SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
5/15-5/17 Red Sox vs. Mariners Series Thread
|
Post by cmax on May 17, 2023 6:33:30 GMT -5
David Arias was kind of mediocre in Minn. Before having one last decent season that caught the eye of the Red Sox. "Literally the player to be named later." And another incredible contribution to the Red Sox by Pedro - first to encourage Theo to sign Ortiz, then to insist Grady Little play him when he pitched and generally more.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 17, 2023 7:45:03 GMT -5
Pitch modeling had Sherriff and Garza as great last night, Winckowski really bad
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,497
|
Post by nomar on May 17, 2023 7:52:17 GMT -5
Trying to find examples of late blooming OFs. Cedric Mullins played parts of 3 seasons before breaking out in which he never had an xwOBA over .275. Then there’s JD Martinez and to some extent Renfroe too. Hopefully Duran has built a foundation now that he can call upon whenever things get rough.
|
|
briam
Veteran
Posts: 1,180
|
Post by briam on May 17, 2023 10:26:35 GMT -5
The thing I can’t wrap my head around is how Duran is suddenly a great defensive CF (87th percentile OAA). We’ve seen guys make swing adjustments, especially with a great track record in the minors, and become much better hitters but I can’t remember a guy going from borderline unplayable to great in CF.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,331
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on May 17, 2023 10:49:03 GMT -5
The thing I can’t wrap my head around is how Duran is suddenly a great defensive CF (87th percentile OAA). We’ve seen guys make swing adjustments, especially with a great track record in the minors, and become much better hitters but I can’t remember a guy going from borderline unplayable to great in CF. This is a good point, I had always thought if given a chance that Duran's bat was going to be ML caliber for a CF but perhaps not a COF. My big concern was with his defense, if he couldn't at least play a passable CF I wasn't sure what the likelihood he could stick around the ML or certainly not in Boston but his defensive revelation has really changed his possible outlook to me. Let's hope it is not a mirage and he can continue his breakout because if so that can be a huge boost to this team not just this year but going forward. Heck let's say he comes back to earth a little bit and is just an "average" CF, considering he's cost controlled for the next several seasons that can really open up the piggybank for the rest of the team if that possible hole in CF can be filled the next few seasons by him. Especially considering the OF FAs this coming year don't inspire a whole lot of confidence to me.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on May 17, 2023 11:20:44 GMT -5
The thing I can’t wrap my head around is how Duran is suddenly a great defensive CF (87th percentile OAA). We’ve seen guys make swing adjustments, especially with a great track record in the minors, and become much better hitters but I can’t remember a guy going from borderline unplayable to great in CF. This is a good point, I had always thought if given a chance that Duran's bat was going to be ML caliber for a CF but perhaps not a COF. My big concern was with his defense, if he couldn't at least play a passable CF I wasn't sure what the likelihood he could stick around the ML or certainly not in Boston but his defensive revelation has really changed his possible outlook to me. Let's hope it is not a mirage and he can continue his breakout because if so that can be a huge boost to this team not just this year but going forward. Heck let's say he comes back to earth a little bit and is just an "average" CF, considering he's cost controlled for the next several seasons that can really open up the piggybank for the rest of the team if that possible hole in CF can be filled the next few seasons by him. Especially considering the OF FAs this coming year don't inspire a whole lot of confidence to me. You know, looking at the very sad free agent class for position players, I think it's possible that not a single one of them would actually upgrade the Red Sox' roster from what they have now. The one possible exception might be Harrison Bader, but if Duran really can manage to settle in as a cheap 2 WAR player (or better...?) that wouldn't be worth the investment (and I suspect he's staying with the Yankees anyways).
I suppose if they have faith in Story to play SS they could get Kolten Wong or Adam Frazier for 2B. If that's an upgrade on Valdez/Arroyo/Hamilton...
ADD: Or, well, there's that Ohtani guy who I suppose could help at DH.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,331
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on May 17, 2023 11:32:18 GMT -5
This is a good point, I had always thought if given a chance that Duran's bat was going to be ML caliber for a CF but perhaps not a COF. My big concern was with his defense, if he couldn't at least play a passable CF I wasn't sure what the likelihood he could stick around the ML or certainly not in Boston but his defensive revelation has really changed his possible outlook to me. Let's hope it is not a mirage and he can continue his breakout because if so that can be a huge boost to this team not just this year but going forward. Heck let's say he comes back to earth a little bit and is just an "average" CF, considering he's cost controlled for the next several seasons that can really open up the piggybank for the rest of the team if that possible hole in CF can be filled the next few seasons by him. Especially considering the OF FAs this coming year don't inspire a whole lot of confidence to me. You know, looking at the very sad free agent class for position players, I think it's possible that not a single one of them would actually upgrade the Red Sox' roster from what they have now. The one possible exception might be Harrison Bader, but if Duran really can manage to settle in as a cheap 2 WAR player (or better...?) that wouldn't be worth the investment (and I suspect he's staying with the Yankees anyways).
I suppose if they have faith in Story to play SS they could get Kolten Wong or Adam Frazier for 2B. If that's an upgrade on Valdez/Arroyo/Hamilton...
ADD: Or, well, there's that Ohtani guy who I suppose could help at DH.
It's for sure an ugly FA class at least for position players, there are a few interesting pitchers. Suppose the good thing is the Sox offense should be strong for the next couple years at least in my opinion and they certainly can use a SP or two. I don't really see the Sox being players on Ohtani for what he's going to cost but you never know and past him I'd like to add Urias or Nola. A guy that could pay dividends both this year and next with a player option would be a trade for Tim Anderson, he'd be a nice bridge to Mayer. That being said we may be looking at the Sox core for the next year and a half offensively of Rafi, Casas, Story, Yoshi, Verdugo, Duran, Wong/McGuire. Would just leave a DH/LF and SS/2nd as the primary holes to fill this offseason and like you said who knows, Valdez/Arroyo/Hamilton may be the answer at MI anyway.
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on May 17, 2023 11:33:05 GMT -5
Kelenic. He was terrible and given many chances. This year bang. Another guy I can think of is Jose Batista. Didn’t do much. And all of a sudden mega star. Batista was ahem different. Its been implied over the years that his batting stance was "enhanced" but thats never been proven. He went from a guy who was an okay minor leaguer and a utility guy with the Pirates to an elite power bat. Reminds me a bit of Edgar Martinez’s career path: Nothing special for his first couple years, then developed into a great hitter in his late 20’s before transforming(cough cough) into a power hitting monster in his early 30’s.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 17, 2023 12:03:37 GMT -5
This is a good point, I had always thought if given a chance that Duran's bat was going to be ML caliber for a CF but perhaps not a COF. My big concern was with his defense, if he couldn't at least play a passable CF I wasn't sure what the likelihood he could stick around the ML or certainly not in Boston but his defensive revelation has really changed his possible outlook to me. Let's hope it is not a mirage and he can continue his breakout because if so that can be a huge boost to this team not just this year but going forward. Heck let's say he comes back to earth a little bit and is just an "average" CF, considering he's cost controlled for the next several seasons that can really open up the piggybank for the rest of the team if that possible hole in CF can be filled the next few seasons by him. Especially considering the OF FAs this coming year don't inspire a whole lot of confidence to me. You know, looking at the very sad free agent class for position players, I think it's possible that not a single one of them would actually upgrade the Red Sox' roster from what they have now. The one possible exception might be Harrison Bader, but if Duran really can manage to settle in as a cheap 2 WAR player (or better...?) that wouldn't be worth the investment (and I suspect he's staying with the Yankees anyways). The Korean OF that announced he is getting posted, Jung Hoo Lee, who I suspected the Sox would throw a lot of money at, is having a real bad season too: www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=lee---009jun
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 17, 2023 12:25:53 GMT -5
Batista was ahem different. Its been implied over the years that his batting stance was "enhanced" but thats never been proven. He went from a guy who was an okay minor leaguer and a utility guy with the Pirates to an elite power bat. Reminds me a bit of Edgar Martinez’s career path: Nothing special for his first couple years, then developed into a great hitter in his late 20’s before transforming(cough cough) into a power hitting monster in his early 30’s. That story needs to be broadened a little. He raked on his first shot at 24, and was OK on his second chance at 25. He started a little slowly on his third go while absolutely destroying the Pacific Coast League when he was sent back down in each of those years. The Mariners should have simply put him in the lineup those seasons. Instead he didn't get a full time shot till he was 27, the so-called peak for players. Didn't matter as he wrecked major league pitching from then on. His game prep was legendary as he figured out how to overcome a life long eye problem of all things! The Mariners buried his production in the minors when they could have used that bat in Seattle. He's the best right-handed bat I've ever watched.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on May 17, 2023 12:28:24 GMT -5
Reminds me a bit of Edgar Martinez’s career path: Nothing special for his first couple years, then developed into a great hitter in his late 20’s before transforming(cough cough) into a power hitting monster in his early 30’s. That story needs to be broadened a little. He raked on his first shot at 24, and was OK on his second chance at 25. He started a little slowly on his third go while absolutely destroying the Pacific Coast League when he was sent back down in each of those years. The Mariners should have simply put him in the lineup those seasons. Instead he didn't get a full time shot till he was 27, the so-called peak for players. Didn't matter as he wrecked major league pitching from then on. His game prep was legendary as he figured out how to overcome a life long eye problem of all things! The Mariners buried his production in the minors when they could have used that bat in Seattle. He's the best right-handed bat I've ever watched. Wow. That is high praise. Better than Manny?
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on May 17, 2023 13:28:47 GMT -5
Kiké starting at SS today. I simply don't understand this logic by Cora. Put him @ 2B where he's less of a defensive liability and put Reyes @ SS...
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on May 17, 2023 13:32:23 GMT -5
I think it should also be noted that though it's a small sample size (22 ABs), Kiké's hitting line is .333/.364/.476 when he's playing 2B. When playing SS, it's .202/.273/.303...
It's so obvious that he's way worse off at the plate when playing SS as well.
And for those curious, he's hitting .286/.318/.429 when playing CF, so it's clear this isn't some anomaly.
|
|
briam
Veteran
Posts: 1,180
|
Post by briam on May 17, 2023 13:51:07 GMT -5
I think it should also be noted that though it's a small sample size (22 ABs), Kiké's hitting line is .333/.364/.476 when he's playing 2B. When playing SS, it's .202/.273/.303...
It's so obvious that he's way worse off at the plate when playing SS as well.
And for those curious, he's hitting .286/.318/.429 when playing CF, so it's clear this isn't some anomaly.
Kiké is statistically the worst defensive regular at SS in baseball, itâs pretty much indefensible. Heâs Coraâs guy, no other real explanation.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on May 17, 2023 14:27:34 GMT -5
Verdugo RF Turner 1B Refsnyder LF Devers 3B Yoshida DH K. Hernández SS Reyes 2B Duran CF Wong C
SP Bello
|
|
|
Post by oldfaithful2019 on May 17, 2023 15:27:35 GMT -5
I think it should also be noted that though it's a small sample size (22 ABs), Kiké's hitting line is .333/.364/.476 when he's playing 2B. When playing SS, it's .202/.273/.303...
It's so obvious that he's way worse off at the plate when playing SS as well.
And for those curious, he's hitting .286/.318/.429 when playing CF, so it's clear this isn't some anomaly.
Kiké is statistically the worst defensive regular at SS in baseball, itâs pretty much indefensible. Heâs Coraâs guy, no other real explanation. Yet Kiki is at SS tonight and batting 2 spots ahead of Duran in the lineup. Masa is not going to see any good pitches tonight. I'm thinking that batting Kiki right behind Duran so he can move him over to 3rd with less that two out and playing 2nd so Reyes can keep throwing leather at SS might have been an option.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,646
|
Post by cdj on May 17, 2023 16:35:45 GMT -5
Verdugo RF Turner 1B Refsnyder LF Devers 3B Yoshida DH K. Hernández SS Reyes 2B Duran CF Wong C SP Bello Don’t know why they wouldn’t just do Reyes at SS and Kikè at 2B
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,497
|
Post by nomar on May 17, 2023 17:01:10 GMT -5
Once Mondesi or Story come back, I’m all for a 3 team trade sending Kiké out for a rental arm (Monty maybe if STL is out of it).
|
|
|
Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 17, 2023 17:15:22 GMT -5
Garza has good stuff. I hope he gets a good look They will both get good looks as Sherriff and Garza both have options remaining for the 2023 season.
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on May 17, 2023 17:22:16 GMT -5
Reminds me a bit of Edgar Martinez’s career path: Nothing special for his first couple years, then developed into a great hitter in his late 20’s before transforming(cough cough) into a power hitting monster in his early 30’s. That story needs to be broadened a little. He raked on his first shot at 24, and was OK on his second chance at 25. He started a little slowly on his third go while absolutely destroying the Pacific Coast League when he was sent back down in each of those years. The Mariners should have simply put him in the lineup those seasons. Instead he didn't get a full time shot till he was 27, the so-called peak for players. Didn't matter as he wrecked major league pitching from then on. His game prep was legendary as he figured out how to overcome a life long eye problem of all things! The Mariners buried his production in the minors when they could have used that bat in Seattle. He's the best right-handed bat I've ever watched. He was a great hitter, for sure, and is a HOFer, so it’s all old news now. I was referring to his sudden(and, frankly, unusual) power stroke that he found in 1995 at age 32. He went from an elite hitter to superhuman seemingly overnight. I always thought he was one of the more obvious juicers as a result(especially given the era).
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on May 17, 2023 17:25:55 GMT -5
I think it should also be noted that though it's a small sample size (22 ABs), KikÃÂÃÂÃÂé's hitting line is .333/.364/.476 when he's playing 2B. When playing SS, it's .202/.273/.303...
It's so obvious that he's way worse off at the plate when playing SS as well.
And for those curious, he's hitting .286/.318/.429 when playing CF, so it's clear this isn't some anomaly.
KikÃÂé is statistically the worst defensive regular at SS in baseball, itÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs pretty much indefensible. HeÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs CoraÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs guy, no other real explanation. Isnât Kiké married to Coraâs sister or something ? Or vice versa?? I swear there is some familial thing between the 2 of them. Regardless, Cora will ride or die with Kiké. We know this. He gets credit for trying to do the job, but heâs just awful and a true negative when heâs there.
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on May 17, 2023 17:30:09 GMT -5
KikÃÂé is statistically the worst defensive regular at SS in baseball, itÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs pretty much indefensible. HeÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs CoraÃÂâÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs guy, no other real explanation. Isnât Kiké married to Coraâs sister or something ? Or vice versa?? I swear there is some familial thing between the 2 of them. Regardless, Cora will ride or die with Kiké. We know this. He gets credit for trying to do the job, but heâs just awful and a true negative when heâs there. Whoa. Why did that post like that? Yikes.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 17, 2023 17:48:45 GMT -5
That story needs to be broadened a little. He raked on his first shot at 24, and was OK on his second chance at 25. He started a little slowly on his third go while absolutely destroying the Pacific Coast League when he was sent back down in each of those years. The Mariners should have simply put him in the lineup those seasons. Instead he didn't get a full time shot till he was 27, the so-called peak for players. Didn't matter as he wrecked major league pitching from then on. His game prep was legendary as he figured out how to overcome a life long eye problem of all things! The Mariners buried his production in the minors when they could have used that bat in Seattle. He's the best right-handed bat I've ever watched. Wow. That is high praise. Better than Manny? Absolutely... but don't just take it from me:
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,646
|
Post by cdj on May 17, 2023 17:53:57 GMT -5
Once Mondesi or Story come back, I’m all for a 3 team trade sending Kiké out for a rental arm (Monty maybe if STL is out of it). Kikè can just go back to being a super utility and playing strong OF defense, they’re not going to move him out unless they are completely out of it. Even then I’m not sure
|
|
|
Post by benogliviesbrother on May 17, 2023 18:05:27 GMT -5
Pivetta’s ERA is over 6 since last July. There ain’t a ton of value in eating innings if your ERA is 6+ He kept the team in the game? He blew a 4-0 lead in 3 pitches lol It was very predictable. As soon as the game was 4-2 we all knew what was coming. It was just a question of how the Mariners tied it up. Pivetta might be best used as a reliever, the problem is that the Sox have Houck who would also be used best as a reliever since he struggles through the lineup second time around. Whitlock has great stuff but can't stay healthy, so he might also be a good reliever.... Anyways you get the point. The Sox have a couple of starters who might not belong in a major league rotation with no help on the horizon. Buckle up I did not know what was coming. Am I doing something wrong here? Is there like a chain email or text or something where all the fans collaborate on what's coming next?
|
|
|