catcher via trade but that petered out, and now we're stuck with 5 - if the enigma that is Ryan Lavarnway counts.
Andrew Miller's spot could be in jeopardy when Breslow returns if he's going to be a one-batter pitcher, and as likely to walk the guy as strike him out. The way Farrell is using the pen he will need 7 real relievers.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 23, 2013 12:52:20 GMT -5
I see Holt as another speed bump on the 40 man. He is Drew Sutton give or take small sample stats. Ciriaco and Iglesias cancel him out. You may need a guy like this, but with those assets in hand you don't need him on the 40 man.
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Post by jmei on Apr 23, 2013 13:03:37 GMT -5
The problem with Hassan is that there are three Hassan-like players on the big league squad already in Nava, Gomes, and Carp, and they're all under team control for next year as well. It's really silly to have four LFers on the 40-man, especially since guys like Bradley might get playing time at the position as well. Plus, with his delayed start to the season, now might be the ideal time to sneak him through waivers.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 23, 2013 13:35:04 GMT -5
I agree. Hassan really has no place on the 40-man, and in the future, our call-ups are far more likely to be Maier, Brentz, or Bradley, ie. players who offer some versatility/big-time promise.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 23, 2013 13:49:17 GMT -5
Scott Lauber ?@scottlauber 19s #RedSox vs. OAK: Ellsbury CF, Victorino RF, Pedroia 2B, Napoli 1B, Nava LF, Middlebrooks 3B, Saltalamacchia C, Gomes DH, Drew SS. Aceves.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 23, 2013 13:54:39 GMT -5
I see Holt as another speed bump on the 40 man. He is Drew Sutton give or take small sample stats. Ciriaco and Iglesias cancel him out. You may need a guy like this, but with those assets in hand you don't need him on the 40 man. Holt has value because has options. He is needed because he can come up to the majors if Ciriaco, Middlebrooks or Pedroia gets hurt, then return to the minors when the roster is healthy. Both Ciraco and Sutton would need to pass through waivers if either was demoted. Holt thus has more value than either Sutton or Ciriaco.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Apr 23, 2013 14:46:29 GMT -5
Is it curious that Gomes is DHing instead of Carp?
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Post by elguapo on Apr 23, 2013 15:02:44 GMT -5
Is it curious that Gomes is DHing instead of Carp? I'm not sure curious is the right word.
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