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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2023 19:07:09 GMT -5
Hereâs the thing about depth. Guys like Yu Chang or Raimel Tapia are not meaningful depth. They are replacement-level spaghetti against the wall. Depth means having legitimate major league players on your bench. If guys like Duvall or Arroyo were backups rather starters entering spring training, that would be depth. I donât buy the Story and Mondesi injuries as excuses. They knew both those guys would be out for big chunks of the season midway through the offseason. They really needed to add another middle infielder (and there were options in Andrus, Iglesias and others) but chose not to and are now dealing with the consequences. They seemingly chose Chang over Iglesias, considering the latter signed a minor league deal. So disagree with your evaluations of the players but it seems clear the team considered Chang a more viable MLBer. Iâm also not sure you can say âjust sign Andrus and Duvallâ because both those guys wanted starting jobs and the Red Sox only had one to give. The bizarro dimension of this conversation is that, with how things started, the Duvall move looks absolutely genius. That was an outside-the-box solution to the unexpected injury to Story that might not have occurred to a lot of teams, and it could not possibly have worked better through the first week of the season.
We can grouse about it pushing Kiké to SS, but they addressed that, too, with the Mondesi addition, and even with that progressing slower than expected at worst we're looking at Kiké as SS through May, which is not totally disastrous, all things considered - and with Chang as a viable plan E or whatever to boot.
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Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2023 19:07:12 GMT -5
Here’s the thing about depth. Guys like Yu Chang or Raimel Tapia are not meaningful depth. They are replacement-level spaghetti against the wall. Depth means having legitimate major league players on your bench. If guys like Duvall or Arroyo were backups rather starters entering spring training, that would be depth. I don’t buy the Story and Mondesi injuries as excuses. They knew both those guys would be out for big chunks of the season midway through the offseason. They really needed to add another middle infielder (and there were options in Andrus, Iglesias and others) but chose not to and are now dealing with the consequences. On the one hand, sure, but on the other hand, we gave ~1500 PAs last year to guys who were considerably worse than replacement level, many of whom hadn't even played meaningful innings at the MLB level. Guys like Chang and Tapia have at least had several years of major league experience and have been a bit above replacement level over their careers. Refsnyder is obviously a regression candidate, but he was straight up good last year.
Disagree about Mondesi, though. I remember on the SP podcast Chris and Ian hadn't even thought moving Mondesi to the 60-day was on the table and spent some time debating other possible roster moves if we wanted to add a guy like Tapia. I also remember an interview with Cora early in Spring Training in which he said Mondesi still had an outside chance of making the Opening Day roster. So, I really don't think they were planning on him not being an option until June.
Yes, I agree that they had bad depth last year, too. This front office seems to talk a lot about the concept but then run out a revolving door of replacement-level guys. Mondesi was always going to miss at least a month. The games count in April, too.
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 12, 2023 19:07:17 GMT -5
I don't think there's really any way to know what Mondesi's timeline was supposed to be. His timeline might be meeting the expectations they had when they acquired him, or maybe he pulled a hammy and is dealing with a new injury. I don't think they're really giving away enough info to know
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Apr 12, 2023 19:09:59 GMT -5
Chang sucks at everything lol
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Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2023 19:10:38 GMT -5
They seemingly chose Chang over Iglesias, considering the latter signed a minor league deal. So disagree with your evaluations of the players but it seems clear the team considered Chang a more viable MLBer. IâÂÂm also not sure you can say âÂÂjust sign Andrus and Duvallâ because both those guys wanted starting jobs and the Red Sox only had one to give. The bizarro dimension of this conversation is that, with how things started, the Duvall move looks absolutely genius. That was an outside-the-box solution to the unexpected injury to Story that might not have occurred to a lot of teams, and it could not possibly have worked better through the first week of the season. We can grouse about it pushing Kiké to SS, but they addressed that, too, with the Mondesi addition, and even with that progressing slower than expected at worst we're looking at Kiké as SS through May, which is not totally disastrous, all things considered - and with Chang as a viable plan E or whatever to boot.
They could have absolutely signed both. I do not think you can call pushing Kiké to SS a genius move considering how bad he has been defensively there, which was entirely predictable. Kiké is a great example of a player who should be your first guy off the bench. His 2021 is increasingly looking like the outlier.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 12, 2023 19:10:48 GMT -5
why do I watch, every night? oof.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 12, 2023 19:10:51 GMT -5
how is that not a double play ? Frustrating. and of course, another rocket.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 12, 2023 19:11:41 GMT -5
On the one hand, sure, but on the other hand, we gave ~1500 PAs last year to guys who were considerably worse than replacement level, many of whom hadn't even played meaningful innings at the MLB level. Guys like Chang and Tapia have at least had several years of major league experience and have been a bit above replacement level over their careers. Refsnyder is obviously a regression candidate, but he was straight up good last year.
Disagree about Mondesi, though. I remember on the SP podcast Chris and Ian hadn't even thought moving Mondesi to the 60-day was on the table and spent some time debating other possible roster moves if we wanted to add a guy like Tapia. I also remember an interview with Cora early in Spring Training in which he said Mondesi still had an outside chance of making the Opening Day roster. So, I really don't think they were planning on him not being an option until June.
Yes, I agree that they had bad depth last year, too. This front office seems to talk a lot about the concept but then run out a revolving door of replacement-level guys. Mondesi was always going to miss at least a month. The games count in April, too. Mondesi is always hurt. That’s who he has been his entire career. Betting on a guy like that to play a meaningful role this year was just plain wishcasting.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:07 GMT -5
Chang sucks at everything lol Easy. Let’s not say things we can’t take back now….
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Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:33 GMT -5
man, they just gave it back so easily. how can that be ?
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Post by wildsox on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:36 GMT -5
Lol more execution! Can’t turn 2 and they drive in the run
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2023 19:14:09 GMT -5
Have you checked on what Andrus or Iglesias have been up to lately? Andrus is at -0.4 WAR on the season and Iglesias didn't even make the Marlins major league roster. If the Red Sox felt that Yu Chang was a straight up better alternative than those guys... well, they haven't been proven wrong yet. I donât think any reasonable projection system should have Yu Chang as a better player than Andrus or Iglesias. I will bet an avatar that from this point forward Andrus will be better than Chang. I would never risk my Harry Dean, but Chang has a career wRC+ of 75 to Andrus' 86 and Andrus is 7 years older. Plus look at what Andrus' market value turned out to be. I don't actually think it's crazy to suppose that they valued Chang more highly. Plus there's the issue scottysmalls pointed to about Andrus needing to start.
Plus it's not really Chang vs. Andrus; it's Kiké/Mondesi vs. Andrus, and even now I still prefer Kiké/Mondesi.
Now the thing I wanted them to do up the middle was add Segura. So I don't think they're faultless. But as it's happened Arroyo has actually stayed healthy so far.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 12, 2023 19:14:25 GMT -5
wasn't it the Orioles squad that won like 18 in a row to start the year ? That record is in serious jeopardy the way these punks are playing.
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Post by backwardsk on Apr 12, 2023 19:15:07 GMT -5
Chang sucks at everything lol I don't think waiting 6 weeks until Mondesi comes back with Chang playing SS is going to work.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 12, 2023 19:15:18 GMT -5
Oh no
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Post by manfred on Apr 12, 2023 19:15:18 GMT -5
Bet the computer says Kelly is killing it.
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 12, 2023 19:16:15 GMT -5
Annnnnd Kelly is done for the year. Wow.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 12, 2023 19:16:33 GMT -5
oh man. that emotion of kelly is gut wrenching. Feel bad for him.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Apr 12, 2023 19:16:57 GMT -5
Chang sucks at everything lol Easy. Let’s not say things we can’t take back now…. I wanted to say something after the brutal swing on that K, but didn’t for your sake. After the missed double play opp, I had to. And there goes Kelly for the season too. Should have been out of the inning
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 12, 2023 19:17:01 GMT -5
oh good, Braiser.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 12, 2023 19:17:17 GMT -5
This team is losing the division in April.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Apr 12, 2023 19:18:35 GMT -5
Can Ryan Brasier filibuster this warmup? He has a long as he needs and Adam Duval won't be back for at least 6 weeks.
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Post by backwardsk on Apr 12, 2023 19:20:08 GMT -5
Can Ryan Brasier filibuster this warmup? He has a long as he needs and Adam Duval won't be back for at least 6 weeks. He should take until 2024.
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Post by blevin33 on Apr 12, 2023 19:20:46 GMT -5
Kelly has worked so hard to get here. Absolutely devastated.
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