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5/1-5/4 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
cdj
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Post by cdj on May 4, 2023 6:28:28 GMT -5
Changing up the vibe in the clubhouse was so necessary, it had definitely become toxic last year.
Guys aren’t giving away AB’s. Our big hitters actually get hits to knock in runs. Life is good right now.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 4, 2023 7:14:09 GMT -5
Changing up the vibe in the clubhouse was so necessary, it had definitely become toxic last year. Guys aren’t giving away AB’s. Our big hitters actually get hits to knock in runs. Life is good right now. Agreed. Last years team was so difficult to watch. Do I think this team will make the playoffs? I don't know. But what I do know is that they'll at least be more watchable. The big issue with this team that I see is pitching. They're sunk without a reliable starter.
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Post by dcb26 on May 4, 2023 7:56:23 GMT -5
Said it before in one of the off-season threads, and I don't have anything to back this up so take it fwiw, but I definitely think there was a conscious effort in the off-season to move on from certain players who were, if not toxic, at least a bad fit in the clubhouse culture going forward.
Also, and again I know this is probably too far on the theoretical side for many, but I really think that players like Jansen, Turner, and Kluber give the team a sense of legitimacy they had lost previously. Having respected, winning, veterans not only join the team but clearly buy in and become a "part" of the team and culture does a lot for the group in the clubhouse, and says something to opponents as well. It's different when players like that choose to join a team and buy in, rather than when players are still here and simply playing out a contract. Put another way, I don't think they have the swagger they do right now without those guys
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nomar
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Post by nomar on May 4, 2023 7:58:59 GMT -5
Changing up the vibe in the clubhouse was so necessary, it had definitely become toxic last year. Guys aren’t giving away AB’s. Our big hitters actually get hits to knock in runs. Life is good right now. Agreed. Last years team was so difficult to watch. Do I think this team will make the playoffs? I don't know. But what I do know is that they'll at least be more watchable. The big issue with this team that I see is pitching. They're sunk without a reliable starter. Based on how little every rental was worth at the deadline last year, I’d love to add Giolito.
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Post by rhswanzey on May 4, 2023 8:37:27 GMT -5
Merloni (who is doing excellent work in the radio booth) kept mentioning how among all teams’ 7-9 hitters, the Sox rank first in hits and second in XBH. Duran’s a nice chunk of that, but it’s come from a lot of other places, too. You have to imagine this lineup is a real pain to pitch to. There’s a lot of grind at bats and traffic, and the bottom half is doing a great job of making pitchers spend some of their bullets before they have to go through the top half again. I don’t want to see guys taking pitches for the sake of it and putting themselves in holes, but it’s not what’s happening. A very disciplined approach that, in between more hitters’ counts/deep counts and more contact, is creating way more opportunities for the opposition to help us out than we had in the past two years.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 4, 2023 8:48:31 GMT -5
For those keeping score at home, the last place Yankees would be: - half a game out of first in the AL Central (what an absolute wasteland of a division) - third in the AL West, two games out of first - second in the NL East, 4.5 games out of first - third in the NL Central, 3.5 games out of first (how about those pirates!!) - Tied for third in the NL West, two games out of first
Also just looking at the standings it seems as if we’ve played the most games against teams above .500, the Orioles close to the least
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Post by julyanmorley on May 4, 2023 9:10:23 GMT -5
Clicking through the Blue Jays top prospect list, looks like 0 out of 10 guys are having a good season. Lots of big arb raises coming this offseason. Manoah will be their only guy still cheap and he's replacement level this year. Chapman is a free agent. Looks like after this season that club will have passed their peak and start to decline.
Would be hilarious if they developed a ton of talent, tastefully entered into Go For It Now mode and the bottoming out Red Sox still finished ahead of them two out of three years.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on May 4, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5
Clicking through the Blue Jays top prospect list, looks like 0 out of 10 guys are having a good season. Lots of big arb raises coming this offseason. Manoah will be their only guy still cheap and he's replacement level this year. Chapman is a free agent. Looks like after this season that club will have passed their peak and start to decline. Would be hilarious if they developed a ton of talent, tastefully entered into Go For It Now mode and the bottoming out Red Sox still finished ahead of them two out of three years. Unfortunately Manzardo looks like a stud for the Rays, and I think Mead will bounce back too. They keep producing bats.
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Post by julyanmorley on May 4, 2023 9:21:02 GMT -5
I do not enjoy checking in on the guys on the Rays and Orioles prospect lists
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 4, 2023 9:22:12 GMT -5
Clicking through the Blue Jays top prospect list, looks like 0 out of 10 guys are having a good season. Lots of big arb raises coming this offseason. Manoah will be their only guy still cheap and he's replacement level this year. Chapman is a free agent. Looks like after this season that club will have passed their peak and start to decline. Would be hilarious if they developed a ton of talent, tastefully entered into Go For It Now mode and the bottoming out Red Sox still finished ahead of them two out of three years. Unfortunately Manzardo looks like a stud for the Rays, and I think Mead will bounce back too. They keep producing bats. I'd like to point out that Tiedemann is working his way back from injury, and struck out 9 SeaDogs in 3 innings, and Barriera is also just getting rolling, and had a good debut. I'd love for all the Jays to bust, but I don't see those 2 not being contributors
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 4, 2023 9:24:59 GMT -5
Agreed. Last years team was so difficult to watch. Do I think this team will make the playoffs? I don't know. But what I do know is that they'll at least be more watchable. The big issue with this team that I see is pitching. They're sunk without a reliable starter. Based on how little every rental was worth at the deadline last year, I’d love to add Giolito. If he comes cheap that would be the logical add.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on May 4, 2023 9:41:08 GMT -5
Clicking through the Blue Jays top prospect list, looks like 0 out of 10 guys are having a good season. Lots of big arb raises coming this offseason. Manoah will be their only guy still cheap and he's replacement level this year. Chapman is a free agent. Looks like after this season that club will have passed their peak and start to decline. Would be hilarious if they developed a ton of talent, tastefully entered into Go For It Now mode and the bottoming out Red Sox still finished ahead of them two out of three years. Eh, perhaps but I wouldn't count the Jays out in the coming years either. Vlad and Bichette are both going to be there through 2025, as we saw last year with the Sox you need more than two good position players to make a good team but you never know.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 4, 2023 9:58:08 GMT -5
I am considerably more optimistic about the starting pitching than most. Considering the injury history and recovery curves, we're actually doing quite well. If I heard the Jays announcer correctly, the Jays have only used 14 pitchers all year.
We started the year with 3/5 of our starting rotation on the IL and we're about to get an additional piece.
Stats don't take the situation into account and what I'm seeing visually has me hyped.
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Post by rhswanzey on May 4, 2023 10:08:12 GMT -5
Houck comes out for the 6th after a 6-run fifth, and puts up a zero. Offense ties it in the bottom half of the inning.
Pivetta gets in a 1st and 3rd jam with no outs in the fourth and puts up a zero. Offense ties it in the bottom half of the inning.
Giant inflection points in each game.
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Post by incandenza on May 4, 2023 10:40:14 GMT -5
I thought a great outcome for this season would be to get 3 WAR out of the CF position, and they're at 2.4 through May 2nd. (With a 204 wRC+, which is higher than any single player in the majors.)
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Post by taiwansox on May 4, 2023 10:41:37 GMT -5
I thought a great outcome for this season would be to get 3 WAR out of the CF position, and they're at 2.4 through May 2nd. (With a 204 wRC+, which is higher than any singly player in the majors.) Just a minor upgrade over 2022 Kiké/JBJ
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Post by yuchangclan on May 4, 2023 11:20:57 GMT -5
Tomorrow Cora will need to piece together the bullpen availability from: RH Chris Martin RH John Schreiber LH Richard Bleier LH Brennan Bernardino RH Ryan Brasier The lineup is definitely longer with the additions of Duran, Valdez, and Wong! It also keeps Refsnyder and Arroyo doing what they do best which is hitting against mainly LHP. Its still early, but i do wonder if the rumors of clubhouse issues may be somewhat true. ( the triston casas example from last season was on my mind this week for some reason) This team seems more loose than last year I don’t tend to put a lot of value into the concept of a “good clubhouse guy”, but if there IS such a thing, it’s Justin Turner. I am in SoCal and watch a lot of Dodgers games. He’s been the glue on that team for many years. He’s the guy all the other players love and rally around. I’m guessing he brought that vibe to the Sox. There are a lot of other differences between this year and last year, but I think he’s a big plus.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 4, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -5
The Duvall injury was a major test for the lineup. Very impressive.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 4, 2023 11:33:46 GMT -5
For those keeping score at home, the last place Yankees would be: - half a game out of first in the AL Central (what an absolute wasteland of a division) - third in the AL West, two games out of first - second in the NL East, 4.5 games out of first - third in the NL Central, 3.5 games out of first (how about those pirates!!) - Tied for third in the NL West, two games out of first Also just looking at the standings it seems as if we’ve played the most games against teams above .500, the Orioles close to the least But they're not in any of those divisions so they're in last place. They're in the AL East in a 5 team division, looking up at 4 teams, so last place Yankees it is. It has a nice ring to it. Sure last place in the AL East won't be confused with the 1962 Mets, but one thing is guaranteed, whoever finishes last in the division won't be going to the postseason. Hope the Yankees are watching their division mates in October.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 4, 2023 11:38:17 GMT -5
The Duvall injury was a major test for the lineup. Very impressive. I remember saying that the fantasy scenario was that Jarren Duran comes up and suddenly blossoms. Didnt believe that was the most likely outcome, but here we are. When it's a good year thing like that tend to happen. If the Sox get to 43-32 like last year's team somehow did, they're not going to end up 78-84.
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Post by manfred on May 4, 2023 12:30:38 GMT -5
I thought a great outcome for this season would be to get 3 WAR out of the CF position, and they're at 2.4 through May 2nd. (With a 204 wRC+, which is higher than any single player in the majors.) I now think only acceptable outcome is Duran at 5+ WAR. I’m wearing my engineer cap on the train cheering insanely.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 4, 2023 13:40:49 GMT -5
The Duvall injury was a major test for the lineup. Very impressive. The fact they're doing this with Devers having a so so year is mighty impressive.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 4, 2023 13:40:54 GMT -5
I thought a great outcome for this season would be to get 3 WAR out of the CF position, and they're at 2.4 through May 2nd. (With a 204 wRC+, which is higher than any single player in the majors.) I now think only acceptable outcome is Duran at 5+ WAR. I’m wearing my engineer cap on the train cheering insanely. I really like the new, productive Duran (and the new happy, positive train engineer).
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Post by dirtywaterinla on May 4, 2023 13:53:37 GMT -5
Changing up the vibe in the clubhouse was so necessary, it had definitely become toxic last year. Guys aren’t giving away AB’s. Our big hitters actually get hits to knock in runs. Life is good right now. Agreed. Last years team was so difficult to watch. Do I think this team will make the playoffs? I don't know. But what I do know is that they'll at least be more watchable. The big issue with this team that I see is pitching. They're sunk without a reliable starter. Honestly, I'm pretty optimistic that SP will turn a corner in the next week or two. Only a matter of time...
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on May 4, 2023 14:01:09 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned that there's good reason to believe that team hitting "clutch" is streaky. And that makes complete sense psychologically.
And players treat high-leverage situations differently. After Verdugo had his second great year in high leverage, I decided that he just liked it. It fit his easily observed personality that his reaction would be "this is so much fun!" Which reduces self-inflicted pressure to zero.
Doogie said exactly this after walk-off #3 -- that he loved hitting with the game on the line.
On the other side of the ledger (as Johnny Most used to say) ... Xander Bogaerts, who is killing NL pitchers, has had 9 PA with Leverage 2.0 or above and has made 9 outs: a single, a walk, and two GDP's. This is his 3rd straight year with this problem.
Being conscientious is an important element of "makeup." If Doogie had it as a strength he would never have put out on the extra weight that cratered his defense last year. Xander is having another outstanding year on defense, which means he worked at it in the off-season despite the big contract.
But it's a trait that can lead to putting pressure on yourself to succeed. And failing because you put too much pressure on yourself of course can lead to feeling more pressure. The possibility that Xander might struggle to to get out of this doom loop was, I thin, a factor in the team's approach to his contract extension.
Verdugo, meanwhile, is 4 for 6 with 2 BB and a HR in his 8 most important PA (LI > 2.2). That includes the 3 walk-offs, of course.
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